Navy photos of Submarine USS San Francisco in Dry Dock (you won't believe the extent of damage!)

U.S. Navy ^

[Boot Hill]

The amount of damage is simply staggering!

That this boat ever made it back to port is a tribute to its designers, builders, and especially to the crew and captain. How does America keep finding men like these?

High resolution version here

High resolution version here

[Conspiracy Guy]

Amazing. I had no idea it was like this. The captain and crew should be given awards for getting this sub back to port with most hands unharmed. What a well designed ship.

[Robe]

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[loupdennui]

My cousin was on that sub and from his first person account of what happened, not enough measures were really taken. Granted it could have been much worse. But even things bolted down went flying, leaving huge dents where they hit the walls...I'm just thankful that so many survived when there was potential for so much worse.

[WildTurkey]

HEY! Watch it! :-)

Sayeth the ST to his buddy in the shower ...

[1Old Pro]

Yes, the drivers are harnessed for just this reason.

Thanks for the info.

[passingthought]

#407 is poor a fake that can be spotted a mile away. The chief doesn't have a beer gut and no coffee cup.


THIS IS THE NEW NAVY LOL

[Eaker]

Ping

[IonImplantGuru]

I haven't heard too much about this story. How did the sub hit the underwater mountain? Is the captain facing charges?

An extensive accounting of the original story, along with a running Q&A and discussion by Freeper/Submariners (there are a number of us!), will give anyone interested a good education. The thread is at:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1316627/posts

A thread on the navigation aspects of this near disaster is at:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1321233/posts

The very short answer to your specific questions is that they were submerged at about 500 feet, going Ahead Flank (30+ knots or more than 35 mph) and they hit an uncharted seamount, not quite head on. Their speed was nearly instantaneously reduced to about 4 knots and they made an emergency surface successfully and managed to drive the sub back to Guam (some 300+ miles) under their own power.

The current charts they were using showed nothing but deep water (6,000 feet or more)anywhere near their desired track. But this region of the world's oceans has not been surveyed to great detail - unlike areas that contain major sealanes, or areas near the continental coasts and most of the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans, which saw plenty of cold war sub activity.

The skipper, CDR Kevin Mooney, has been 'reassigned' but has NOT been charged with anything. The reassignment is pretty standard in a major event like this, as the skipper will need to devote a ton of time in the months to come to the thorough investigation which will be made. Since being a captain of a US Navy ship is a 24/7 job in and of itself, it would be idiotic to expect him to handle both tasks at once.

As stated elsewhere in this thread, in my opinion everyone on this boat - including the skipper - were both incredibly lucky and oustandingly trained and commanded, to have survived this event! 15 or 20 feet to the left and that seamount would still be unknown; 15 or 20 feet to the right, we would have lost one submarine and its entire crew... and we still might not know there was an underwater mouintain there.

- One more Freeper submarine veteran.

[Submarine Veteran]

The damage although quite sever is repairable. The Submarine will see many more days underway. I am thankful to God that no more well killed and that the rest returned home safely. They could have lost everyone.

[IonImplantGuru]

The sub is salvageable. IIRC, the reactor stuff is in the back of the sub. But it depends on if it is cost-effective to strip out the front half of the sub and repair/replace it. It also depends on if there is a political will to fix it.

I'm not so sure; only a certified marine engineer who is a sub specialist can really make the call. But consider this: EVERYTHING inside the pressure hull specially mounted (ie, using soundmounts) so that it 'floats' relative to the pressure hull - this is to minimize the chance of trasmitting any crew or machinery noise into the surrounding water where an opponent could use it to locate the boat. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the sound mounting was trashed in this event.

- A Freeper sub-vet

[WildTurkey]

According to memory the charts were very deficient to the point that a prudent man would not travel on this heading at flank speed. I believe that this issue was hashed out pretty well by others. If you really cannot find a reference to this I will do your research for you this one time. The way flame wars on FR are typically started is someone making statements that they either cannot back up or have not researched, not by calling them on it as I have done.

I am waiting.

[Eaker]

The officials said the main chart on the submarine, prepared in 1989 and never revised, did not show any potential obstacles within three miles of the crash. They said the incident happened in such a desolate area - 360 miles southeast of Guam - that updating their depiction of the undersea terrain was never considered a priority.

The new information about the charting flaws also illustrates what many experts say is a broader danger not only to submarines but also to many surface ships. At the same time, it provides a glimpse into the arcane task of plotting an undersea world that in some areas is still more mysterious than the surfaces of Mars or Venus.

There you go, there is a reference.

Now I am going to wait for the details from the inquiry and will leave any further guessing to you.

[Eaker]

The reference and additional details can be found here.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Yep.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Nope.

Those tiles are buckled because the underlying 1/2" thick steel plates covering the MBTS's is itself buckled. If only the tiles were buckled, then you wouldn't see the outlines of the frames inside the MBT's that are still relatively straight.

Each buckle is due to compressive failure due to force from the left (port side) due to the glancing blow from the collision. So the entire bow was forced to the right as the boat recoiled up and to the right when it hit the cliff. The frames are 6" thick (in that area) and are separated from the pressure hull.

BUT - The port side torpedo tubes and all of the MBT3B is directly attached to the pressure hull and the tanks inside the hull.

So driving the torpedo tubes aft (even only 1-2" is enough to put extreme pressure and deformation into the "perfect" cylinder shape you need to withstand crush depth, and nearby shock and explosions.

The torpedo tubes (in particular) because their long thick "stiff" tubes would tend to act like nails being driven back into the pressure on the port side.

[AlanK]

I used to work on submarines (688 class) at a shipyard. No, it isn't a total loss. Most of what you see missing is a fiberglass sonar dome. There is a little hull damage, but it isn't as bad as it looks. It could be decommissioned due to the cost of repairs and recertification of systems to dive the boat. Generally, the Navy has too much pride to not repair it.

[IonImplantGuru]

Might I humbly suggest a 30 foot long forward facing "curb feeler" tied to an automatic ballast-blowing computer to potentially avoid these sorts of situations if we ever again have to run at high speed in unknown waters?

At the speed they were going (at least 35 mph) one covers 51 feet per second. That curb feeler would get jammed up your nose before you could get 8 gallons out of your ballast tanks.

Clever thought though!

- Freeper sub vet

[IonImplantGuru]

"It WAS known that there were numerous pinnacles and undersea mountains in the area. Given this, going at flank speed (and therefore being nearly blind ahead) does not seem "prudent". The review will doubtless bring this up."

If this was a normal transit route employed by numerouse submarines previously (heck, maybe the SF had done it before) and your OPS ordered you to transit and gave you the schedule, you would be toast if you didn't get there in time.

Precisely, WT! Early threads brought out that this transit was probably run 1 or 2 times a year by various boats. Don't know if the S. F. had done it before.

My take is that all of the previous boats were just lucky. I think the guy you were responding to is off base; i.e., define "in the area". To my knowledge, based on inputs from other threads, the charts showed nothing less than deep water for at least miles on either side of the track in the region.

My experience is that a skipper would have to have very good reasons for NOT following the precise depth/course/speed ordered by OPS - in this case SUBPAC Yokosuka.

A fellow ex-nuke

[SS Guy]

BUT - The port side torpedo tubes and all of the MBT3B is directly attached to the pressure hull and the tanks inside the hull. Basically true. What you see in the pictures is not the TT outer doors though, these are the "Shutters". A fairing that closes off the outer door aperture to streamline the hull. The shutters aren't necessarily attached to the tubes. When you want to fire you flood and equalize the tube then open the shutters and then the outer door. SS Guy

[WildTurkey]

If this sub had been 30 feet to right, we would still not know about the mount.