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2006 defense budget plan eliminates Navy aircraft carrier
Stars and Stripes ^ | February 8, 2005 | Jon R. Anderson

Posted on 02/07/2005 4:23:52 PM PST by Former Military Chick

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To: clawrence3

Heck, I turned down a chance to go to the Academy! The single biggest mistake of my life. Sadly they asked me in bootcamp, and the idea of 4 more years of bootcamp didn't sound so hot.


61 posted on 02/07/2005 6:48:00 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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To: Former Military Chick
Whichever carrier is cut, its corresponding air wing will remain.

An air wing without a carrier to base it on? That doesn't make much sense.

62 posted on 02/07/2005 6:49:15 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: DevSix
Agree with you there - but the F-18F is not the plane to replace it with - An updated F-14D would have come in around $40-45 Million (per).

And you still have to add in the higher maintenance cost. The high cost of maintenance for the Tom isn't because of it's age, it's because of it's design.

Here's an example:

The engine fire extinguishers require inspection during every phased inspection (about every 100 hours.) In order to do a functional test, the entire overwing panel must be removed. This takes about 10 man-hours to accomplish, plus, because it's a flight control surface, requires a functional check flight. That means that the bird can't fly until the weather is near perfect.

On the F/A-18, the fire extinguisher inspection requires opening of the the engine daily doors: 10 minutes.

Want another one? Okay!

The F-14 air conditioning turbine lasts about 400 flight hours. Because it's wedged back in behind the intake, it takes about 15 man-hours to replace.

The F/A-18 turbine requires replacement about every 750 flight hours. It's located on the belly of the aircraft and can be changed out in about 2 hours.

Operationally, the F-14 is a great aircraft. But operations isn't the only thing to be considered.

A great airplane does nothing if it's parked in the hangar for maintenance.

63 posted on 02/07/2005 6:50:12 PM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: clawrence3
The F/A-22 Raptor is actually a 6th generation plane - even with drones, we will always need manned fighters and that plane was our best hope for 1 standard plane across all branches.

The F-22 is Air Force, not "all branches".

Perhaps you're thinking of the F-35, the Joint Strike Fighter?

64 posted on 02/07/2005 6:52:34 PM PST by jackbill (``)
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To: middie

Thanks for your service and your opinions. Have one question for you. I thought a while ago we were short on planes and pilots (and I assume all the aviation ratings) and couldn't fit out a carrier properly. Was that a false story? I've heard they are cutting back on creating new pilots, perhaps there is some logic here.


65 posted on 02/07/2005 6:52:49 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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To: FreedomCalls
There's already one of those.

CVWR-20, located at NAS Atlanta.

One F-14 squadron, located in Fort Worth, TX
Two F/A-18 squadrons, one in New Orleans and one in Atlanta.
Two E-2C squadrons, one in Atlanta and one in Norfolk.
One EA-6B squadron, located in D.C.
When they deploy to the boat two more squadrons attach to them, one helo squadron and a Marine F/A-18 squadron.

66 posted on 02/07/2005 6:58:18 PM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: ProudVet77

Can you imagine how proud his mama and I would be?!

P.S. Jackbill - I don't like the JSF - I'll be right back with a link to the Navy Raptor.


67 posted on 02/07/2005 6:58:20 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: ProudVet77

We shouldn't be cutting our carriers period. Some Army hawks think they are unnecessary at all but that is because they are complete morons.

The truth is since the majority of the nations in this world don't have nuclear weapons the aircraft carrier is not an obsolete defense item. WWII was won by naval air power.

Yes our long range bombers can reach other nations, but they are not invincible and they are a whole lot more expensive than the jets we launch from a carrier. Plus, when a carrier is hit it can be repaired.

The truth is we need to be building 10 more carriers to replace our aging fleet. Ideally, as the first line of defense the navy should have at least 20 carriers.

There are two growing threats. The Moslems and the Chineese. The Chineese have begun acquiring carriers for a confrontation with the United States. The current regime in China has plans to attack the United States and would if it could get past our fleet. It is currently building up its armed forces and has already established a presence in Panama gaurding the canal.

It is imperative for the United States to rebuild the navy, increase the size of the navy, and enforce the Monroe Doctrine by inviting China to stay away from Latin America.


68 posted on 02/07/2005 7:05:21 PM PST by FederalistVet (Hitler was a liberal!)
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To: FederalistVet
The traditional reason for even having a carrier is to project power. To take airplanes close enough to the enemy so they can hurt them.
The world is different now. Mid-air refueling permits us to go anywhere, anytime. We also have bases all over the place. If the ChiComs want to play, we have several bases in Japan. We also have Diego Garcia. And Guam. And in a pinch just about any civilian airport we want. So we can deliver the punch without a carrier. It would take at least 7 days to sortie one carrier to China. In GWI the Navy used ground bases in SA to launch attacks.
Hey, I'm for a strong Navy. But the cost is not just for the carrier. You have all the supporting cast. A frigate or two, a cruiser or two, a destroyer or two, and toss in at least one nuke sub and an oiler.
69 posted on 02/07/2005 7:13:45 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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To: clawrence3
What was the other thread discussing "giving" the Aussies an aircraft carrier or two?

You want real "out of the box" thinking? How about selling a carrier to the Japs? ;-)

70 posted on 02/07/2005 7:23:57 PM PST by glorgau
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To: ProudVet77

The carrier has the ability to hide. Land based airports can't hide. It is important to have carriers. It forces the enemy to reconsider an attack on the mainland just like our subs.


71 posted on 02/07/2005 7:26:03 PM PST by FederalistVet (Hitler was a liberal!)
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To: Knitebane

Are those reserve units?


72 posted on 02/07/2005 7:30:40 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FederalistVet
Trust me, a carrier can't hide.
Ask any submariner.
Also unless they go total EMCON, their air traffic radar can be heard 1000s of miles away, and probably from space.
If we are talking about a conventional war, the ChiComs do not have the ability to put every land based airport out of business. They may knock out most runways in Taiwan, but our bases are protected. In fact once we deliver the PAC-3s to Taiwan, their runways will be fairly safe.
73 posted on 02/07/2005 7:37:42 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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To: ProudVet77
The traditional reason for even having a carrier is to project power. To take airplanes close enough to the enemy so they can hurt them.
The world is different now. Mid-air refueling permits us to go anywhere, anytime. We also have bases all over the place

Not this smeg again. The light blue were running that line against the Brit/Australian navy carrier force 40 years ago.

Come to thinh of it, there was also the arguement that time that the USN didn't need Mediterranean carriers because the USAF could dominate the region from Wheelus Air Base in Libya.

74 posted on 02/07/2005 10:48:51 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Intelligent Design is a theory, like "whatever will be, will be" is a prophecy)
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To: FreedomCalls

CVWR-20 is a Reserve air wing.

The original idea during the drawdowns of the 90s was to have the Kennedy be a reserve/training carrier and CVWR-20 be a corresponding reserve wing. When they reactivated the Kennedy, the Navy was thus "one active wing too short", so the active air wings hopped and skipped from carrier to carrier when certain carriers went into the yards for overhaul or maintenance. Plans to retain the active wing when scrubbing the Kennedy would thus match up the numbers of active carriers and active air wings. However, I would think that the budgeteers would next go "hmm, they managed all right with one less airwing than carriers...".


75 posted on 02/08/2005 10:46:05 AM PST by libtoken
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To: libtoken

The Navy Times claims that besides the Kennedy, Navy is thinking of moving up the decommissioning of the Belleau Wood, plus decommissioning one of the old LPDs, a cruiser, a sub, and one of the oilers.

What of the people? Navy Times claims that Navy wants to slash the E-5 high-year tenure from 20 to 12-14 years and increase Perform to Serve's reach to hit those with 6 to 10 years of service, to help force out more people. Navy also supposedly wants to bring back early retirement boards, and has budgeted for separation pays, but this would require Congress to approve it. Tell your Sailor friends to start looking into what universities they could afford to go to.

Everything is always deja vu...


76 posted on 02/08/2005 10:56:19 AM PST by libtoken
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To: jackbill
I still think that plane is our best hope for 1 standard plane across all branches. Sorry for the confusion though - I double-checked and, of course, the Navy does not have F/A-22 Raptors yet - I had thought they were further along in trying to get a carrier-based variant, but I guess not (gosh, even my 13-year-old knew that ; )
77 posted on 02/08/2005 11:23:36 AM PST by clawrence3
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To: ProudVet77
The Navy is indeed cutting back on the pilot (not NFO) slots at Pensacola for the next 12 months. The plan is the produce less than 50% of the current class and not pick up the normal pace once again until about 12 months from now. There is a need for NFOs and Marine front and back seaters; not Navy.

The reduction is ostensibly tied to pipeline needs but I am skeptical of that assertion by public affairs officers (they'd assure you that the moon is made of green cheese if the boss said to put that out as the party line--just like the President's press guy).

78 posted on 02/08/2005 1:43:02 PM PST by middie
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To: clawrence3
It's the finest education and self discipline resource, along with the other academies (USMA, USAFA, Coast Guard and Merchant Marine, Kings Point, NY),that any society could have. These institutions are the best buy for the U.S. taxpayer in the entire budget.

If you have a son or daughter interested in one of the academies you should attend college nights at local high schools, write the academy for information and stay informed. As for preparation, the student should be in good general health, be in good physical condition, play sports, become a school leader in something, it doesn't matter what, and be a superior student. He/she should take every math,science and English course offered at the college prep level, study diligently and stay out of trouble. Begining in the 10th grade she/he should take the PSAT, the ACT and the SAT every time it's given.

Young men and women just don't receive an appointment to one of these academies by chance, that is the end result of careful preparation. Inquire of the academies as to the person who represents it in your community as a volunteer liaison officer, they are in every large and small town.

79 posted on 02/08/2005 2:00:19 PM PST by middie
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To: middie

I have a gut feeling that the UAV for the Navy is further along than advertised. I researching something for another thread I bumped across something about some of the Arleigh Burke getting unmanned submaries on them.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/rms.htm


80 posted on 02/08/2005 2:02:21 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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