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Apple Sets 2-For-1 Stock Split, Stock Up
Reuters | February 11, 2005

Posted on 02/11/2005 9:48:42 PM PST by HAL9000

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To: CurlyDave
You are not figuring in the cost's into the equation. For $499 I can either get the Mac Mini; or a full setup (including a free 17 inch flat panel LCD monitor) from Dell.

If you want to edit home movies, the Mini-Mac is going to be slow; unless you are doing the most basic work. Now, I LIKE the Mac Mini; but first you must understand what it is, and what it is not. It is NOT comparable to a higher powered PC; which many people want to do. Benchmarks will illustrate the difference between processing power, memory bandwidth and limitations imposed by a cheaper design.

But more interesting, is what the Mini-Mac IS. It's small, streamlined for use not only as a central hub for a home theater (small, quiet, DVI port, ethernet, Bluetooth), it will lend itself to using your home theater to send email, send/recieve/record home movies and also accept HDTV movie downloads, as it supports both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD HDTV movie formats; thus competing in the same field as Hollywood Video; but in an area that Hollywood hasn't even began to explore - Broadband movie download rentals. While the video stores will find themselves re-living the Beta/VHS wars; and stocking movie versions in multiple formats (VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD); the Mini-Mac will accept all of them from the internet. Naturally, as one would expect, DCMA will be there to (very short term) prevent people from ripping the material to DVD format. But, this is an revolutionary change in the way we will watch movies.

61 posted on 02/12/2005 10:17:23 AM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: HAL9000
I don't see that, sorry.
62 posted on 02/12/2005 10:17:30 AM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: HAL9000
What's Apples equivalent to MS Exchange and what enterprise IT Director would seriously consider installing it?

MS Entourage, or Mac OS X Mail and iCal, etc.

Those are clients, not servers

What's Apples equivalent to MS SQL Server and what enterprise IT Director would seriously consider installing it?

Oracle 10g.

Apple makes Oracle Server?

What's Apples equivalent to MS AD Domain Controllers and what enterprise IT Director would seriously consider deploying it?

LDAP?

LDAP is "made" by Apple?  Or is it just a protocol?  Maybe you should read up on that.

What's Apples equivalent to MS Office and what enterprise IT Director would seriously consider deploying it?

Office for Windows? Apple iWork?

iWork?  lol

A lot of IT Directors are experiencing a big climbdown in the corporate world lately. They look like fools for wasting valuable resources with all of Microsoft's security problems.

Not really.  Maybe you should stick to what you know.

63 posted on 02/12/2005 10:32:11 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny (“I know a great deal about the Middle East because I’ve been raising Arabian horses" Patrick Swazey)
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To: Hodar
Now, add Bluetooth and/or ethernet; and you can stream the material in a compressed state from an iTunes-like website; and Mac can compete in the Movie Rental business.

One add: The Mac Mini's Airport Extreme (wifi) allows sharing of content to other Minis, Macs and *gasp* maybe PCs running iTune-like Apple software.

64 posted on 02/12/2005 10:46:54 AM PST by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: Hodar
But more interesting, is what the Mini-Mac IS. It's small, streamlined for use not only as a central hub for a home theater (small, quiet, DVI port, ethernet, Bluetooth), it will lend itself to using your home theater to send email, send/recieve/record home movies and also accept HDTV movie downloads, as it supports both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD HDTV movie formats; thus competing in the same field as Hollywood Video; but in an area that Hollywood hasn't even began to explore - Broadband movie download rentals.

Hollywood has already started "legal" Broadband movie downloads but only for the MS community.
Example: Movielink

65 posted on 02/12/2005 10:54:18 AM PST by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: general_re

The stats at the site you link to show weird things like Firefox with a 20% share, and Linux with a larger share than Mac. It's not representative of the universe.


66 posted on 02/12/2005 11:02:00 AM PST by HAL9000
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Not really.  Maybe you should stick to what you know.

Sorry, that's the best I could do in 60 seconds. Lunch was being served.

Mac OS X Server includes server software like Sendmail, MySQL, etc. Apple does sell a database system called FileMaker. But for the enterprise, Oracle 10g and Sybase are the best solutions, and Apple has wisely decided to support those systems rather than reinvent the wheel. Several other Mac OS X Server solutions are listed here.

Unfortunately, a lot of IT directors are becoming dinosaurs in the enterprise. Their prestige is declining in the corporation because of the bad decisions they've made. They foolishly believe that clinging to Microsoft will save them - but it won't.

67 posted on 02/12/2005 11:22:48 AM PST by HAL9000
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To: Hodar

"It's too slow to do movie editing, or graphic art stuff."

Not true - a G4 tower with similar specs was considered top of the line before the G5 shipped, and plenty of pros did high end work on them. A Mini will run the entire Adobe CS suite just fine (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat), and I run all that at work, and more, working on large (300 megs) files on a 400 mhz G4 Tower.

Drop a gig of ram in the Mini, it'll run Photoshop and the Macromedia web stuff like a champ.

A lot of office managers and art directors I know are looking at the Mini in a big way for production machines in prepress and design shops. No, the Mini will not be a good Maya machine, but very few consumer computers are - it'll run Maya, but if you want to work relatively painlessly, you need a pro machine, a G5 or Pentium 4 with all the bells and whistles. (It will run Strata3D fine, and my fave, Sketch-up)

As for games, it should run everything acceptably, except for the high-end ones, like Doom3, which you need a $3000 machine to run, even on the Windows side. I've been reading people are playing games like World Of Warcraft and Sim City4 with no issues.

The way I see it, look at it like a low-end Powerbook - if it'll run there, a Mini will run it.

Of course, it's pretty slow compared to the dual 2 gig G5 I'm typing this on at home. :)

"When you add all this up; I think Apple has a Grand-Slam coming up."

That's where my money is - with Tiger (Mac OS 10.4) being the next piece of the puzzle.


68 posted on 02/12/2005 11:52:30 AM PST by ByDesign
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To: HAL9000
All true, but Microsoft will save them. There is no reason to use a better system when "good enough" will suffice. Apple does not "just" have a database system called FileMaker, it is as powerful as Access yet is easier to use and customize. And don't forget Mac Office. I work on Windows 98, Windows XP, Mac OS 9, and Mac OS X. All in the area of graphics and video. I run Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, PageMaker, Acrobat, Publisher, Xpress, and Freehand in addition to Final Cut Pro. The PC's are all "faster" than the Mac but I always revert to the Mac when problems arise on the PC's. I always feel I have to apologize for not having problems with my Mac because people (who thought they were buying the "reasonably priced" system) have such a large investment in hardware and software. I work in a shop that has 4 PC's. I own the Mac. At the shop, they paid the same for their new XP machine as I paid for my Mac (and they got it from a discounter). But they are always calling a high paid "computer guy" to help them fix all sorts of problems...that I don't have. Network problems, virus problems, crashing, etc. Yet they cling to these machines like they were sent from on high. I can't figure it out, but I can't figure out blue states either.
69 posted on 02/12/2005 12:15:41 PM PST by Leonard210
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To: HAL9000

W3Schools' statistics are based only on visitors to its site, thus the number distribution.


70 posted on 02/12/2005 12:37:09 PM PST by Terpfen (New Democrat Party motto: les enfant terribles)
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To: ByDesign

Just one note: Doom 3 doesn't require a $3000 machine to run properly. Sure, it'll take every bit of power you can throw at it and crave more, but its minimum specs are actually playable. In most cases, the few people who needed to upgrade merely needed more RAM.


71 posted on 02/12/2005 12:39:24 PM PST by Terpfen (New Democrat Party motto: les enfant terribles)
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To: HAL9000

Bad stats are better than no stats - if you have info to the contrary, I'd like to have a look at it.


72 posted on 02/12/2005 12:56:16 PM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: ByDesign
Drop a gig of ram in the Mini, it'll run Photoshop and the Macromedia web stuff like a champ.

But, *IF* it runs like the G4 tower, as you have indicated; then Apple has slit it's own throat. Why would anyone buy a $499 Mac (ie. ~3-6% margins) instead of a $2,000 Mac (with 15-30% margins)? So, in laymans numbers, Apple will have to sell 20 Mini-Macs (~$15 profit) for each $2,000 Mac (~$300 profit). When you consider the 20x ramp in labor costs, due to production, coupled with reduced sales of the more expensive Macs; I foresee a catestrophy coming.

Jobs is no fool. That is my primary reasoning for questioning the performance statements you have made. Because, if the performance is as you state, Apple has just committed suicide.

My belief is that the Mini-Mac will be the HDTV answer to rental movies; that the iPod was to iTunes.

73 posted on 02/12/2005 3:28:53 PM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
But, *IF* it runs like the G4 tower, as you have indicated; then Apple has slit it's own throat. Why would anyone buy a $499 Mac (ie. ~3-6% margins) instead of a $2,000 Mac (with 15-30% margins)? So, in laymans numbers, Apple will have to sell 20 Mini-Macs (~$15 profit) for each $2,000 Mac (~$300 profit). When you consider the 20x ramp in labor costs, due to production, coupled with reduced sales of the more expensive Macs; I foresee a catestrophy coming.

Apple has already tapped out publishing / media world (Photoshop users) whereas there are lot of new customers in the consumer electronics market (media hub users). The lesson from the iPod was new market creation was much more valuable to Apple than clinging to a high margin, low sales model. If the publishing / media world doesn't expand or has very little hardware turnover, Apple doesn't grow. What I call the "iPod effect" gives Apple something it didn't have before, product and sales diversity beyond just desktops and laptops. Now Apple has desktop, laptop, servers, iPods, and the Mini (media hub) as product lines and each can follow different economic patterns.

74 posted on 02/13/2005 9:03:15 AM PST by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: jriemer
The lesson from the iPod was new market creation was much more valuable to Apple than clinging to a high margin, low sales model.

Sure, creating a new product type is good; but this doesn't necessarily create growth, unless there is a financial boon to accompany that. Hence, for Apple go cannibalize sales of high margin products with much lower margin components will crush Apple.

Now, if the Mini-Mac is targeted to a unique market niche, and does not perform like the higher end MacIntoshes we have a differnt story entirely. My statement is that the Mini-Mac does NOT compete with the G4 Tower Macs, due to limited performance (slow processor, limited memory, HDD, etc). Others insist that the Mini-Mac is equivalent to G4Towers; which would mean that Apple has just removed the justification to buy a $2,000 Mac with a $499 Mac. Or in other words, Apple saw fit to risk selling 30x more Mini-Macs in volume, than it currently sells in G4 Towers. Unless the Mini-Mac's target is to open a unique market that does not compete against the G4 Tower (Mini-Mac has the H.264 chip), the Mini-Mac will be a bad thing for Apple.

75 posted on 02/13/2005 3:43:33 PM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
Others insist that the Mini-Mac is equivalent to G4Towers; which would mean that Apple has just removed the justification to buy a $2,000 Mac with a $499 Mac.

Apple's publishing and media customer set will not be thrilled about on the Mini-mac's relatively low memory and HD disk specs. IMHO, it's unlikely that someone is going to be running big Photoshop jobs or AVID on the Mini-Mac.

As for the Mini-Mac matching up well with older towers, the amount of RAM can be a limiting factor on the G3s and G4s for getting more out of software in addition to the processor. That's why the G5 towers have 4 or 8GB of maximum memory to keep disk reading and caching to a minimum.

76 posted on 02/13/2005 4:40:42 PM PST by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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