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To: ultima ratio

While I doubt anyone of traditional practice of the faith will disagree with the Holy Father on this issue. I think many of the non-traditionalists are confused as to why we don't jump for joy when JPII gives a little scrap of what used to the norm for Popes.

Many who have never read the lives and pontificates of Pope St. Pius X or Leo XIII or Pius XI, or XII really don't know how different JPII is in a negative way.

What they often hope he will do regarding "cracking down" is what Popes did with regularity and enormous power.

There would never be a need for St. Pius X to even issue such a statement in the twilight of his pontificate. He would've hammered it from the beginning in no subtle terms, just like he did against modernism.

Pius X was so strong that he was stamping out operatic vocal effects during the Mass in Italy when he was Pope. THAT was crisis in the Church in his time. People were ordered NOT to applaud him when he was carried into St. Peter's on the sedia gestatoria out of humility on his part. JPII has got it all backwards, he got rid of the royal marks of the papacy and allows himself to be lauded by the frenzied masses. I don't think he's ever understood the nature of the papacy as well as his predecessors of the first half of the 20th century and before.


60 posted on 02/22/2005 2:33:43 PM PST by Gerard.P (If you've lost your faith, you don't know you've lost it. ---Fr. Malachi Martin R.I.P.)
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To: Gerard.P

I got kicked off a thread on the SSPX for bashing it yesterday.

Please don't use this thread on the Pope to bash him and promote the SSPX. (your posts implies that you are with the group)


66 posted on 02/22/2005 2:40:52 PM PST by ndkos
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To: Gerard.P
Pius X was so strong that he was stamping out operatic vocal effects during the Mass in Italy when he was Pope. THAT was crisis in the Church in his time. People were ordered NOT to applaud him when he was carried into St. Peter's on the sedia gestatoria out of humility on his part. JPII has got it all backwards, he got rid of the royal marks of the papacy and allows himself to be lauded by the frenzied masses. I don't think he's ever understood the nature of the papacy as well as his predecessors of the first half of the 20th century and before.

John Paul II understands the Papacy perfectly. He wears the shoes of the Fisherman, not the tiara of a king.

If Popes are to follow in the footsteps of Him who had nowhere to lay His Head, they are right to rid the Papacy of Triumphalism.

81 posted on 02/22/2005 2:55:30 PM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: Gerard.P
There would never be a need for St. Pius X to even issue such a statement in the twilight of his pontificate. He would've hammered it from the beginning in no subtle terms, just like he did against modernism.

I just finished reading for the third time, Michael Davies' superb book entitled, "Partisans of Error, St. Pius X Against the Modernists." The chronology provides the very fast time line for disposing of the top two miscreants during that segment of history. (E.g. 1903, Pope St. Pius X elected; 1903, five of Loisy's books placed on the Index; 1906, Tyrrell expelled from Jesuits; 1907, The Decree of Lamentabili, Syllabus condemning the errors; Pascendi encyclical condemning Modernism; Tyrrell excommunicated; 1908, Loisy excommunicated.

These actions, in absolutely rapid action, met the pending threats head-on and decapitated the sources of error. It halted what could have been a rampant and massive disintegration of Church authority and leadership at a most fragile time in world history. Pope St. Pius X took the required immediate action, showed the requisite strength of leadership and disposed of the threats.

While I am pleased to read Pope JPII's strong words lambasting homosexual marriage (sic) and his strong condemnation of abortion, I only wish he had started his tenure and continued with forceful action to stop what has been a torrent of scandal inside and outside of the Faith. For example, take the priest homosexual and pedophile abuse scandal that still has not been fully played out. We have yet to see accountability among the ranks of implicated bishops or those bureaucrats in Rome for their complicity and enabling that hid, and ignored, these horrendous corruptions of sin. The recent debacle of GIRM and other liturgical abuses continue as if nothing happened but good during the last forty years. And things only get worse: falling Mass attendance, lack of any sound seminary programs, loss of faith in record numbers, church closings, unprecedented scorn and ridicule heaped upon Church dogma.

Yes, I applaud the Holy Father for his published words during what are likely his waning days. I also pray for him and know the physical pain he has endured since the assassination attempt by the evil empire. I realize, however, the diminished Faith in the World during his time as our leader and what could, nay, should have occurred during this critical period of our history. So many lost souls, so much pain and suffering in this valley of tears, and most importantly in Purgatory and for Eternity because of the lack of pastoral courage and definitive leadership to right the wrongs and deal with Evil.

126 posted on 02/22/2005 5:38:36 PM PST by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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