Jet Flies On With One Engine Out

LA Times ^ | Eric Malnic and Hector Becerra, Times Staff Writers

[dfwddr]

When I bought my ticket, the plane had four working engines. That's exactly the way I want it when I land.

[Young Werther]

Not true.

Today's engines are certified for the life of the airframe! A malfunction is so rare that aborting is not a needed option.

It took awhile but the FAA certified all twin engine aircraft for overwater flight with one engine out since today's engines are so powerful. When I flew in B-52s (H model with biggest thrust) you had 8ea 16,000lb thrust engines. The H models were fan jets so no water augmentation was needed for takeoff at Gross Weight (488,000lbs EWO weight).

Todays twin engine jets carry two engines with over 100,000lbs of thrust PER ENGINE! That's 200,000lbs thrust compared to the B-52s 128,000lbs of thrust for 8 engines.

In 1965 a B-707 was departing LAX for Honolulu. the right outboard engine blew up on climb out and the outer third of the right wing was sheared away. A picture taken by an LA freeway auto motorist showed and aircraft with wing burning which could have been mistaken for a WWII shot of a Japanese Zero buring as it is shot down.The Boeing investigation team arrived within hours. The engineers did their calculations and debriefed the crew. The Lead engineer was surprised at the recovery since he announced that according to his calculations the aircraft "did not have enough wing to fly". The pilot's answer, (a WWII B-17 veteran I believe) was epic. Quote, "Well nobody told me!"

Yes flight is demanding but for every pilot error report many more situations are handled. Google the DC10 crash in K City!!!

[Jorge]

If they don't need four, then why do they have four?

Four engines looks cooler than two.

[Blood of Tyrants]

With all the instrumentation on the engine that suddenly goes to zero and the change in thrust, I find it hard to believe that they didn't notice it.

[Paleo Conservative]

A number of years ago, an L-1011, a fine airplane if there ever was one, lost one on the way to the Bahamas (overheating #2 tail engine). Pilot shut engine down, did a direct abort. THEN found he was losing #1 and #3 wing engines. After they seized, he restarted #2 tail and made a single-engine landing (Thank God). Problem? oil seals on drain screws not reinstalled IIRC. Had he continued on, it very possibly could have killed everyone on board.

That's one of the reasons why maintenance crews are prohibited from changing the oil or performing other maintenance on both engines simultaneously on ETOPS rated aircraft. The problem with that L-1011 was that the same crew made the same mistake when changing the oil on all three engines.

[midnightson]

Redundancy makes for safer flying!

[JOE43270]

Civilians will do this. This U. S. Air Force Airman has seen engines fail when I was on active duty years ago. Our pilots would fly if they had too. If they didn't they would land at the nearest airbase. Guess who got to change the engine?

[Prophet in the wilderness]

From what I saw on a TV show onetime about that DC- 10 crash in 1979 , the AMERICAN AIRLINES maintenance crew used a forklift in a improper manner to remove the engine from that plane.
While lifting the engine in a improper manner with the forklift, the maintenance crew bent the mounting yoke that holds the engine to the wing pylon.
The end result was that the metal on the mounting yoke had " fatigue stress cracks " in the mounting yoke, and when the plane lifted off the engine fell off the plane.

[Samurai_Jack]

Im not disputing that the aircraft COULD HAVE MADE IT...

I am saying that it was irresponsible for this pilot to risk the lives of his aircrew and passengers in this manner, even if the risk is infinitesimal.

These aircraft are built with a high degree of redundancy and overengineered for safety and for the avoidance of litigation.

Aircraft today are built to withstand an enormous number of failure modes. When you see a Red Ex type failure mode like ENGINE FAILURE... you can't take that kind of risk with the passengers. No time to be a cowboy, turn it around and set it down.

[Ditto]

A number of years ago, an L-1011, a fine airplane if there ever was one, lost one on the way to the Bahamas (overheating #2 tail engine). Pilot shut engine down, did a direct abort. THEN found he was losing #1 and #3 wing engines. After they seized, he restarted #2 tail and made a single-engine landing (Thank God). Problem? oil seals on drain screws not reinstalled IIRC. Had he continued on, it very possibly could have killed everyone on board.

If that was the Eastern Airline flight out of Miami, I knew quite a few people on that flight. They were ordered to ditch in Biscayne Bay and the pilot refused and took it into Miami Intl. And from my understanding, he could have landed in Freeport when the 1st engine went out but was told to return to Miami where maintenance would have been easier. The other engines went out on the way back to Miami.

Total maintenance screw-up that damn near cost a lot of lives. Eastern was in it's death throws then and finally went out of business a few years later.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Here is a websight about Airliners
http://www.Airliners.net
Here is their discussion on that incident
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1975963/

[dalereed]

When 747s first came out they lost an engine on one out of every 3 flights, just no one said anything about it. Those birds can fly on 2 as long as they are on opposite wings.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Some of them B - 17 pilots came back home limping with half of the wing gone, or the tail shot up.

[cornfedcowboy]

I know next to nothing about airplanes except that coach sucks and First Class is wonderful.

Ahem, the only difference between first class and coach is 15 feet and you get Diet Cokes 5 minutes before us sapps in the back. Oh yeah, and about three hundred bucks.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

On a 747 with 4 engines , I would be more concerned and worried of a " BIRD INGESTION " than , if the pilot had to shut down a engine because of over heating.
A bird ingestion is more dangerous than if the pilot had to shut down one engine because of a over heating problem.
Tail strikes of the tail of the plane is dangerous, tail strikes are when the pilot " ROTATES " and if the angle of attack ( angle of attack , is when the plane first gets airborne from the runway , and the angle at which the plane is in relation to the runway ) , and if the angle is to steep, the tail will strike or scrap the runway, and can be dangerous.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Unless they can make those drain plugs with permanent oil seals on them. And just make the drain plugs a one time use until they have to change the oil again.