Liberal Lunatic of the Day (3/2/2005)

Liberal Lunacy ^ | 3/2/2005 | Beckwith

[Beckwith]

Bob Herbert, the progressive columnist of the NY Times, writes in his essay, "It's Called Torture ~ As a nation, does the United States have a conscience? Or is anything and everything O.K. in post-9/11 America? If torture and the denial of due process are O.K., why not murder? When the government can just make people vanish - which it can, and which it does - where is the line that we, as a nation, dare not cross? When I interviewed Maher Arar in Ottawa last week, it seemed clear that however thoughtful his comments, I was talking with the frightened, shaky successor of a once robust and fully functioning human being. Torture does that to a person. It's an unspeakable crime, an affront to one's humanity that can rob you of a portion of your being as surely as acid can destroy your flesh."

Herbert says "Mr. Arar, as a Canadian citizen with a wife and two young children, had his life flipped upside down in the fall of 2002 when John Ashcroft's Justice Department, acting at least in part on bad information supplied by the Canadian government, decided it would be a good idea to abduct Mr. Arar and ship him off to Syria, an outlaw nation that the Justice Department honchos well knew was addicted to torture."

He continues, "Mr. Arar was not charged with anything, and yet he was deprived not only of his liberty, but of all legal and human rights. He was handed over in shackles to the Syrian government and, to no one's surprise, promptly brutalized. A year later he emerged, and still no charges were lodged against him. His torturers said they were unable to elicit any link between Mr. Arar and terrorism."

"Mr. Arar's is the case we know about. How many other individuals have disappeared at the hands of the Bush administration? How many have been sent, like the victims of a lynch mob, to overseas torture centers? How many people are being held in the C.I.A.'s highly secret offshore prisons? Who are they and how are they being treated? Have any been wrongly accused? If so, what recourse do they have?"

"Mr. Arar was the victim of an American policy that is known as extraordinary rendition. That's a euphemism. What it means is that the United States seizes individuals, presumably terror suspects, and sends them off without even a nod in the direction of due process to countries known to practice torture."

Herbert concludes with, "More important, it means that torture by proxy, close kin to contract murder, remains all right."

link: http://www.thehollywoodliberal.com/archives/00000021.htm
 

[Beckwith]

Arar was not abducted and shipped off to Syria as Herbert says.  He was legally arrested and deported to his country of origin, where he was a citizen.  This action was taken as a result of intelligence reports received from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

Now I don't know if Maher Arar, who has become a liberal cause celebre and Time Magazine's Canadian Newsmaker of the Year for 2004, is a terrorist, a terrorist facilitator, a terrorist sympathizer or a good Canadian citizen.  Neither does Bob Herbert.

My argument with Mr. Herbert is his view of the world and the rhetorical journey he takes from, "If torture and the denial of due process are O.K., why not murder?" to  "More important, it means that torture by proxy, close kin to contract murder, remains all right."

Herbert demands "due process" for a suspected terrorist but doesn't extend the same to his country or its officials.  In Herbert's mind the United States has no conscience and is guilty of murder.  John Ashcroft is a kidnapper.  George Bush sends people, "like the victims of a lynch mob, to overseas torture centers".

Mr. Herbert accepts Maher Arar's claims of innocence and torture without question.  He also accepts that the United States is guilty of torture and murder without question. 

That hardly seems fair and I question why liberals are always so ready to find fault when there is a Republican sitting in the Oval Office,  because they sure get quiet when it's a Democrat.  Do these people really care or is it be politics, pure and simple.  I wonder?

[Personal Responsibility]

Do these people really care or is it be politics, pure and simple. I wonder?

Don't wonder. Its politics.

[Piquaboy]

Liberals get all upset except when it is their ox that is getting gored.

[CentIntAg]

I think he is for the other side!
the gov. should watch him and all of his friends, and when he makes a slipup nab him and send him throught the meat grider over in Iraq. You know the one that Saddam had in his death chamber....Yeah this guys He is talking about didnt do a damn thing,,,,Right... They were sunday school teachers and amish ppl come on guy they were sleepers, get a clue........This is WAR

[CentIntAg]

I think he is for the other side!
the gov. should watch him and all of his friends, and when he makes a slipup nab him and send him throught the meat grider over in Iraq. You know the one that Saddam had in his death chamber....Yeah this guys He is talking about didnt do a damn thing,,,,Right... They were sunday school teachers and amish ppl come on guy they were sleepers, get a clue........This is WAR

[jigsaw]

If torture and the denial of due process are O.K., why not murder?

Good question, SpongeBob SquareRants. Ask your favorite abortionist.

[nikos1121]

"Arar was not abducted and shipped off to Syria as Herbert says. He was legally arrested and deported to his country of origin, where he was a citizen. "

Thank you for clearing that up. This guy is an idiot. I don't think I've ever read an article by him that said anything positive about the USA. Of course, that makes me a racist.

nick

[Publius Scipio]

How many other individuals have disappeared at the hands of the Bush administration? How many have been sent, like the victims of a lynch mob, to overseas torture centers? How many people are being held in the C.I.A.'s highly secret offshore prisons?

As many as necessary. What's the problem?

[frogjerk]

Welcome to Free Republic!

[smoothsailing]

[G.Mason]

"When the government can just make people vanish - which it can, and which it does - where is the line that we, as a nation, dare not cross?"

Beckwith just find out about Waco?

I don't remember him bawling about Clintoon and Reno when they wiped them out.

What do you mean they were mostly white folks at Waco?

[G.Mason]

Oops! That should have read Bob Herbert, not beckwith.

[cyberdasher]

Poor 'Mumia' Arar.

Propagandists always "report" that these things happen in a complete vacuum, absent of any underlying circumstances. Nobody said we should cease holding our own gov't accountable for everything but Herberts' assertions are factually untrue. So why would he keep saying things that are untrue. . . . ?

Judging from the early (possibly Rovian) innoculation of Armstrong Williams, et al. into the awareness of the casual ovserver, it could very well be that we start seeing some linkage between America's antagonists and these assclowns. Wouldn't _that_ be a hoot!?!

[massgopguy]

There was a clown from the ACLU giving Colmes a wet one last night over how torture doesn't work. Obviously they aren't familiar with the miracle of family hierlooms magically appearing when Rocco comes over to collect a gambling debt.

[G.Mason]

"This sick human whines about 'torture', but will defend the rapists at NAMBLA. Just 2 minutes is all I ask. Please, God. Two minutes with this piece of garbage.

I hear you.

I've never seen Sen. Jackass Byrd at a KKK meeting, but I have watched the Rev. Jackass Jackson, the Rev. Jackass Sharpton and the Rev. Jackass Farrakhan at various "meetings" on TV.

There could be no difference.

They are racists, pure and simple and they are my enemies because they are enemies of this Republic.

Little Bobby Herbert is but another.

[MadIvan]

He writes for the New York Times. It isn't called Izvestia on the Hudson for the nothing.

Regards, Ivan