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(WA): Builders group uses trick to check out voters’ signature
The News Tribune ^ | 4 march 2005

Posted on 03/04/2005 12:33:13 PM PST by llevrok

click here to read article


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To: Beckwith; TheOtherOne
I was wondering if this would be considered fraud or not from a legal or moral stand point. Its certainly deceptive, but no more then police stings, especially those that promise phony prize money.

Not fraud at all.

Could illustrate the difference between this this bit of deception and fraud?

41 posted on 03/04/2005 1:05:09 PM PST by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: Beckwith
THIS COMES VERY CLOSE TO FRAUD. MISLEADING PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN A SHAM SURVEY. NOT A GOOD PLAN

Well, you need detrimental reliance on an intentional misrepresentation --- detrimental in the sense that you are materially harmed.

So -- exactly how was someone damaged by getting paid $10? And giving nothing of value?

42 posted on 03/04/2005 1:07:41 PM PST by WL-law
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To: aft_lizard

I agree with you, IF it is true. I don't want republicans crawling through the muck. The truth always comes out and even if Gregoire stays in office, she will prove herself to be just another DEMOCRAT tax and spend liberal.


43 posted on 03/04/2005 1:07:46 PM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: AndyTheBear

I think you have to look at this in context and in proportion.


You either have rules or you dont. Using deception to find out real fraud is just not in the same catagory.


44 posted on 03/04/2005 1:08:25 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: WL-law

good point .


45 posted on 03/04/2005 1:09:19 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: WL-law

Ok, I will bite. These people were harmed because they were exposed as criminals!

I guess we need to prosecute the government in every case where someone wore a wire to acquire to the info based on 'detrimental reliance'


46 posted on 03/04/2005 1:11:35 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: TheOtherOne

yep. Good opinion. Not mine, but I respect yours.


47 posted on 03/04/2005 1:14:43 PM PST by llevrok (Don't blame me! I voted for Pedro.)
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To: WL-law

I think the answering of survey question...the giving of my time and personal information would qualify.


48 posted on 03/04/2005 1:15:43 PM PST by TheOtherOne
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To: llevrok

Cashing the check changes their phone service and signs them up for a two year internet contract?


49 posted on 03/04/2005 1:16:14 PM PST by Deaf Smith
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To: fooman
Don't get me wrong (see my original take in post #12).

I'm just looking for a little education on the definition of fraud and how it relates to this case. There is usually a vast amount of knowledge on Freerepublic, and I would rather strengthen my views and arguments among friends before I go talk to Liberals.

50 posted on 03/04/2005 1:17:55 PM PST by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: aft_lizard

I agree with it. The government should actually be doing it, and busting their butts to find those who would destroy our republic. This man should be lauded as a hero and his efforts advertised to scare the voter criminals.


51 posted on 03/04/2005 1:19:52 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (never surrender, this is for the kids)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
Christina Spears-Bartunek of Duvall had a quick answer for why the signature on her check was so different from the one on her affidavit. "My husband signed the check,” she told The Times, calling the survey deceptive.

So says the pot calling the kettle black.

Actually this thought crossed my mind when reading the post. If it is something like a survey then I wouldn't have a problem just telling my hubby to sign it. Or I might sign it for him and turn it in. I doubt that is what happened in all 400 cases though.

52 posted on 03/04/2005 1:20:38 PM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: AndyTheBear; Holicheese

I smell fear. This guy is guilty of something and is afraid.


53 posted on 03/04/2005 1:21:11 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (never surrender, this is for the kids)
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To: aft_lizard

If it were the case that people who committed vote fraud were locked up for one year per count, I would have a problem with this deception.

But that is not the case and our sucks compared, to say, Iraq and afghan, were people are marked with purple.

It is to the point were I am for getting rid of abesntee balloting, except for military and expats.


54 posted on 03/04/2005 1:24:09 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: Holicheese

The dems are just mad because they didn't think of it first !!! ROTFLOL!!!

I don't see anything illegal about it - it's strictly voluntary - and I guess you get to keep the $10 even if you don't return the survey ..??


55 posted on 03/04/2005 1:24:55 PM PST by CyberAnt (Pres. Bush: "Self-government relies, in the end, on the governing of the self.")
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To: fooman

If it were the case that people who committed vote fraud were locked up for one year per count, I would have a problem with this deception.

But that is not the case and our voting system sucks compared, to say, Iraq and afghan, were people are marked with purple.

It is to the point were I am for getting rid of abesntee balloting, except for military and expats.


56 posted on 03/04/2005 1:25:12 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: TheOtherOne

"If I get a letter from a business that says it is for purpose A. I participate based on that representation that the information is for purpose A. If turns out that the business was not using the information for purpose A as they indicated, but rather the undisclosed purpose B."

Do you consider grocery store discount cards to be fraudulant?


57 posted on 03/04/2005 1:26:26 PM PST by CSM (Currently accepting applications for the position of stay at home mom.)
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To: llevrok

The only way to justify this tactic is to say, "Two wrongs make a right." And I don't agree with that.


58 posted on 03/04/2005 1:26:56 PM PST by nyg4168
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To: llevrok

We're finally fighting back! I bet the 'rats are shaking in their boots. I think I see the U-Haul ....


59 posted on 03/04/2005 1:29:37 PM PST by Vicki (Truth and Reality)
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To: TheOtherOne
I think the answering of survey question...the giving of my time and personal information would qualify.

No, actually I don't think so.

Consider this. I'm a legitimate building organization, and I ask you to answer a survey and I pay you $10. You've been compensated for your time, and you volunteered anyway.

So now I, the builder organization, sell the data I've collected to the republican party.

Why can't I? I made no promise to you that the information would be treated as confidential.

So -- you have no privacy interest, because you didn't bargain for it.

And you're not harmed, and being harmed -- DETRIMENTAL reliance -- is an element that must be proved to prove fraud.

60 posted on 03/04/2005 1:30:14 PM PST by WL-law
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