NYC:The truth on bar smoking ban

Times Argus ^ | 3-4-05 | Amy McCloskey

[SheLion]

In reference to the story "Smoking ban for bars on Legislative agenda" on Feb. 14 by John Zicconi, all I can say is "Hogwash."

I own a successful bar in Greenwich Village. In 2004, we were voted the Best Lounge in New York by CitySearch. My business is down 30 percent since 2002. Since nothing has changed but the smoking ban, I can attribute this precipitous drop to nothing else.

It's remarkable to read that "A New York City official on Thursday will travel to Vermont to testify that Big Apple pub receipts have increased 12 percent since the city's ban went into affect in 2003" since not even Mayor Bloomberg has been able to wrestle the actual statistic for bars ONLY out of the state's finance department. The information they're peddling combines tax receipts for bars and restaurants — including places like McDonalds and Starbucks. This is like comparing a wolf to a Shih Tzu; anyone with any sense knows they're completely different beasts.

New York officials are doing their level best to cover up the fact that for many small businesses the smoking ban is an unmitigated disaster. They say that compliance is at 98 percent. That's such utter nonsense I don't even know where to begin. They say that no one is hurting, using tax information that cannot possibly represent the truth, while fines for noise complaints and capricious health code violations slowly pick away at our sanity.

All I can say is this: I'm a life-long non-smoker and I hated the way my bar smelled. I, too, figured that I'd wait and see. That it couldn't be THAT bad. I've had to cut eight staff, the ones left work fewer hours, and I haven't taken a paycheck since August. It's that bad.

The pub owners in Vermont need to pull their heads out of the sand in time to save themselves. Or, like us, they'll be fighting for their livelihoods while their plight is actively ignored by those who might help.

This includes, by the way, the media, which seems to have jumped onto the no-smoking bandwagon with both feet and no regard for journalistic integrity. Frankly, I'd be surprised if an opposing viewpoint ever sees the light of day.

Amy McCloskey New York, N.Y.

[Drew68]

Of course, we can never dispute the logic of liberal antis:

To be fair, wasn't Ms. Shields around 12 years-old when she made that comment?

[Drew68]

Last year, the City Council passed a ban on smoking in restaurants...but bars could still have it...under very limited circumstances..AND the bar owner had to pay for special "smoking permit."

A few years ago in Denver all the bar owners were forced to pay out of pocket to install "smoke-eater" ventilation systems which ran upwards of $10,000. Most of them were still paying them off when Denver tried to force a comprehensive smoking bad through the city council. It was barely shot down but as soon as they can put it to a vote it will pass.

Voters always vote for smoking bans because the majority of voters do not smoke.

[Southack]

My wife and I might prefer smoke-free bars and restaurants, but quite frankly, there aren't any good ones. Bars and restuarants are typically fragile, anyway.

Anyone who has paid attention has noticed that more often than not you'll see the same building used for one restaurant, then another, as various new management comes in to try their luck. Even slight changes in menu, decor, prices, or staff can doom a previously successful restaurant or bar.

...And a smoking ban isn't a "slight change." Yeah, not smelling Marlboros all night long might be preferable, unless the option is losing the restaurant or the bar altogether.

And if I can't smoke the occassional cigar at one such establishment, then I'll probably spend my money elsewhere. In fact, even IF I never smoke at a restaurant, it matters that I could or could not.

So these legislative smoking bans have got to be crushing the businesses that get unfairly trampled by such state mandates. Some percentage of old customers are either going elsewhere, or smoking (and eating and drinking) at home, and that's a percentage of high-spending customers that few bars or restaurants can survive without. These are marginal businesses, so it *matters* if they lose some margin of their customers.

And once restuarants start going out of business due to the bans, then the non-smokers have fewer eating options as well. So everybody suffers.

[SheLion]

Voters always vote for smoking bans because the majority of voters do not smoke.

The general non-smoking public is buffaloed by the anti's.  They do not realize how this is going to hurt the business owners and how many will have to close over time.

When only 25-30% of the people smoke in a state, we lose out to polls and votes every time.  The general public needs to realize that the anti's are putting a stranglehold on private business's and this is not right.

This should be left up to the business owner and his patrons.  Not the government and not the City Councils!

[lodwick]

I can't decide whether the smoking ban or the tolls roads will hurt Austin more...either way, I'm looking for a way outta here.

[nkycincinnatikid]

Spent a weekend at the Raddison in Lexington, Ky recently. Typical small town owned by it's universities with a smoking ban. The hotel bar was deserted,I felt kinda bad waking the hotel bartender up every night to use his wine key. But my wife and I had a smoking room, so where do you think we relaxed.

[SheLion]

And once restuarants start going out of business due to the bans, then the non-smokers have fewer eating options as well. So everybody suffers.

The smoking bans are a no-win situation. Read the post up above about how the bans are killing off private business's. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[SheLion]

Spent a weekend at the Raddison in Lexington, Ky recently. Typical small town owned by it's universities with a smoking ban. The hotel bar was deserted,I felt kinda bad waking the hotel bartender up every night to use his wine key. But my wife and I had a smoking room, so where do you think we relaxed.

Well, I won't spend my money in a place that can't or won't accommodate me. That is my time and my dime.  Why should I go out and pay for that personal abuse.

Spent a weekend at the Raddison in Lexington, Ky recently. Typical small town owned by it's universities with a smoking ban. The hotel bar was deserted,I felt kinda bad waking the hotel bartender up every night to use his wine key. But my wife and I had a smoking room, so where do you think we relaxed.

Well, I won't spend my money in a place that can't or won't accommodate me. That is my time and my dime.  Why should I go out and pay for that personal abuse.

[Bernard]

Actually, when smoking revenue starts to drop because the number of smokers will decrease each year, governments will have to figure what, if anything, is left to tax.

And when the smokers are all gone, government's need to spend will not decrease. I hope it goes well. To make it really interesting, maybe the tobacco tax can start to drop about the same time that Social Security runs out of money.

[SheLion]

Actually, when smoking revenue starts to drop because the number of smokers will decrease each year, governments will have to figure what, if anything, is left to tax.

And when the smokers are all gone, government's need to spend will not decrease. I hope it goes well. To make it really interesting, maybe the tobacco tax can start to drop about the same time that Social Security runs out of money.

What makes you think that smokers will decline? hehe!

The government is already trying to figure out how to tax gun owners.  Next, it will be alcohol again.  It's never ending.

Actually, when smoking revenue starts to drop because the number of smokers will decrease each year, governments will have to figure what, if anything, is left to tax.

And when the smokers are all gone, government's need to spend will not decrease. I hope it goes well. To make it really interesting, maybe the tobacco tax can start to drop about the same time that Social Security runs out of money.

What makes you think that smokers will decline? hehe!

The government is already trying to figure out how to tax gun owners.  Next, it will be alcohol again.  It's never ending.

[nkycincinnatikid]

If you get down this way stay in Northern Ky, So far still pretty accomodating to us addicted ones. Nothing to do in Lexington, unless you live for horses and basketball anyway.

[SheLion]

If you get down this way stay in Northern Ky, So far still pretty accomodating to us addicted ones. Nothing to do in Lexington, unless you live for basketball anyway.

We used to travel to Lexington to visit family a lot.  It's a gorgeous state with all the white fences and the race tracks.

Lexington has changed that much??

[TexasCowboy]

I think we should pull all of our troops out of Iraq and replace them with heavy smokers.
The terrorists, and everybody else, would be dead in two days.

[SheLion]

I think we should pull all of our troops out of Iraq and replace them with heavy smokers. The terrorists, and everybody else, would be dead in two days.

Yes! The anti's might LIKE that idea. heh! :)

[garyhope]

Funny, Kentucky and Tennessee used to be tobacco states. They used to make a lot of their income from that.

[garyhope]

Were we reared by the same parents? Sounds like it.

Put your feet on the sofa or furniture, BAM!

"So many things irritate me about men today",..So many things about almost everybody irritates the heck out of me today. I'm afraid I'm going to get in a fight for telling someone to shut up on their cell phone. Besides the ones driving 20 mph in the fast lane on the highway while on the phone. Do people ever use their rear view mirrors?


Good manners never hurt anyone.

[garyhope]

Next, they'll try and ban your outdoor BBQ grill. If they try that in Texas and the South, there's gonna be gunplay.

[Askel5]

As FReeper gatherings have proven for years (I remember wondering if ANYONE would smoke there), smokers are nothing but trouble.

This way, they all have to stay home or stand outside shouting into the wind where they belong.

[SheLion]

As FReeper gatherings have proven for years (I remember wondering if ANYONE would smoke there), smokers are nothing but trouble.

This way, they all have to stay home or stand outside shouting into the wind where they belong.

What's wrong?  You having a bad night?  There was no reason on earth for you to come in here and post that.

You're an ugly hateful person.

[NeoCaveman]

You're an ugly hateful person.

She's just trolling for an arguement. It's best to ignore her. That way she can go "sell crazy someplace else"