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Huge UK Church Survey says Pews Emptying Because Christianity no Longer Preached
LifeSiteNews.com ^ | March 7, 2005 | Unattributed

Posted on 03/07/2005 8:32:45 PM PST by quidnunc

Public wants church’s to cease being ‘silent’ and ‘lukewarm’ in face of moral collapse

London – With Christian moral values and legal protections under assault on all sides, it is commonly said that the reason pews are emptying is that traditional religion is not relevant. A new survey of thousands of churchgoers in the UK says the opposite however, and indicates that the emptying of the churches has been caused mainly by preaching and pastoral care that has been emptied of moral or doctrinal Christian content. The survey addressed questions about why church attendance was falling so dramatically in the UK but growing elsewhere, even though two-thirds of the British population believes in God.

The results of the year-long survey of 14,000 UK residents by the interdenominational Ecumenical Research Committee has been called ‘surprising’ by mainstream secular and Christian media. The overwhelming response is to call on churches “to robustly defend moral values with conviction and courage and cease being ‘silent’ and ‘lukewarm’ in the face of moral and social collapse.”

In an introduction, Lord Bromley Betchworth said “Those who spoke, did so with one voice … an alarming indication that there are multitudes of people across Britain and Ireland who feel that their views are not being heard or represented.” The vast majority of the people in Britain and Ireland, he says, are still morally conservative. “They are appalled that moral values and treasured beliefs are being stood on their head and want churches to play a leading role in standing up for these things.”

The survey itself asked four simple questions and avoided ‘tick-box’ responses in favour of written letters. The huge response was a surprise in itself and reflected a growing frustration and anger felt by many ordinary people about the direction of churches and society in general.

Responses displayed a widespread sense of frustration and anger at what was happening to the churches in Britain and Ireland. Many gave variations on the response, “Why hasn’t a survey like this been done before, so we can speak?” “At last, someone is listening, thank you so much.” “Thank you for the chance to express our beliefs without fear.”

Several ‘traditionalist’ Anglican clerics said that they had “to keep their own views to themselves in case their bishop, who held opposing beliefs, would remove them from their diocese.” Many Catholics in North America have written that a similar situation exists there in which the churches are controlled exclusively by bishops and lay administrators who brook no Christian opposition to their officially sanctioned left-liberal dissent from the faith.

91% of responses followed a uniform theme that the decline in traditional Christian moral and doctrinal teaching has caused the outflux of congregations. They listed the lack of apologetics, the reasoned defence and explanation of Christian doctrine, as one of the main reasons for the collapse. “It’s a myth today that the people of this country have rejected Christianity; they simply haven’t been told enough about it to either accept or reject it,” wrote one respondent.

Thousands of letters also cited the lack of emphasis on the holiness of God and the need for personal moral conversion. The desire for teaching on holiness, was prevalent and has been influenced, said the authors, by Mel Gibson’s film, the Passion of the Christ. Many responded that the churches now teach easy forgiveness; an attitude that ‘God loves me anyway,’ and that there is no need to attend church or live a morally demanding Christian life.

The overwhelming majority of respondents were vehemently opposed to ordaining homosexuals and blamed the churches for the rise in pedophilia scandals because of the prevalence of homosexuals in the clergy.

Some celibate homosexuals wrote saying that the prevalence of support for homosexuality in the churches is undermining their efforts to live chastely. One young man wrote, “For sections of the Church to suddenly say that my struggle (to remain chaste)…was for nothing and that it would have been OK to have given in, would be to deny my personal cross for Christ and mock the faithfulness I have shown Him.”

2000 letters asked for a return to traditional liturgy and pointed out that attempts to attract younger people with jazzed-up offerings had failed and had alienated older parishioners. Over 450 said they drove vast distances to attend a traditional liturgical celebration. 1500 letters complained that the modern liturgies ‘bordered on entertainment rather than worship.”

The survey has supported what Christians themselves have been saying for decades, that there is little point in attending a church whose message is no different from that of the materialistic secular world.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: apostasy; britain; christians; england; europeanchristians; greatbritain; paulianityexposed; scotland; signofthetimes; uk; unitedkingdom; wales
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To: Ronzo

FWIW, this skeptic thinks your essay was outstanding and wise, and of course very well constructed and written. Indeed, it is of publishable quality.


41 posted on 03/09/2005 9:35:33 PM PST by Torie
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To: Ronzo; saradippity; Tantumergo; american colleen; sinkspur; Phx_RC
In order to enter into the experience of transformation through sanctification, it will cost you. Perhaps that's why it seems to me that there are so many churches, even conservative ones, that are so superficial. Perhaps subconsciously they realize the true cost of the cross of Christ, and just don't want to pay it.

You nailed it....so to speak :)

42 posted on 03/09/2005 9:51:47 PM PST by kstewskis ("Tolerance is what happens when one loses their principles"....Fr. A Saenz.)
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To: kstewskis
Absolutely great tagline!! Is that attributable to the young priest who has been offering the Tridentine Mass in Phoenix?
43 posted on 03/09/2005 11:06:04 PM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity
that it is.

taken directly from his sermon a few weeks ago :)

44 posted on 03/10/2005 7:09:31 AM PST by kstewskis ("Tolerance is what happens when one loses their principles"....Fr. A Saenz.)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; marron; xzins; Heartlander; Tribune7; Dataman; Tantumergo; ...
I just wanted to thank everyone for their warm, supportive replies to my post!

Alamo-Girl, you stated something in your reply that I think bears some further development:

"...those very people who are suffering so deeply and not being fed by the church or congregation are the ones being sanctified by God. And the answer is this: the church cannot fill them, the congregation cannot heal them, only God can. The more they look to others - the more they concentrate on their own suffering instead of the Healer, the longer it will take them to be sanctified."

Excellent point A-G. It reminds me of a passage of scripture that we've discussed before, but I think it's quite relevant to bring it up again. That passage being the parable of the ten virgins:

“Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.

For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.

Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.

“The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’

“But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’

“And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.

“Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘ Lord, lord, open up for us.’

“But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’

“ Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

(Matthew 25:1 NASB)

For me, this is a parable of sanctification, and it's ultimate reward when taken seriously, and it's terrible cost if neglected.

Why couldn't the five prudent virgins share their oil with those who were foolish? Because there wasn't enough oil for the both of them. While this might seem rather selfish on the part of the five prudent virgins, it isn't really selfishness at all that is involved here, rather it's exactly what A-G said:

"...the church cannot fill them, the congregation cannot heal them, only God can. The more they look to others - the more they concentrate on their own suffering instead of the Healer, the longer it will take them to be sanctified"

If you allow the oil to symbolize a righteous, sanctified life, then you understand why the five prudent virgins were unable to share their supply--it's simply not possible. It's so obvious we hardly ever think about it, but the simple truth is that everyone lives or dies based on their own "goodness." Or, more accurately, their seriousness in embracing the cross of Christ, which is really the only place where "goodness" can possibly come from.

The five foolish virgins remind me very much of the negative examples in this other parable of Jesus, the sower of seeds:

“Behold, the sower went out to sow; and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up.

“Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. “But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

“Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.

“And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.

(Matthew 13:3-8 NASB)

This parable must be communicating an important truth, for it is one of the very few parables that Jesus takes time to explain in plain language:

“ Hear then the parable of the sower.

“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.

“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

“And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

(Matthew 13:18-23 NASB)

The five foolish virgins, who had their lamps buring for a while, are just like those who accepted Jesus' teachings, only to later reject them because it's just too much of a bother. And it is a bother! You either walk out your commitment to Jesus by His terms, or you redefine Jesus to make Him easier to live with. And for some, you just jetison Jesus altogether, and find some easier way to make it through life without all that tiresome morality, and right-living, and right-mindeness and so on and so on...

But then there's those five prudent (wise) virgins, and their counterpart: the man who actually accepted the terms of the Kingdom and kept to them until they bore fruit.

So what is this multiplicity of "fruit" that Jesus talks about? Is it new converts to Christianity? Is it more money in your bank account? Is it the ability to pick better stocks and investments? I've heard all those explanations come out of the mouths of conservative Christian ministers in the past, but I don't think any of them quite get it!

The fruit is just this: those actions that come from living in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. It might just be calling your grandmother; it might just be giving a drink of water to someone who's thirsty ("Ben Hur" anyone?); it might just mean encouraging someone who's had a hard day. It might even mean (horror of horrors!!!) washing the dishes so your wife can sit down at rest for a while. Not very big world-changing actions really, some will never be known outside of one or two people, but all of them are seen and appreciated by the One who led by example.

Jesus doesn't mention it in the "sower of seeds" parable, but there is a "secret" to bearing this kind of fruit, and he mentions it a little later on in this passage:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal."

(John 12:24-25 NASB)

The secret to bearing much fruit: Death. Just like a seed must "die" in order to sprout up into a seed bearing plant, so too must we die before there is any hope of us being able to live a life of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness and goodness (not to mention, self-control.)

There is a famous Hollywood movie I truly believe to be the best illustration of what it means to die to self: Bill Murray's "Groundhog Day." If ever there were a movie that illustrates a man coming to the end of himself, that film would be it.

But no one else can die for you, not even Jesus! Yes, he did die for us, but we kind of miss the point when we say that. It just wasn't his dying for our sins that was so very important, but to set an example for the rest of us to follow! Jesus still expects us to pick up our own crosses, and follow right after him. Strange, but just accepting His death is not enough, you have to join Him.

And so it is with sanctification. You can't do it for someone else. You can't take your own righteousness and sell it on eBay. You can't give your oil to the foolish virgins who left their supply at home.

But we can do something; we can encourage others along the path, and be honest about the suffering that awaits us on that journey.

I think that's what so many people are really looking for and not finding in the church: that small narrow way that is hard, difficult, and a pain-in-the-butt. Deep down we know that we need more than someone telling us everything we'll be OK, that there's no need to take this Jesus thing too seriously. Rather, we want someone to tell us it's hard, and that it's not easy, and they will, at the very least, stand by us as we encounter the cross for ourselves.

But often we don't even get that. Most of what passes for "hard" teachings in my corner of the world are sin management strategies, exhortations to tithe, and condemnation of those who are having a difficult time with their flesh. There's no symphathy and no emphathy. No one to lead us to the cross, knowing how difficult that journey is. Instead it's Jesus did it ALL for us, all we have to do is accept it. But obvioulsy, that's not what Jesus said:

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

(Matthew 16:24-28 NASB)

That's what I'd like to find in a church. Just someone in leadership who will tell us we need to die, then willingly help us get to that place. Is that so much to ask???

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In light of Alamo-Girl's recommendation of Oswald Chambers, Here's a few books that have helped me quite a bit in my own process of sanctification:

THE IMITATION OF CHRIST - Thomas Kempis: Simply the most powerful book on the renunciation of self and the seeking after of Christ ever written. Though not a 365 day devotional like "My Utmost for His Highest", the short, intense chapters can easily be read in a devotional way. Instead of talking about Jesus and following him, Kempis writes in such a way that it is Jesus speaking directly to you! Sample quote:

"How dull and insensible is man's heart thinking only of the present and not caring about what is to come! Your every thought and action should be that of a man who is to die this day. If you had a good conscience you would not especially fear death; indeed, it is easier to fly from sin that to flee death. If you are not prepared to die today, will you be prepared tomorrow? Tomorrow is still uncertain, and how do you know you will see a tomorrow?" (Ch. 23-Meditations on Death)

CONTEMPLATION IN A WORLD OF ACTION - Thomas Merton: A very interesting exploration of what it means to be human, and the pitfalls and weaknesses of the human condition. The value of this book is Merton's understanding that a leader cannot have a "cookie-cutter" approach to dealing with individuals desiring a religious life, but one must understand their deeper needs and problems. Sample quote:

"This is simply the voice of a self-questioning human person who, like all his brothers, struggles to cope with turbulent, mysterious, demanding, exciting, frustrating, confused existence in which almost nothing is really predictable, in which most definitions, explanations and justifications become incredible even before they are uttered, in which people suffer together and are sometimes utterly beautiful, at other times impossibly pathetic. In which there is much that is frightening, in which almost everything public is patently phony, and in which there is at the same time an immense ground of personal authenticity that is right there and so obvious that no one can talk about it and cannot even believe that it is there." (pg. 142)

THE TRANSFORMATION OF INNER MAN - John & Paula Sanford: There are very, very few books that are explicitly about sanctification, but this is one of them. Don't read this unless you want to change, for it is literally a life-changing book. The first chapter, "Sanctification and Transformation" is the single best piece of writing on sanctification I've ever come across. Sample quote:

"Good or bad, whatever of character is built in us must come to death and reformation in Christ. Sanctification is not a process of removing each spot of corrupt practices until the whole nature shines as something beautiful (as I had thought). Far from knowing ourselves to be perfectly formed, we know ourselves to be perfectly corrupted and have come to rest about that in Jesus." (pg. 13)

45 posted on 03/10/2005 9:13:52 AM PST by Ronzo (God ALONE is enough.)
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To: Ronzo; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; Corin Stormhands
Thank you for emphasizing that no one else can die for us.

Jesus did tell us to take up our cross and follow him. He did sacrifice himself for us, and that is the basis of our empowerment to take up our own cross. We love him because he first loved us.

However, there is a cross that each has to carry. I read a sermon with a similar theme by an old baptist preacher (George Truitt?) about burdens. Some we cast on him, some we carry for other or they for us, and some we must carry ourselves.

"You've got to walk that lonesome valley
You've got to walk it by yourself
Oh, nobody else can walk it for you
You've got to walk it by yourself
"

46 posted on 03/10/2005 9:26:59 AM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of it!)
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To: Ronzo
Deep down we know that we need more than someone telling us everything we'll be OK, that there's no need to take this Jesus thing too seriously. Rather, we want someone to tell us it's hard, and that it's not easy, and they will, at the very least, stand by us as we encounter the cross for ourselves.

Yes, Ronzo -- exactly. And this is what is missing in many churches today. Perhaps that's "unfair," though: I do live in Massachusetts, and the "received public (secular) orthodoxies" are particularly strong here. It's sad to me that the churches -- at least the ones I've been to -- have allowed themselves to be so captured by the "spirit of the age."

Thank you for the book recommendations; I have the Thomas a Kempis already; Merton's remarks as quoted are deepling intriguing, so I will have to buy that book!

Thanks so very much for writing, Ronzo!

47 posted on 03/10/2005 9:50:41 AM PST by betty boop (If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking. -- Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: Ronzo
What a beautiful essay, sermon or testimony! (I'm not sure how to characterize it, it is useful in so many ways). Thank you!!!
48 posted on 03/10/2005 10:21:46 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: saradippity; american colleen; sinkspur; Phx_RC; kstewskis; Ronzo

"A new survey of thousands of churchgoers in the UK says the opposite however, and indicates that the emptying of the churches has been caused mainly by preaching and pastoral care that has been emptied of moral or doctrinal Christian content."

I can't accept this at all! Our Mass attendance has gone up 28% in the last 18 months and my PP and I specialize in liberal, vacuous homilies and wishy-washy sacramental preparation. I just don't know why these little pagans keep asking for baptism!


49 posted on 03/10/2005 10:37:50 AM PST by Tantumergo
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To: Ronzo
CONTEMPLATION IN A WORLD OF ACTION - Thomas Merton:

I, too, like Merton. His "Seven Story Mountain" written after WWII was cited by many men who were ordained priests in the 50s and 60s as inspiration to them to go forward in recognizing their vocations. Almost every one of his books, some written 60 years ago, are still in print.

But, you will encounter some opposition to this good man from some quarters around here.

You should write down your commentaries. They would be valuable to clergy in preparing for homilies or leaders of scripture studies.

I'd pay you for them.

50 posted on 03/10/2005 12:46:02 PM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: xzins
"...there is a cross that each has to carry. I read a sermon with a similar theme by an old baptist preacher (George Truitt?) about burdens. Some we cast on him, some we carry for other or they for us, and some we must carry ourselves."

So true. It seems that the best real-life examples of this are those who serve in the armed forces, especially those who see combat. The others in your unit are there to fight with you, not for you! But yet there are those times, when you are wounded and ineffective, that the others literally do fight for you.

I've seen many testimonies of those who served in combat during WW2, and they almost all say--to a man--that the real reason they fought and killed was for the guy standing next to them. It wasn't heroism or patriotism that motivated them, it was the friendships they had with the men in their own unit that kept them going.

So it is with Jesus. It wasn't just for his own glorification that He went to the cross; it was out of love for us, and His desire to have us with Him for all eternity.

One thing Jesus won't do is come down to earth and drag your body to the cross and nail you there. He asks us to do that to ourselves! There is a LOT that Jesus does do for us, but there are some things that we ourselves are being held responsible for.

51 posted on 03/10/2005 10:01:32 PM PST by Ronzo (God ALONE is enough.)
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To: Ronzo
One thing Jesus won't do is come down to earth and drag your body to the cross and nail you there. He asks us to do that to ourselves! There is a LOT that Jesus does do for us, but there are some things that we ourselves are being held responsible for.

Well written, Ronzo.

And this retiree definitely likes military examples. Thanks.

52 posted on 03/10/2005 10:17:01 PM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of it!)
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To: betty boop
Yes, Ronzo -- exactly. And this is what is missing in many churches today. Perhaps that's "unfair," though: I do live in Massachusetts, and the "received public (secular) orthodoxies" are particularly strong here. It's sad to me that the churches -- at least the ones I've been to -- have allowed themselves to be so captured by the "spirit of the age."

I'm not so sure it is the spirit of the age as much as it is the spirit of Massachusetts! Where's Jonathan Edwards when you need him? (Sinners in the hands of an Angry God!!!!) Your state breaks my heart, as I've had some wonderful visits there, and many fine memories. My wife grew up in the New York town of Hudson, kinda in between the Catskills and the Berkshires on the east bank of the river by the same name. Last time we visited her hometown, we crossed over the state line and had a wonderful time exploring Stockbridge, and the Norman Rockwell Museum, and the Hancock Shaker Community all in the western part of Massachusetts.

But I can appreciate how difficult it is when we see our churches becoming the forerunners for the "spirit of the age" rather than the voice that cries out in the wilderness! Often times (about everyday lately...) I consider just opting out of church life entirely, and becoming a suburban hermit. Perhaps that's why I relate so well to the Desert Fathers; I completely and absolutely understand their motivation for wanting to move to the desert...

Thank you for the book recommendations; I have the Thomas a Kempis already; Merton's remarks as quoted are deepling intriguing, so I will have to buy that book!

I think you will really enjoy Merton's "Contemplation in a World of Action." Fascinating book! It's rare to find a work that so expertly speaks about philosophy, theology and pyschology all in one volume. Though Merton was writing in the context of training and equipping novices for the monastic life, his insights into the needs and nature of man, as well as the damage done by the inflexibility and apathy of large, old institutions, is worthwhile reading for anyone.

Also, the book contains what I believe is the single best rational in regards to why there should be monastic communities in the first place. You will find it on page 100. Not a defense of monasticism, but simply a reason for why it is.

53 posted on 03/10/2005 10:38:52 PM PST by Ronzo (God ALONE is enough.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
What a beautiful essay, sermon or testimony! (I'm not sure how to characterize it, it is useful in so many ways)

I'm not exactly how to characterize it myself A-G!!! But thank you so much for your kind words.

I've been more of lurker than an active participant on the Free Repbulic for the past year or so. I've been undergoing a process of "stripping" --trying to find the essential core of Christianity. It was just recently, in the last month or so, that I think I finally hit bedrock. I'll have tell you more about that in a future post or e-mail. But the man who helped me find what I was looking for was none other than Father Abraham himself. (Thanks to the book of Genesis...)

But I must say that I've really been impressed by the articles (and comments!) you and betty boop have been posting! Some nights I just amuse myself just reading everything you two write! And I can trutfully say that I'm a better person for having read your work.

54 posted on 03/10/2005 10:52:41 PM PST by Ronzo (God ALONE is enough.)
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To: sinkspur
I, too, like Merton. His "Seven Story Mountain" written after WWII was cited by many men who were ordained priests in the 50s and 60s as inspiration to them to go forward in recognizing their vocations. Almost every one of his books, some written 60 years ago, are still in print.

I discovered Merton when I was learning about the concept of contemplative prayer. I would just buy any book with the world "contemplation" in the title! Strangley enough, "Contemplation in a World of Action" isn't really about contemplation at all, but much more about how those in Christian leadership need to respond to the "new breed" of those trying to follow their vocations. After I got over my disappointment about the lack of instruction in contemplative prayer, I soon realized that this book was a little goldmine of wisdom. It was the only Merton book I took with me a year or so ago when I visited his home: the Abbey of Gethsemani (www.monks.org) Click on the link to their website, and you'll see where I get my tagline from...

[For the record, I've found Thomas Keating's book about contemplative prayer to be the most helpful instruction, especially "Intimacy with God." Also learned a thing or two from Fr. Thomas Dubay and his video series: "Contemplation: Union with God"]

While I was at the Abbey of Gethsemani, I had the rare opportunity to talk with a young monk. He had read "Seven Story Mountain" while in college, and as soon as he read it, he knew it was God speaking to him. That book is still the best recruiting tool for the religious that's ever been devised!

You should write down your commentaries. They would be valuable to clergy in preparing for homilies or leaders of scripture studies. I'd pay you for them.

I so appreciate your encouragement in that regard. The idea to write a "layman's" commentary (and even a systematic theology!) has crossed my mind more than once.

I even began writing a simple commentary for my favorite Pauline epistle: the letter to the Galatians. Lately, I've seriously considered expanding on that work, and also commenting on the different ways in which modern bible translators have treated Paul's words.

Why Galatians? So many powerful lessons and concepts, such as: "I have been crucified with Christ..." (Gal 2:20)

In regards to a systematic theology, I've often thought that it would be interesting to create one that mirrors the exact canonical order of the biblical books. It would be a combination theology, commentary and bible handbook; but mostly a systematic theology.

The reason for following the exact order of the books is simple: why not develop a theology the same way it's laid out for us? Start at the beginning (Genesis), and end at the end (Revelation). Along the way, you could just act as a commentator/theologian, highlighting those passages that develop the essential themes of Christian theology. Or perhap's it would be better to state "theme" rather than "themes"; for the Bible is ultimately about God's self-revelation along with His plan of salvation. Also, it's about us, and how we respond to Him and His plan. I guess that would be a good title for the work: "God, Man, and a Plan!"

Of course it would be a very practical theology rather than a scholarly one, as I would want it to be accessible to anyone with an interest in the subject matter. No going off into proof's for God's existance and all that sort of thing, just a simple, but accurate, overview of the BIG THEME.

Who knows? It might actually be worthwhile. Look at the amazing popularity of "The Purpose Driven Life."

I will take your recommendations seriously...

55 posted on 03/10/2005 11:48:54 PM PST by Ronzo (God ALONE is enough.)
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To: sinkspur
Oops, the link for monks.org doesn't work... Just type "monks.org" in your browser's address bar, and it will take you there.

Sorry about that...don't know what I did wrong there!

The following is just a test:

www.monks.org

56 posted on 03/10/2005 11:53:25 PM PST by Ronzo (God ALONE is enough.)
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To: quidnunc

When I was in London several years ago, I saw at least a few large, pro-Christian advertisements painted on the walls of the underground (subway). I forget what they said exactly, but they made a strong, positive impression on me. It seemed a strange thing to see amid the trains, grime and bustle of the secular world, but it also made me wonder about the people who paid to put them up. I thought, surely the Lord's people are still in this land.


57 posted on 03/11/2005 12:06:51 AM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: quidnunc

I quit a local supposedly Christian church when a visiting minister showed up a month after the election sporting a black "Bush won" mourning ribbon on his lapel and began his "sermon" with a quote from Karl Marx. I wasn't the only one who quit.

The Catholics in my town are the only ones adhering to any kind of consistent theological, moral message. The rest are left-wing loons, some more pleasant, some more intelligent than others, but in the aggregate, loons. Could be that's why Catholicism is gaining converts and "reconverts" despite their problem with gay priests.

All churches need to get rid of leftist loons and gays in the clergy. Then they'd fill up again on Sundays.


58 posted on 03/11/2005 12:17:53 AM PST by Veto! (Opinions Freely Dispensed as Advice)
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To: Ronzo

Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement, Ronzo!


59 posted on 03/11/2005 8:23:50 AM PST by betty boop (If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking. -- Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: Ronzo
Thank you so much for your reply and all the kudos and encouragements!

You were missed, Ronzo. I knew you were on a spiritual journey, and am tickled pink that you are back.

I'm also very much looking forward to what you have gathered from Abraham and Genesis!

60 posted on 03/11/2005 8:26:00 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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