[PatrickHenry]

Sound waves are recorded in the cosmic microwave background at the moment the universe had cooled enough for photons to "decouple" from electrons, protons, and neutrons, atoms formed and light went on its way. There was no physical organism to hear that sound yet there you have it - proof that sound exists even if noone hears it.

I don't want to side-track the discussion over this, but your post is a good one and deserves a reponse. My interpretation of what you've just described is that the vibrations existed when no one was around. Just like the case of the lonely tree falling in the forest. That's not "sound." (I think this is a meaningful distinction, and not just a freepish quibble.) Hearing is an independent event, and it's the hearing that gives us "sound." So -- stubbornly, as befits my grouchy nature -- I repeat: no listener, no sound; no viewer, no green.

[OhioAttorney]

I think this is a meaningful distinction, and not just a freepish quibble.

So do I. See my post #368, which I'd have pinged you on if I'd seen this comment first.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your reply!

I don't want to side-track the discussion over this, but your post is a good one and deserves a reponse. My interpretation of what you've just described is that the vibrations existed when no one was around. Just like the case of the lonely tree falling in the forest. That's not "sound." (I think this is a meaningful distinction, and not just a freepish quibble.) Hearing is an independent event, and it's the hearing that gives us "sound." So -- stubbornly, as befits my grouchy nature -- I repeat: no listener, no sound; no viewer, no green.

Yours is a fascinating reply to which I have a question for our counsel.

I am very hard of hearing and oftentimes see lips moving but do not hear anything. If I were arrested for failure to stop when a peace officer verbally demanded me to do so - if the jury was full of PatrickHenrys - would it be a viable argument that the officer never told me to stop because I didn't hear him?

[longshadow]

subjectively green placemarker