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Rush Shares Personal End Of Life Story (MUST READ!!!)
Rush Limbaugh.com ^ | 03/21/05 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 03/21/2005 4:05:17 PM PST by goldstategop

RUSH: Here's Gary in Champaign, Illinois. Gary, welcome to the program. It's nice to have you on with us.

CALLER: Thank you. Rush?

RUSH: Yes, sir.

CALLER: I'm a Republican. I voted for Bush, all that stuff like in your commercials, but I have to disagree with everybody on this one, and let me tell you why.

RUSH: All right.

CALLER: Six years ago my mother had a brain aneurysm, went through a surgery to repair it, had another operation, procedure and a few other things. Finally the neurosurgeon, the neurologist came and told us she was in a chronic or permanent vegetative state. And for nine months I convinced my five siblings to withdraw the tube feeding her and let her die naturally. We did not kill our mother, we let her die naturally. Now, I've seen film of this lady, I've seen the news reports, doctors have said she is in a chronic or permanent vegetative state. What that means is, you have very, very basic brain function. The part of your brain that makes you breathe still works, you may have some response to pain or other minor basic stimuli but they have absolutely zero cognitive function. That lady has no idea what's going on around her. She doesn't know the difference from night to day. She doesn't know who people are. She doesn't feel anything at all. The right thing for her to do is what her husband wants to do, and that is pull the plug on her and let her die a natural death.

RUSH: Okay. You've told a personal story.

CALLER: I've been there.

RUSH: Well, so have I. And I'm going to tell you a personal story.

CALLER: I do not think that I killed my mother. I let her die naturally.

RUSH: I know you don't want to think that. You let her die. You had the doctors remove the feeding tube so you didn't even do it. She died a natural death, starvation, on the basis that she couldn't feed herself, so she starved. I'm just going to go back to the first hour, and, you know, the New York Times ran a brilliant story on Sunday that starvation is painless, it's a very dignified way to go. We could rid the world of poverty by letting them all starve. They may not all be in a vegetative state, but they soon will end up in one after they don't eat or drink long enough. Just gonna let 'em die.

Let me tell you my own personal story. My grandmother, my maternal grandmother. To give you the short, down-and-dirty of this, she had a stroke and was sent to the hospital, and the doctors said, "We don't know how long she's going to live like this." She was not in a coma but she was not quite there. The doctors said, "We don't know how long she's going to live like this, but we're going to give you 48 hours, you've got to make up your mind what you want to do, pull the tube or send her to a nursing home and pay for it because we need the bed." So my mother, my father had passed away, my mother talked to my brother and I about it and she wanted to pull the tube. And I said, "Mother, you really want the burden of having killed your mother? You really want that?" Before the 48 hours had passed a decision had to be made, my grandmother had another stroke while nobody was there and passed away in the hospital. At least that was the story. I've always doubted it. Given that we were given 48 hours to move her out of there, I've often wondered. Nobody will ever know, so it's just speculation on my part. I don't know how many patients are actually killed already on the basis that they don't know what's going on, it's better for them, we need the bed, insurance isn't going to cover this, blah, blah, all these decisions.

Now, I know, Gary, that you don't want to think that you killed your mom, and this sort of thing, but the argument about this woman exists because I think your scenario of her circumstances doesn't jibe with what some family members are saying. Some family members are saying she does respond to stimuli, that she does know when her dad and mom walk in the room, this sort of thing. So I think that the way you have to understand this -- well, you, the audience, the way you, the audience, have to understand, because everybody -- well, 90% of the people on the phones waiting to talk to me disagree with me on this, and I think the culture of death is very seductive. We can tell ourselves that we're doing the best thing for the person that's going to die. And we do that to hide the fact that we don't want to be inconvenienced ourselves in some way, either financially or personally or a combination of the two or what have you. And individual case, okay, so Gary's mom died the way she did, that's not going to wreck society, a single instance, it's not going to, you know, sow the seed, fabric of destruction. However, when a culture of death overtakes a society, and we have one now, you know, we've gotten to a point where it's permissible and even heroic to abort babies.

In order to make that argument we've now started calling pregnancy a disease. Pregnancy is a disease, it's not a natural state for women say some abortion rights activists. Then on the tail end of the life spectrum we decide, "Well, this person wouldn't want to live this way." Even though they may never have said that they don't want to live this way we assume it for them because we project. We don't think we would want to live that way. "I don't want to see my family member suffer," or what have you. And I realize that each one of you that have been in this situation do not think that you have contributed anything but love and the goodness of your wishes to your family member in taking this action. But there are societal ramifications for all of these particularly as they accumulate and the cumulative effect of the culture of death is one of the things that takes us to where we are at now. And that is that we literally have divided up sides in this argument that perplex me, and they give me pause. There's an actual energized enthusiasm for this woman's death out there, and there's an actual energized enthusiasm to save her life. I can understand the energized effort and enthusiasm to save life. We're oriented toward that in so many areas of our society. Sadly, we're also oriented on the side of ending life, and there are a lot of people-- I hear all this talk, Democrats have all these accusations, Republicans have ideological attached to this. Let me tell you something, if you want to argue who's more ideologically at risk here by losing this, take a look at the left.

They've got two things they're going to lose on, if the judge here -- and he's a Clinton-appointed judge, and I have no idea what's going to happen in this case -- but if the left loses it, they lost twice. They're going to have lost because the Congress has exercised Article 3 and is exercising its authority over the judiciary. They can't stand that because that's going to send a bad signal over their filibuster of Bush judges. The second thing they're going to lose on is their base, the pro-abort, feminist base. I mean, they're as actively involved in this as -- "Well, Rush, this has nothing to do with abortion." -- no, it doesn't have anything to do with abortion. It has to do with the rights of individuals under the so-called declaration of privacy or what have you to terminate a life they'd rather not deal with. Which is what abortion is. That's all it is. I want to kill this baby, I don't want to deal with it. You come up with other excuses, "I don't want it born to poverty, oh, it's a sorry circumstances," da-da-da-da-da-da, but boil it down, that's what it is, and if they lose both of these -- and that's why they're panicked. They've got two ideological battles that they're fighting in this little battle here over Terri Schiavo, and they're afraid to lose both of them. But don't think they don't have an ideological stake here, either.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: endoflife; rush; rushlimbaugh
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Some of us have stories of loved ones whose brain has stopped working and its stressful when you try to reach people who are no longer aware of you. So we should let them starve to death because they can no longer reason? For Rush, the culture of death creates a seductive premise for eliminating people we think don't fit into given criteria of what's "viable" and so forth. That's what abortion is. And that's what the Left's attempt to get rid of Terri Schiavo is about. The Left fears losing the judiciary and their kook base. By the way, Rush's grandmother died a natural death and his family didn't have to face being pressured to kill her. And often enough, you'll find its about money. When it should be about life. That's why depending on how people look at it, you'll find where they fall down on with respect to these issues. Its as predictable as human nature and as well as with people's ideological beliefs here.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
1 posted on 03/21/2005 4:05:22 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

When my father, my aunt, my grandmother, my mother in law, died, they were terminal. They were elderly. They were allowed to die only when the doctors AND the immediate family ALL AGREED that it was the end, there was no hope. None of them opened their eyes or made a sound. Terry opens here eyes, she tries to speak. She is NOT in a coma. My beloved family members were in a coma, as if in a permanent sleep, eyes CLOSED.


2 posted on 03/21/2005 4:08:15 PM PST by buffyt (If we stop fighting the terrorists, the world will die.)
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To: goldstategop

I watched my Dad die slowly from Alzhiemers/Dementia, and there was no way I was going to smother him with a pillow/slip him a toxic cocktail/shoot him to make him die earlier just because he wasn't going to get better.

At the worst, we would have sedated him to die painless from whatever was killing him at the moment. He was on a DNR from the day he went in anyways, we knew he was never going to get better, so, letting him die from whatever was killing him was bad enough.

But to actually create some situation where we would be the source and control of what would eventually kill him, that would be murder.

He was not some flame thrower victim in combat who would not survive the trip to sick bay because of 100% burns, he was not injured with all limbs broken and bleeding profusely 100 miles from civilization and putting him out of his misery, he was in a nursing home/hospital.

So is Terry Schiavo.

Taking out the feeding tube is murder, and her husband plans to profit from it. I am privately convinced he has movie deals, book deals already in the works detailing "his" pain and suffering.

And that is all this is. HIS suffering he is worried about. I know it personnaly, I was relieved my father died last August because it meant I would not have to go see him like that and it meant my Mother would not have to go and see him die every day she went and did his laundry and feed him and bathe him like she did. It took away her pain of seeing him suffer. And that means more to me than my Dad's suffering because he was going to die, she is quite well and alive and has to carry on without him. I pitied her and was thankful he died so she didn't have to suffer watching him die.

JEB Bush needs to declare a state emergency, activate the National Guard and go inside that hospice and take her out and give her to her parents.

If she dies later, naturally, it would still be the right thing to do.


3 posted on 03/21/2005 4:17:32 PM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: buffyt
Terry opens here eyes, she tries to speak. She is NOT in a coma. My beloved family members were in a coma, as if in a permanent sleep, eyes CLOSED.

Your family members may have had a better chance of recovery than Terri Shiavo, whose cerebral cortex has been completely destroyed.

4 posted on 03/21/2005 4:17:34 PM PST by Zevonismymuse
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To: Brad's Gramma; justshe; nicmarlo; Fawnn

ping


5 posted on 03/21/2005 4:17:43 PM PST by glock rocks (For the love of all that's good and decent, don't try this at home.)
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To: buffyt

Yes, Terri has the potential (longshot) to recover, speak, love, and live for decades.


6 posted on 03/21/2005 4:17:54 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: goldstategop

People who say starvation is 'natural' and a 'kind' death are full of it! A lady in the nursing home my grandmother was in basically starved to death. She was pretty much in a sleep state most of the time. She hadn't had anything to eat since around Thanksgiving and she went about 3 weeks without something of substance to drink. By january she was down to 80# in weight and when she died around the first part of Feb, she weighed around 65# I think I heard. It doesn't take much to keep someone going who is doing nothing but lying in bed. She moaned and cried out all the time. Her daughter told her it was time to go, but she hung on and hung on! It was loooong, drawn out and sad!!


7 posted on 03/21/2005 4:19:24 PM PST by curlewbird
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To: goldstategop

Little by little, the clinical criteria used to determine whether organ donors are "brain dead" will change to include other levels of brain damage now considered off limits.


8 posted on 03/21/2005 4:19:38 PM PST by LibFreeOrDie ("We're led to believe it's painless, peaceful, - even humane" - Alan Shore ("Boston Public")
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To: goldstategop
I admire Rush for not backing off on honesty. I listened to that part of the program and Rush did not try to make this guy feel better, didn't let him off the hook. He said, "You let her die."

After my mother had her stroke, I had to make so many tough decisions. I was the only decision-maker. I believe if you pray to the Heavenly Father for guidance, the right thing will be done. It's a heavy responsibility, to watch over the end of someone's life but, IMO, not the right of any human being to hasten another human being's end in a case such as this where life support is not in effect. I feel somewhat better that I chose for life, but it is still tough to reflect on.

BTW, when my mother was pregnant with me (a LONG time ago), since my father left her, it was suggested she abort. But here I am. So I like to think now we did the same favor for each other. Fern B., rest in peace.

9 posted on 03/21/2005 4:20:07 PM PST by La Enchiladita (... the greatest of these is Love ...)
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To: RaceBannon
Just a tagline observation.
10 posted on 03/21/2005 4:21:42 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum (Michael Schiavo's favorite Shakespearean quote..."Put out the light....then put out the light.")
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To: Zevonismymuse

"Your family members may have had a better chance of recovery than Terri Shiavo, whose cerebral cortex has been completely destroyed."

How do you know?


11 posted on 03/21/2005 4:25:14 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: buffyt

I was 16 when my mother had brain aneurysm at the age of 47. She was on a respirator. The last time I saw her before she passed, there was no response, and her eyes were closed.

Later that night, she had another leakage. The doctors told us that they would know within 48 hours if she would make it or not. They did brain scans and found she had no brain waves.

She passed 48 hours after the first aneurysm. An autopsy was performed and they found her brain was compressed due to all the blood.

My mother was brain dead and never would of been able to survive on her own.

I view her situation very different from Terri's. Terri can breath on her own, she can open her eyes and it appears she is aware of her family member.


12 posted on 03/21/2005 4:25:29 PM PST by Alexis the Bengal Kitty
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To: goldstategop
I'm a Republican. I voted for Bush, all that stuff like in your commercials, but I have to disagree with everybody on this one, and let me tell you why.

This is a standard line used by Libs calling into Rush's show. Heard it all the time during the campaign, especially that ending, "and let me tell you why".

13 posted on 03/21/2005 4:26:37 PM PST by silent_jonny (Pro-Life, Pro-Terri)
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To: silent_jonny

bttt


14 posted on 03/21/2005 4:28:11 PM PST by ConservativeMan55 (DON'T FIRE UNTIL YOU SEE THE WHITES OF THE CURTAINS THEY ARE WEARING ON THEIR HEADS !)
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To: McGruff; malia

Ping.


15 posted on 03/21/2005 4:28:58 PM PST by Springman (I'm from Detroit, need I say more?)
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To: RaceBannon
Alzheimer's is the worst thing I've ever seen happen to a human being. And I cannot imagine the suffering that your Dad, your Mother and you experienced. But I will say something that sounds odd, accept it or not, I believe the suffering of your Mother and yourself was a gift from God. Being busy in practical ways of helping your loved one, as she did, is immensely helpful also.

I couldn't stand the stress, at first, of being the sole family caregiver in my mother's case, but our doctor's secretary said to me, "Why should you be spared?" I recognized the truth and wisdom in that. Indeed, why should I be spared? And, from then, I had the strength and felt it was an honor. Although, as you say, it's horrific to see your beloved in a deteriorated condition. At least, we can witness with them while they go through the valley.

16 posted on 03/21/2005 4:29:04 PM PST by La Enchiladita (... the greatest of these is Love ...)
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To: RaceBannon
But to actually create some situation where we would be the source and control of what would eventually kill him, that would be murder.

Exactly.

(Sorry for your loss.)

17 posted on 03/21/2005 4:29:58 PM PST by silent_jonny (Pro-Life, Pro-Terri)
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To: curlewbird

if starving is natural and beautiful, Sally Struthers should be asking we take all the food away from the people
on whose behalf she begs for.


18 posted on 03/21/2005 4:30:50 PM PST by Rakkasan1 (Keep drilling. Mother Nature will make more.)
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To: Zevonismymuse
whose cerebral cortex has been completely destroyed

I don't believe anyone knows that conclusively. An MRI would be required to conclude what you've said, and no MRI has ever been done.
19 posted on 03/21/2005 4:31:03 PM PST by andyk
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To: Zevonismymuse

Aw, jeez, now you're in for it. What were you thinking, bringing cold hard facts to an emotional argument? Next thing you know you'll be arguing it's unconstitutional, when we know the Right Thing To Do® is to let her live so Congress can create jurisdiction for the federal courts based on public outcry.

I hardly even want to open myself up for the attacks by replying to or bumping your post, but I will. What's the point of replying to these people? All they want to do is vilify you for taking a second to think about the case, instead of simply emoting about it and how awful the courts are and how someone oughta pass a law, instead of agitating for the impeachment of the Florida judges who are at fault! If Republicans TRULY want this problem solved, they cannot solve it by taking the liberal route, passing more laws for more judges to misinterpret. They should be removing those judges in the FLORIDA legislature, which they are certainly not about to do.

These laws are a complete waste of time, padding lawyer pocketbooks and merely postponing the inevitable. We are under judicial rule, and until that is fixed, the killings will continue.


20 posted on 03/21/2005 4:31:46 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (The South will rise again? Hell, we ever get states' rights firmly back in place, the CSA has risen!)
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To: ALOHA RONNIE

This thread made me remember what a family friend did to his mother.

She was dying from cancer, and was a childhood friend of
my mother's.

My mom brought soup to her friend, but the son wouldn't let my mom feed it to her.

Turns out, the son had made the decision to starve his mother to death. He pumped her full of morphine and in just a few days she was dead.

She wasn't completely ravaged by cancer, she still could talk and sit up and walk and eat, but her son, thought it was best for Mom to go.

And so she got weaker each day until she died.

And dear son inherited everything, the little there was.

Is it always the desire for MONEY that causes mankind
to do such horrible things to those we once loved?


21 posted on 03/21/2005 4:32:54 PM PST by reformjoy
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To: Zevonismymuse

We do not know if the cerebral cortex has been destroyed because there has never been an MRI, which is sthe definitive diagnose for PVS. There are reputable neurologists that insist that Terri can be rehabilitated. Why not give her a chanace? You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. What is her so-called husband afraid of and what are his motives for wanting her dead. He has never ever authorized and rehab or PT for her. In fact, her teeth are rotting for lack of proper medical care.


22 posted on 03/21/2005 4:33:46 PM PST by Daisy4
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To: goldstategop
My father had a mild heart attack in 1992.The end result was damage to the area of the heart that controls the beat.The doctors put in a pacemaker.
In 1995,while tending to the garden he always planted he had a second heart attack.He was 89.The damage that time was such that it was inevitable he would die within days, weeks or months as there was`nt enough good heart muscle left to sustain life.
Nature took its course and he died in a couple of weeks.
My point is what if we, his family had decided in 1992 that his life may not have been the quality it should have so we had the pacemaker removed,killing him.
Now,he was not brain damaged,he was functional so some would say this is apples and oranges.That would be correct for today,but if this is allowed to stand at what point do we slide down a slope arriving at this point.
Never happen.
I hope so,but look at how far we have come since the courts started taking God out of our day to day lives.

This will be the Roe v.Wade of the 21st century if this woman is allowed to starve to death without a full examination of her capacity and chance for some recovery.

How many of us would say that if paralyzed like Christopher Reeve that we would rather be dead.Yet after a tragedy like that occurs to someone they still have the resolve to live and make the most of their lives.
Dangerous ground that is being walked on here.

23 posted on 03/21/2005 4:40:34 PM PST by carlr
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To: goldstategop

I think there are plenty of people out there who claim they want to do what's in the best interest of their family member, but the TRUTH is that they do not want the burden of taking care of this person or seeing their loved one in a different state of life.

It's really a question of our VANITY. We are so vain that to have a family member in this state is bad and we justify terminating life because they wouldn't want to live "that way". There is no that way, it live or die.

I have a son who is autistic. He doesn't talk to me, he doesn't do all of the things that a normal little boy would do. If we are able to terminate life because we don't think they would want to live that way, what is to stop some bad parents from terminating their autistic son.

IT IS NOT THE RIGHT OF ANY LIVING BEING TO TAKE THE LIFE OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. WITHHOLDING WATER AND FOOD FROM TERRI IS THE SAME AS WITHHOLDING FOOD AND WATER TO A BABY. Neither one of them can do it themselves. I am ashamed that anyone in this country thinks it's okay to let someone starve to death. They could at least have the cojones to kill her immediately with some drug rather than let her wither away.


24 posted on 03/21/2005 4:41:59 PM PST by dannyboy72 (How long will you hold onto the rope when Liberals pull us off the cliff?)
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To: zot

ping for Rush's personal story.


25 posted on 03/21/2005 4:45:48 PM PST by GreyFriar (3rd Armored Division -- Spearhead)
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To: reformjoy

I have seen this happen, abetted by hospice nurses.


26 posted on 03/21/2005 4:45:53 PM PST by mlmr (Oh! I'm six months pregnant! Time to get Married and rake in gifts and cash!!)
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To: goldstategop

Rush is absolutely right on every aspect of the situation. We have in America from the beginning of the pro-abortion era a spirit of death hanging over us. It is a spirit that has been aloud to prosper and it will not stop until we see it for what it is.


27 posted on 03/21/2005 4:46:30 PM PST by hope (Choose Life! Deuteronomy 30:19)
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To: La Enchiladita

Bless you for being there for your Mom!


28 posted on 03/21/2005 4:47:01 PM PST by avenir (Life becomes cheaper when the cost for taking it does.)
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To: goldstategop

Sometimes I think Rush just runs his mouth, and I turn him off. But I caught this part of the program today, and I thought it was truly awesome, especially since much of the audience evidently disagrees with him. When he said, "The culture of death is seductive," I thought he really nailed it. It's easy to see why he is the king of talk radio.


29 posted on 03/21/2005 4:48:09 PM PST by madprof98
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To: Rakkasan1

LOL!!


30 posted on 03/21/2005 4:49:57 PM PST by curlewbird
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To: mlmr

Wow. So, it's not uncommon to starve someone
out of convenience.

The unknown horrors....


31 posted on 03/21/2005 4:54:48 PM PST by reformjoy
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To: carlr

Terri's parents love her very much to go this far. They have stood by her and have been battling for custody for her for years so she could be properly rehab. They have reason to believe foul play causing her brain damage to begin with because of initial xray reports, and I think this is one of the reasons they want this case thoroughly investigated by the Federal Court since Judge Greer refused to even consider it. But, the evidence is there.


32 posted on 03/21/2005 4:57:54 PM PST by Daisy4
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To: goldstategop
It is one thing to stop all "heroic" efforts to extend life. Thats a judgment call, and I won't pass judgment on someone who decides differently than I would have.

But there is nothing "heroic" about food and water. Forgo some surgery, and the sickness takes them. Stop food and water, and you have killed them, and there is no point telling yourself otherwise.

I don't know how many patients are actually killed already on the basis that they don't know what's going on, it's better for them, we need the bed, insurance isn't going to cover this, blah, blah, all these decisions.

I know of a similar case. I have no doubt that there are doctors and hospital administrators who will take the case in hand if they think you aren't going to make the right decision. It is too easy to reassign a machine that was keeping a patient alive, or fail to order a procedure that would have kept the patient alive, and few will notice or realize what you did. If they do, and they complain, just act compassionate and assure them that you did all you could.

33 posted on 03/21/2005 4:58:17 PM PST by marron
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To: dannyboy72

It is not the right......

Exactly. If a terminal cancer patient wants food and water, is it denied to him or her? Of course not!

If Terri is to die, it must be because of her condition, not by being starved! That way, it becomes INTENTIONAL!

Deathocrats, indeed!!


34 posted on 03/21/2005 5:00:47 PM PST by Grateful One
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To: Alexis the Bengal Kitty

Quote: she can open her eyes and it appears she is aware of her family member.


You do not know that. 3 reknown doctors that deal with these vegitative states said she is not aware. That the body "Automatically" senses changes in light, heat, noise etc just like a plant that perks up to sunlight.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this so hammer away. For sakes people it's been 15 years. Let he die with dignity.

Heck it was not that many years ago that Christians were against keeping people alive artificially because it was against God's plan.

Also many people are getting on the husband because he has another woman etc. How many of you on this site are divorced and left your wife/husband for a better one but are hammering Mike Sciavo for doing the same thing.


35 posted on 03/21/2005 5:01:28 PM PST by superiorslots
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To: goldstategop
By the way, Rush's grandmother died a natural death and his family didn't have to face being pressured to kill her.

Read it again. Rush thinks that they killed her. For the bed. Or insurance wouldn't cover it. One or the other.

36 posted on 03/21/2005 5:02:18 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: goldstategop

bump


37 posted on 03/21/2005 5:02:26 PM PST by queenkathy (Please, no more bad news this week end.)
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To: goldstategop

Once again Rush nails it BUMP!!


38 posted on 03/21/2005 5:04:23 PM PST by conservativecorner
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To: goldstategop

"You love life and we love death." al-Qaeda tape released on March 14, 2004


39 posted on 03/21/2005 5:04:26 PM PST by listenhillary (If it ain't broke, it will be after the government tries to fix it)
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To: goldstategop
I was watching Shepperd Smith on Fox News today and as he was reporting the facts he kept saying over and over "just examine the facts people don't use your emotion."

Folks, that's exactly why Terri is being starved to death. The people who have power over her have no emotions whatsoever. They have completely divorced themselves of her but, continue to rule over her as if she were just a fixture of inconvenience.

40 posted on 03/21/2005 5:06:50 PM PST by hope (Choose Life! Deuteronomy 30:19)
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To: dannyboy72

"...WITHHOLDING WATER AND FOOD FROM TERRI IS THE SAME AS WITHHOLDING FOOD AND WATER TO A BABY..."

This has got to be the best point made throughout this entire ordeal... wish the media would state this!!!!!
Great post... Thanks.


41 posted on 03/21/2005 5:07:45 PM PST by Terridan (God help us send these Islamic Extremist savages back into Hell where they belong...)
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To: mlmr

I can attest to the urging of death by hospice nurses, since my husband passed away with terminal brain cancer.
While hospice was "helping" him die, I was CONSTANTLY PRESSURED to make him wear a bracelet that said DNR!
I refused, so he wouldn't have to look at that bracelet everyday, reminding him he was on his way out.
They DIDNT WANT ME TO CALL AN AMBULANCE TO COST ANY $$$$$$
I also have a friend who was a caregiver to an elderly woman with terminal cancer who fell and broke her hip.(Extreme pain)
My friend was cussed out by hospice nurse for calling an ambulance, get it? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Their total goal (hidden agenda) is to save $$$, in spite of all the warm, mushy stories, some people just don't get it and follow their "orders" implicitly.


42 posted on 03/21/2005 5:08:48 PM PST by oreolady (new tagline, 11/3 OUR GW IS HERE TO STAY!!!)
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To: carlr
Good point. And just wait until the government health care costs grow even more over the next 20 years, and teh social secuirty system faces its strains. The government and many of the taxpayers will be looking at ways to keep spending down.

The government and the taxpayers will have an incentive to rid themselves of anyone who is a burden and the only people who will be safe will be those with close political connections or large personal fortunes. And as society's values change and "evolve", those with large personal fortunes might be the most vulnerable to charges of being a burden, or living a life not worth living.

43 posted on 03/21/2005 5:09:30 PM PST by Montfort (The Democrat Party -- The Party of Death)
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To: goldstategop
There's an actual energized enthusiasm for this woman's death out there..

He is right about this, big time right, and it crosses religious, political, economic lines. I think the energy is an energy of rationalization and justification. He's right, those who have 'let their folk go' have without doubt done so while considering inconveience and expense, it has not been done for the old folks good, it's been done for their own personal good, in many cases, IMO.

But if you point this out, people become enraged. Just like bigots and anti-semites do when you point out that you understand what motivates them.

44 posted on 03/21/2005 5:09:39 PM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: Bushforlife

Thank you for asking that. I have seen so many posters say, unequivocally, that Terri's cerebral cortex has been destroyed, is "liquified", etc. I haven't posted anything for over 24 hours so that I would have time to read everything I could find, on both sides, of this issue. I am a lawyer with over 15 years experience. Based on my research into the evidence that has been presented, the most you can say about this is that there is conflicting evidence and that further testing needs to be done before this can be confirmed or ruled out.


45 posted on 03/21/2005 5:09:44 PM PST by pollyg107
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To: goldstategop

My husband and I talked a lot about this over the weekend.

I think I have come to the conclusion that I would want to be on the feeding tube if insurance covered it. I would not want my husband paying to keep me alive because I would rather him spend our money on our kids.

I've also decided that it is time to have a living will.


46 posted on 03/21/2005 5:10:42 PM PST by luckystarmom
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To: superiorslots

If she is not aware then what difference does it make if her parents continued to take care of her?

Seems to be a no-lose situation. If she is aware, she should stay alive. If she is not, then what harm does it do?


47 posted on 03/21/2005 5:11:56 PM PST by Ramius (Hmmm... yeah, that'd be great...)
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To: avenir

Thanks. Bless you, too.


48 posted on 03/21/2005 5:14:10 PM PST by La Enchiladita (... the greatest of these is Love ...)
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To: zip

ping


49 posted on 03/21/2005 5:14:33 PM PST by Mrs Zip
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To: goldstategop

my mother also had a brain aneurysm. First they told us to prepare for her death. Then they told us she would be severely disabled. Then they talked to us like she wasn't there.

My mother made a 99% recovery.

I don't expect Terri to make a 99% recovery, or even a 25% recovery. It's been too long. But I do know that doctors sometimes don't know what the hell they are talking about. They don't know what is INSIDE someone's head.


I have a son on the autistic spectrum. When he was seven, a pediatric neurologist heard him make jokes, discourse about the solar system and solar fusion, and then the good doctor told me my son was just repeating stuff by rote; no original thoughts; and when he reached fourth grade he would hit a wall and stop progressing intellectually. My son is now sixteen and he has his difficulties, but he is both brilliant and original.


The whole PVS thing is garbage. A brain-damaged person can laugh, cry, groan, flinch, focus, even utter isolated words, and it is all reflex, no awareness. There is no way the brain-damaged person with intermittant awareness and inconsistant responses could ever prove anything to these know-it-alls.

When my son was 2 weeks old, I knew something was wrong. Took the doctors two years to see it. So when Terri's parents look at her and see response, I'm going to trust them and not the doctors.


50 posted on 03/21/2005 5:14:51 PM PST by heartwood
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