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To: mark502inf; GarySpFc; koba37; A. Pole
Well, nothing like that ever happened in the 8+ years since IFOR/SFOR arrived.

Really? Well aint that something. Funny, I remember at Eagle Base, those photos were given over to the Russian liaisons, two full bird colonels who took it to Uglavich, beside the half finished electric generator complex with the small 30 man US post beside it, and then went to brief the quarreling Serbs. Within a week the Serb military put an end to the quarrel between Pavolich (?sp) and the other serbs and the serbs were quickly also asking us for train and assist.

For a fact, the Bosnian islamics had a Ukrainian freighter (except it was Egyptian with a Ukrainian flag) arrive in June 1997 with 11 T-55s that they were unloading for them, as Clinton was handing them M60A3s. Further, for your FACT, there were 4 armed stand-offs with the Bosnian muslims in 1997 alone and 2 in 1996 some of which include fire. In the British sector they busted a Muslim base doing dry fire exercises on SFOR aircraft flying overhead. They got busted and the British were ordered to confiscate their equipment. The II Corp's commander told his men you give it up over your dead bodies. Thus started the first stand off. We were ordered to go in on the SE side of Tuzla to hit a Muslim post there that had similar equipment.

Seems you know a lot without knowing a lot. The Muslims were pulling mines out of their internal minefields and claiming them as the "stored" stuff while moving the good ones out to the border for their offensive (that thankfully didn't happen). The mud was so fresh on them they were still moist.

In 1996, the Muslims moved troops "settlers" into a border village that was abandoned in Serbska Republic. To defend themselves, these "settlers" brought in RPGs, 50 cal machineguns and 82mm mortors, every day home defense. Anyways, eventually they got forced to retreat, so they gathered up a huge force of militants and civilians and headed back, while the serbs called out their militia. US/Russian forces got put in the valley in between to keep both sides apart, while the two sides exchanged fire over their heads (this happened a month before we deployed in). We used black hawks and rotor wash to eventually displace the Muslim crowd and militants.

Apparently a lot of things happened of which you don't know.

32 posted on 04/02/2005 11:56:57 AM PST by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: mark502inf; Wraith; jb6; GarySpFc
Mark,

In a thread with Paratrooper_501 statement l have pointed towards weak points and inconsistencies in the story showing that it is a well crafted FABRICATION:

I have asked Paratrooper to explain glaring inconsistencies but he fled and evaded to answer the questions.

The most obvious is his claim that he saw no armed KLA on site. Yet, I have posted a photo of KLA terrorist in Walker's entourage.

This detail alone discredits Paratrooper_501 as an eyewitness.

But this is not the only flaw in his story.

I have pointed to more interesting details in #332.

Here it is, to save you a mouseclick:

>>>>>>DTA, what the evidence is consistent on--whether it be from villagers or observers, and as corroborated by the forensic study when applicable--is that Serb forces arrived at the village that morning, killed some villagers there, rounded up male survivors & took them that afternoon up the ravine where they were murdered by the Serbs.>>>>>

No the evidence is not consistent. You forgot that we have the eyewitness testimony Paratrooper_501 submitted to ICTY. I take this to be accurate for the purpose of having one firm point in the liquid story. And You trust him.

Paratrooper_501 wrote:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPTION

. I spoke to NAME DELETED [the same one I had spoke to the night before] a UCK military policeman. (The UCK have military policemen who also fight but are utilized to enforce certain orders or laws of the UCK. They are used to guard premises occupied by the UCK high command and othe sentry duties. They wear armbands with the initials PU on them which is Albanian equivalent of MP. They also dress completely in black uniforms and wear black berets.) NAME DELETED told me that thee had been no civilians hurt in Petrova as he had rounded them up the day before and sent them to a safer place. He told me that he had heard through another source that the police had taken a group of people into the mountains near Racak and slit their throats. Apparently a boy had seen that and got away. I asked if he knew about a group of men being shot. He said he did not know that.

About 20 minutes later, Femi returned. At that point he did not know any more than the night before. A short time later, a UCK policeman came in with a list of manes of civilians who had been killed. At that time there was about 20 names. Another soldier came in and gave Femi another piece of paper with additional civilian casualties, about 15 names. Femi appeared distraught at the sight of the names he received.

I will pause here:

For numerically challenged this means that around 35 names (20 + 15) were provided by KLA MP (UCK PU) BEFORE information about people killed in a gully CAME IN. When 23 (number of dead in a gully) is added to known number of 35 we get 58 dead civilians according to KLA. This is around 13 more than official ICTY toll.

Paratrooper_501 continues:

"...Reports came in at that stage that there had been some sort of mass killing at Racak.Between 0800-0830 I told Femi that it was important that we go and check Racak to ascertain what happened."

To recapitulate:

KLA knew 'from other source' that group of people was killed with their throats slit because it was reported by an eyewitness. yet, they did not go to investigate.

KLA provided the names of 35 dead civilians BEFORE the infopmation of massacre came from Racak around 800. When the number of 23 people killed is added, it makes 58 people.

There was a false eye witness who witnessed people being killed and their throats slit. We know that this was not true. Something is not matching, and this is key detail. Source here are UCK Police and KDOM.

Vilagers were in a gully at 4AM, and were advised by 'someone' not to move corpses. Yet the corpses were moved.

Then, we have a two opposing accounts from the same eyewitness who escape the killing (Remi Shabani). In one account, Shabani claims that he had heard police walke-talkie conversation between police marching them to execution and police waiting to execute them. According to him, there were 29 people. Shabani run in hale of bullets, one bullet hitting his belt. In another account, by his mother, Shabani has SEEN the police and escaped before they started shooting. Shabani was 34. His father also escaped. We do not know what happened with 4 more people (29 minus Rami Shabani minus his father - 23 killed = 4)

These are not insignifficant details.

First of all, Serbs did not have a motive to kill civilians, KLA had. Serbs were watched 24/7 since October 1998 Activation order. CUI BONO seems to be forgotten in Racak case.

Yet, Serbs seemingly acted like madmen, KLA did not go to investigate slit throats killing, families did not go to investigate if there are survivors of 3PM shooting but chatted with OSCE observers instead, OSCE did not hear walkie talkie converstion of 29 people going to be killed and so on.

We also know that fierce battle between POlice and KLA erupted when police came to take the bodies from Racak for post mortem investigation. My memory is weak at this point, but if I remember correctly, 17 Serbian police were killed. it seems that KLA was very interested to PREVENT post mortem, as well as CSI RECONSTRUCTION a year later.

In other words, the conclusion is drawn from "Serb police was in the village, they did it."

We also know that OSCE wanted to sack Walker as nuisance in March becasuse of all these discrepancies. But the bombing started anyway and thousands were killed as a consequence.

When KLA officials were warned that NATO air strikes against Yugoslavia would trigger retaliatory violence by Serb forces in Kosovo, the Chicago Tribune reported one KLA leader as saying: "We don’t care. 400,000 Kosovars can be sacrificed for our independence."

Perhaps Serbian police killed the men in a gully. Perhaps. But guilt is not proven BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.

332 posted on 11/19/2004 4:21:01 PM EST by DTA (proud pajamista)

39 posted on 04/02/2005 4:39:53 PM PST by DTA
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To: jb6
jb6, what you said: the Islamics were moving in secret weapons from other islamics getting ready to run us over to get at the Serbs.

What I said: nothing like that ever happened in the 8+ years since IFOR/SFOR arrived

You then posted a lot of info about weapons. We're talking past each other--my point was that in no cases did the Bosniaks or anyone else "run us over" or even try to and we never suffered a casualty to hostile action. Further, significant fighting between the factions was brought to a halt--the mission was a success.

As to how the hostile factions in the Balkans stockpiled & moved & hid arms and ammunition--that was well known--as General Joulwan described pinning down the locations of the arms caches in Bosnia (showing his age & the age of all of us who understood the reference), it was like trying to find Nathan Detroit's craps game.

Having said all that--again, what do your Bosnia experiences have to do with Racak?

43 posted on 04/03/2005 5:44:41 AM PDT by mark502inf
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