Posted on 04/04/2005 8:06:29 AM PDT by tessalu
I hope the DA will indict very, very soon.
I said nothing about turning emotions on and off. I was very precise in saying it is a choice to participate in them.
"You are quibbling when you say, "I don't indulge in hope and fear." instead of "I leave hope and fear to the superstitious."
What point was I quibbling? I don't indulge my emotions, others do, I can't do anything about what others do so I leave them to it. That's not rocket science.
This is one of the most emotionally stories of the year and you tell me your emotions don't affect your opinions? Hogwash!
Believe what you like. It's your choice.
Believe what you like. It's your choice
Thank you.
As I've previously stated, we need to face the truth about euthanasia squarely. What happened in the Schiavo case is not unique. Removal of feeding tubes and other life-sustaining measures is quite common. All of it is euthanasia by omission, even if our lawmakers, judges, and even we, ourselves, do not want to face that truth.
As I also stated in the part of my post you quoted, euthanasia is illegal in most states. If the lawyers for the Schindlers had argued this point -- that removal of Terri's feeding tube was euthanasia, which is illegal under Florida statute -- they would have had a stronger case, in my opinion. In fact, it is at least possible that the U.S. Supreme Court might have heard the case on that basis, depending on how the lower courts ruled.
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Jim, if you would only exercise the leadership necessary to encourage everyone to climb down from the overheated rhetoric being tossed about here lately, perhaps we could all examine the wider issues highlighted by the Schiavo case with cool heads and clear eyes.
The Schindlers' lawyers made a lot of mistakes in their handling of this case. In my opinion, the breathtakingly overheated rhetoric seen here on FR and elsewhere in conservative and religious circles over this case has only compounded their errors.
There is much that can be done to ensure that Terri Schiavo did not die in vain. But we can't do anything positive if we are unnecessarily at each other's throats. Jim, you have an opportunity to step up to the plate here and become not just a nice man who started an interesting website, but a great man who will have done something extraordinary by leading people to examine ALL the lessons of the Schiavo case.
You didn't read my post very carefully, did you? I said being denied food and water BY MOUTH, not by feeding tube. It is documented that Judge Greer prohibited even attempts to feed Terri by mouth. What reason do you suppose would he have to order this?
I'll give you my opinion - because if the attempt was successful the two pillars of his judgments would come tumbling down - 1)that Terri is in PVS (how can someone is this state engage in such an activity) and 2)that Terri would want to be starved to death (accepting food and water presented to her shows her desire to live).
You're not actually attempting to claim that a full de novo hearing of this case was done by Judge Whittemore in the short span of time the case was before him, are you?
Because it's difficult for someone to starve if they're being fed? I though that was kind of obvious.
how can someone is this state engage in such an activity
Because the swallow reflex of a PVS patient remains intact. They swallow their own saliva all the time.
accepting food and water presented to her shows her desire to live
See previous. It would show nothing.
Tell the Media to report the REAL Schiavo polls!
http://capwiz.com/sicminc/issues/alert/?alertid=7351686&type=ME
My account, etc. of Terri Schindler's Funeral Mass:
http://tekgnosis.typepad.com
The way I look at it, the fight is just as important to protect our rights, regardless.
Some of us are disabled now, some of us will be before we die, and to not have our wishes followed, and to be stuck in a hell that we must simply endure...is a nightmare.
How about fighting for the right to live or die, as we choose, and having that respected?
Yes, it is but you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
Those who engage in such hysterical name-calling are usually unable to articulate coherant and convincing arguments so they really aren't worth your time.
I find when things get too heated and out of control it is better to just ignore them.
Take a break from FR for a day or two if you have to. It isn't worth getting an ulcer over.
So I take it you voted for Kerry.
How did that work out for you, Zippy?
Why should I take a day off? Let the mouth-breathers take a day off!
Awesome comment, thank you.
Well then, more power to you.
I do feel better knowing there are people like you on the front lines who won't give an inch to these Neanderthals.
No, I didn't vote for the bunny. Please look at my tag line. "The voice from beyond the edge". I stay ahead of pack by staying informed. I read at least an hour a day on political issues.
Now for Cheney, If you didn't get my response it was / our Republican leaders DON'T HAVE ANY NUTS.
And to back that up look at the crimes of Sandy Burger and the crimes of our leaders not taking him to justice. It smells so bad in Washington I have not idea how We The People are ever going to clean it out.
Don't think that they didn't. Food and hydration can't be removed, by FL statute, unless the patient is terminal or PVS. PVS is defined by FL statute for legal purposes. None of the multitudinous vague medical definitions of PVS have legal standing. A doctor (or anyone else) should be testifying as to whether a patient fits the legal criteria.
The Schindlers had poor legal representation, that is true. But that doesn't account for the completely one-sided acceptance, by Judge Greer, of testimony presented by Schiavo/Felos and near 100% rejection of testimony presented by the Schindlers attorneys. They had numerous doctors of greater reputation who spent far more time with Terri and her records who disputed the PVS diagnosis but their testimony was ruled inadmissable.
Greer accepted what he wanted, as is his prerogative, but what he accepted is contrary to FL law by any standard of reason.
765.101 Definitions.--As used in this chapter:(12) "Persistent vegetative state" means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is: (a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of any kind. (b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.
You've seen video of Terri and you know what the word unconsciousness means. Conditions (a) and (b) don't even come into play if the patient doesn't fit the opening criteria here.
A brain damaged but otherwise healthy woman was starved and dehydrated to death by the order of one judge who actively obstructed everything that might call his judgment and authority into question.
As you point out such rulings are unnecessary when the patient is truly PVS and the court's rulings are able to stand scrutiny.
Completely untrue. People who are PVS can't swallow their saliva or anything else. That's just false.
LOL What kind of neurotic nut-case would get an ulcer over an internet chat forum?
No, it's true, some can. It depends on the patient. Thus, the ability to swallow can't be used to determine PVS.
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