The Temple Mount's Jewish History: More Than a Matter of Faith

Camera ^ | 11APR05 | Tamar Sternthal

[longtermmemmory]

how about the return of Agia Sophia to the exclusive use of the Christians?

[familyop]

Josephus and Philo made some interesting comments regarding Pontius Pilate--very much in contradiction to what the Romans later revised about him.

[Radix]

"Too few people know about 586 and 70."

Fundamentalist Christians and eschatoligists are obsessed with the events of 586(BC) and 70 (AD).

I have known many Jews who apparantly know less about the events of those years than many Christian fundamentalists (including eschatologists)do.

On the other hand, most Catholics and followers of traditional Protestantism are quite uninformed of the significance of those years.

[djmv]

Do tell, or at least provide some links. I have always had the impression that Pilate was not a very effective leader, often bowing to pressure from a number of directions. I would assume, being closely aligned to Titus, that Josephus would not have a glowing opinion of Pilate. Since Titus was sent to clean up after Pilate, or to clean up what Rome saw as Pilate's mess. That would also lead me to believe that Titus would be pretty zealous in his destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, in order to impress his commanders in Rome and to show that he would not be another Pilate.

[Radix]

 Titus (the Roman general ordered to destroy Jerusalem), Josephus (the Jewish historian that many see as a traitor) and Eleazar (a leader of the Jewish rebels at Masada) all state that the temple was completely destroyed. Even scriptures prophesied that no two stones would be left on top of each other, yet the Western Wall shows a lot of stones still in place. When Muhammad arrived, unaware of historical documents showing the temple was completely destroyed, he designated the largest ruins he could find as the Temple Mount and everyone accepted that as true. Then the "we took your temple" fighting began, as I believe was the intention.

 

" Even scriptures prophesied that no two stones would be left on top of each other, yet the Western Wall shows a lot of stones still in place."

 

I suggest that you read it again in context.  Here is a clue.

 

"BUILDINGS!"

 

Matthew 24:1 (verse below the one that you are quoting.)

 

 

Matthew 24:2 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

   ²And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

---

 Matthew 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matthew 24:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)

 

[djmv]

I would like to reiterate, I am an armchair archaeologist and historian here. I am simply throwing out a possible argument here, I wouldn't even go as far as to say that I have researched it thoroughly and believe this argument to be accurate or true...just interesting.

I understand their may have been more than one building, but that is still a HUGE foundation. A scale map of the Temple dimensions dwarfs it on the foundation of the traditional Temple Mount, and why build a foundation so large to accommodate buildings that may or may not surround the temple in the future?

I also know there was the practice of building new foundations on top of previous ruins, and that many believe the first Temple ruins may actually be some of the hollow cavities known to be in the foundation of the Temple Mount. I saw very compelling arguments for this, in research done after the tunnel was burrowed through the foundation of the Temple Mount, several years ago. Several chambers were found that matched the dimensions of different elements of the Temple. The tunnel is now closed, and it is a shame that more research cannot be done there.

I, personally, think that the attitude of Rome in 70AD would have been total destruction, not just clearing off the foundation. Either Josephus or Eleazar actually stated that there was nothing but a grassy hill where the Temple once stood.

I just like to discuss these issues, and think there should be more discussion on it. I also think the Israeli military should be strong enough to stop any bulldozers or dump-trucks that attempt to access the Temple Mount. Whatever is within the foundations of the Temple Mount, it is a very important part of WORLD history.

[Radix]

It is true that Joshephus is despised by many Jews. The man was more interested (it has been attested) in protecting his own skin than he ever was in documenting an accurate portrayal of certain events of his times. In other words he was a suck up to the Romans.

I cannot say with certainty anything because I also was not there.

I did not mean to come down very hard on you, I just wanted to point out that when the scriptures are quoted concerning the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, it is rarely mentioned that the comments were specifically concerning the buildings and not the wall around them.

[Salem]

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[familyop]

Were you referring to Joseph Caiaphas, who was appointed for a long tenure (ten years, IIRC) by the Romans (as all were after Herod) and later discharged with his buddy, Pilate, by the Governor Vitellius? Or were you referring to the historian, Flavius Josephus?

Pilate, with his desecrations, murders (including mass murders) and other infuriating maneuvers, caused the Jews to riot a number of times. He was eventually recalled to Rome because of his cruel and unjust methods. See Book XVIII, Antiquities, and Book II, War of the Jews. The Works of Flavius Josephus
Translated by William Whiston
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/josephus/josephus.htm

Philo mentioned “his [Pilate's] venality, his violence, his thefts, his assaults, his abusive behavior, his frequent executions of untried prisoners, and his endless savage ferocity” (Legatio ad Gaium 302).

Some Christian churches sainted Pontius Pilate (as some sainted his wife), BTW. Others are considering doing so. It's interesting, to say the least, to know that so many are praying to them.

[185JHP]

Jerusalem is not mentioned in the muslim unholy book...

[TASMANIANRED]

The first thing Islam did when they moved in to an area after the slaughter was to build a mosque on the holy sites of the conquered.

That is why many Mosques in the Eurasian locals are former Christian churches. San Sophia is the most notable example for Christians.

[dervish]

You would never know it from the way the world treats the Golden Calf Dome.

[familyop]

BTW, Philo's Legatio ad Gaium is also one of the few sources on Gaius' (Caligula's) reign (years 37-41).

Good keywords for a study of early Christianity (authors and canonization of the New Testament) are Eusebius, Tertullian, Marcion, Irenaeus, Clement, Jerome, Augustine, Paul, Tarsus, and Cilicia.

[Daisy4]

Solomon
By Shira Schoenberg
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Solomon.html

The biblical King Solomon was known for his wisdom, his wealth and his writings. He became ruler in approximately 967 B.C.E. and his kingdom extended from the Euphrates River in the north to Egypt in the south. His crowning achievement was the building of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. Almost all knowledge of him is derived from the biblical books of Kings I and Chronicles II.

Solomon was the son of King David and Bathsheba. Solomon was not the oldest son of David, but David promised Bathsheba that Solomon would be the next king. When David’s elder son Adonijah declared himself king, David ordered his servants to bring Solomon to the Gihon spring where the priest anointed him while David was still alive. Solomon inherited a considerable empire from his father.

At first Solomon was faced with opposition. Two of David’s closest advisors, Joab son of Zeruiah and the priest Abiathar, sided with Adonijah. When Adonijah came to Solomon and requested the king’s servant as a wife, Solomon saw that this was a veiled threat to take over his kingdom and sent a messenger to kill Adonijah. He banished Abiathar to the city of Anathoth. Solomon then followed his father’s last instructions in which David had ordered him to kill both Joab and one of his father’s enemies, Shimei son of Gera. Solomon thus overcame the last potential threats to his kingdom. He then appointed his friends to key military, governmental and religious posts.

Solomon accumulated enormous wealth. He controlled the entire region west of the Euphrates and had peace on his borders. Kings I states that he owned 12,000 horses with horsemen and 1,400 chariots. Remains of stalls for 450 horses have in fact been found in Megiddo. Solomon strengthened his kingdom through marital alliances. Kings I records that he had 700 wives and 300 concubines, although some regard this number as an exaggeration.2 He had a large share in the trade between northern and southern countries. He established Israelite colonies around his province to look after military, administrative and commercial matters. The empire was divided into twelve districts, with Judah constituting its own political unit and enjoying certain privileges.

Although Solomon was young, he soon became known for his wisdom. The first and most famous incident of his cleverness as a judge was when two women came to his court with a baby whom both women claimed as their own. Solomon threatened to split the baby in half. One woman was prepared to accept the decision, but the other begged the King to give the live baby to the other woman. Solomen then knew the second woman was the mother.

People from surrounding nations also came to hear Solomon’s wisdom. He composed 3,000 proverbs and 1,005 songs. He wrote the Song of Songs, the Book of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.

One of the most celebrated visits to Solomon was that of the Queen of Sheba, who came from southern Arabia. Historically, Arabia was a country rich in gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Solomon needed Sheba’s products and trade routes; the queen of Sheba needed Solomon’s cooperation in marketing her country’s goods. The queen came to Solomon with camels carrying spices, gold and precious stones. She asked him questions and riddles and was amazed at his wisdom.

****Once Solomon’s empire was tranquil, he began to build the Holy Temple. He received wood from King Hiram of Tyre and imposed a compulsory labor service on both the Israelites and the foreign nations that were under his control. His workers built the structure of the Temple, its decorations and its vessels. The Temple took seven years to complete. It was built of stone and cedar, carved within and overlaid with pure gold. When it was done, Solomon dedicated the Temple in a public ceremony of prayers and sacrifices.****

Solomon was also renowned for his other building projects in which he used slave labor from the Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. He spent 13 years building his own palace, and also built a city wall, a citadel called the Millo, a palace for the daughter of Pharaoh (who was one of his wives) and facilities for foreign traders. He erected cities for chariots and horsemen and created storage cities. He extended Jerusalem to the north and fortified cities near the mountains of Judah and Jerusalem.

Solomon’s downfall came in his old age. He had taken many foreign wives, whom he allowed to worship other gods. He even built shrines for the sacrifices of his foreign wives. Within Solomon’s kingdom, he placed heavy taxation on the people, who became bitter. He also had the people work as soldiers, chief officers and commanders of his chariots and cavalry. He granted special privileges to the tribes of Judah and this alienated the northern tribes. The prophet Ahijah of Shiloh prophesied that Jeroboam son of Nebat would become king over ten of the 12 tribes, instead of one of Solomon’s sons.

Outside Solomon’s kingdom, Hadad, of the royal family of Edom, rose up as an adversary of Israel. Rezon son of Eliada, ruler of Aram also fought Solomon, and created tension between the two kingdoms that was to last even after Solomon’s reign ended.

Solomon died in Jerusalem after 40 years as ruler of Israel. He was buried in the City of David. His son, Rehoboam succeeded him as king. Under Rehobaum’s rule, Solomon’s empire was lost and his kingdom was divided into two parts.


Sources:

Compton’s Encyclopedia Online. "Solomon". The Learning Company, Inc, 1998.
Encyclopedia Britannica. "Solomon". Volume 10, 15th Edition, 1997.
Encyclopedia Judaica. "Solomon." 1978 Edition.
Scriptures: Kings I, Chronicles II. The Jewish Publication Society’s translation, New York: 1985.

[Daisy4]

Note the verse from the Koran acknowledges the Temple was ALREADY IN PLACE BEFORE the Journey.

---

The Temple Mount - the Haram-esh-Sharif

"Then Solomon began to build the Temple of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah. It was on the threshing-floor of Araunah the Jebusite, the place provided by David, his father." (2 Chronicles 3:1)

"Glory be to Him who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Sanctuary to the farthest Sanctuary, whose precincts We did bless...." (The Koran, Sura Al-Isra’ 17:1)

***The Temple Mount (Heb., Har Habayit; Arabic, Haram esh-Sharif, the Noble Sanctuary),is identified in both Jewish and Islamic tradition as the area of Mount Moriah where Abraham offered up his son in sacrifice (Genesis 22:1-18; the Koran, Sura Al-Saffat 37:102-110).***

Here King Solomon built the First Temple almost 3,000 years ago. It was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE, but 70 years later Jews returning from exile built the Second Temple on the same site. King Herod refashioned it into an edifice of great splendor.

In Muslim tradition, the place is also identified as the "furthermost sanctuary" (Arabic, masjid al-aksa) from which the Prophet Mohammed, accompanied by the Angel Gabriel, made the Night Journey to the Throne of God (The Koran, Sura Al-Isra’ 17:1).

Following the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in the year 70, the area of the Temple was deliberately left in ruins (first by the Romans, then by the Byzantines). This desecration was not redressed until the Muslim conquest of the city by the Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab in 638. He ordered the clearing of the site and the building of a "house of prayer".

Some 50 years later, the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik built the Dome of the Rock to enshrine the outcrop of bedrock believed to be the "place of the sacrifice" on Mount Moriah. He (or his son, the Caliph al-Walid I) also built the large mosque at the southern end of the Haram, which came to be called al-Aksa after the Koranic name attributed to the entire area.

The Dome of the Rock (Arabic, Qubbat al-Sakhra) is one of the architectural glories of the world, and the only early Islamic sanctuary to have survived intact. The design of the building is basically Byzantine - double octagonal ambulatories encircling the Holy Rock. A shrine and not a mosque, it is the third holiest place in Islam after the Ka’aba in Mecca and the Prophet’s Mosque in Medina.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/geo/Mount.html#dome

[SunkenCiv]

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[lonevoice]

Very interesting comments here. I think you'd enjoy reading this thread.