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More and More, Kids say the Foulest Things (swearing)
The Washington Post ^ | 04/12/04 | Valerie Strauss

Posted on 04/12/2005 10:06:43 AM PDT by crv16

Dan Horwich's English class is a bastion of clean language, where students read the classics and have weighty discussions free of invective and profanity. But when the bell rings and they walk out his door, the hallway vibrates with talk of a different sort.

"The kids swear almost incessantly," said Horwich, who teaches at Guildford High School in Rockford, Ill. "They are so used to swearing and hearing it at home, and in the movies, and on TV, and in the music they listen to that they have become desensitized to it."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: civility; culturalentropy; decencydeficit; profanity; pspl; swearing
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My oldest daughter has experienced this vulgarity when she arrived at a City HS this past fall. Her previous surburban middle school didn't tolerate foul language, but the HS has ignored this problem largely.
1 posted on 04/12/2005 10:06:43 AM PDT by crv16
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To: crv16

I am 33 years old, my mother never allowed us to say anything. Never the Lords name in vain, booty, nothing. To this day if I say something she doesnt approve of, I hear about it.


2 posted on 04/12/2005 10:11:20 AM PDT by duck duck goose
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To: crv16
Our school does not allow foul language at ANY time, before, during, or after classes.

The principal (me) does not stand for it (homeschool)...
3 posted on 04/12/2005 10:11:30 AM PDT by politicket
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To: crv16

Mouth meet soap. And that goes for adults using foul language around children.


4 posted on 04/12/2005 10:11:37 AM PDT by Gabz (John Paul II, pray for us.)
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To: crv16

Just the beginning of the end...


5 posted on 04/12/2005 10:11:41 AM PDT by One Proud Dad
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To: crv16

> the HS has ignored this problem largely

Good! The notion of being shocked, SHOCKED by people using dirty words is just tragically sad.


6 posted on 04/12/2005 10:12:05 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: crv16

Well, who's parenting the kids.


7 posted on 04/12/2005 10:12:13 AM PDT by k2blader (Immorality bites.)
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To: orionblamblam
Good! The notion of being shocked, SHOCKED by people using dirty words is just tragically sad.

You're such a noble sort. Grow up!
8 posted on 04/12/2005 10:13:17 AM PDT by politicket
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To: orionblamblam

Another proponent of Cultural Entropy, I see.

Tell me again how dirty words enrich us as a society?


9 posted on 04/12/2005 10:15:53 AM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (I'm an "outraged moralist" and I have no good argument. I'm headed to Marie Callender's.)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: crv16

I have a passion for westerns, but couldn't get through one episode of HBO's "Deadwood".


11 posted on 04/12/2005 10:17:06 AM PDT by Spok
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To: crv16

Well if all the obscene words simply become normal expletives, everyone will forget their original meaning.

Therefore, new obscene words will have to be invented to replace them.


12 posted on 04/12/2005 10:17:53 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: ReadyNow
Another aspect of Negro culture, being adopted by the non-Negro mainstream.

OK...you people are beginning to concern me on this thread. This has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with lack of discipline in the schools.

Kids were cussing back in the 50's, but they weren't doing it in front of adults. We now live in a society where "tolerance" is celebrated at the expense of moral correctness.
13 posted on 04/12/2005 10:19:26 AM PDT by politicket
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To: politicket

Heh, I was the victim of a similarly intolerant homeschooling environment. I've found I can no more use foul language than I can fly - odd what that day-in, day-out condition does to one.

I think the use of "dirty words" indicates a poor vocabulary and inability to communicate. I'm trying to break at least my female friends of their swearing habits but they just don't see the problem.


14 posted on 04/12/2005 10:19:28 AM PDT by JenB
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To: ReadyNow

Don't be daft. This isn't about race, it's about values.


15 posted on 04/12/2005 10:20:32 AM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (I'm an "outraged moralist" and I have no good argument. I'm headed to Marie Callender's.)
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To: JenB

Keep ministering to your friends, and be VERY careful about associating yourself with them if they refuse to change! (Spoken to you from a homeschool dad ;-) )


16 posted on 04/12/2005 10:21:14 AM PDT by politicket
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To: politicket
This has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with lack of discipline in the schools.

You are correct it has nothing to do with race. But you are incorrect that it has everything to do with a lack of discipline in schools...........the lack of discipline comes from the parents.

17 posted on 04/12/2005 10:21:20 AM PDT by Gabz (John Paul II, pray for us.)
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To: Choose Ye This Day

> Tell me again how dirty words enrich us as a society?

Tell me again how dirty words hurt us as a society. Is it the word itself that you fear, or the feeling behind it?


18 posted on 04/12/2005 10:21:30 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: ReadyNow

At my lily-white elementary school back in the early and mid-1980s, kids would swear all the time. Of course, there were never any adults around.


19 posted on 04/12/2005 10:21:35 AM PDT by Clemenza (Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms: The Other Holy Trinity)
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To: ReadyNow

Viking Kitties: Cleanup on Aisle Six....


20 posted on 04/12/2005 10:22:15 AM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: crv16

Now admittedly I use such language time to time, but not around ladies, nor children. But some I know figure it's OK anytime, anywhere. I just don't get that.


21 posted on 04/12/2005 10:22:44 AM PDT by theDentist (The Dems are putting all their eggs in one basket-case: Howard "Belltower" Dean.)
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To: proxy_user
Therefore, new obscene words will have to be invented to replace them.

I suggest "French". It could be pretty much a drop-in replacement. "That mother-frencher is so frenching stupid." "French you, you french-hole." And so forth.

22 posted on 04/12/2005 10:22:57 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: politicket

This morning on the train I heard the most horrible language along with vile racial epithets . . . all coming from several African-American middle schoolers. It was sad to see them use the "n word" so profusely.


23 posted on 04/12/2005 10:24:16 AM PDT by piceapungens
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To: politicket

Well, for a lot of them it's just habit, nobody's ever told them not to use that sort of language. Around a campus, students think it's "cool" and "adult" to use foul language.

I've known some people who, after years of talking like sailors, try to clean up their speech and find that it's become such a habit, they have real trouble not using it.


24 posted on 04/12/2005 10:24:56 AM PDT by JenB
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To: Gabz
But you are incorrect that it has everything to do with a lack of discipline in schools...........the lack of discipline comes from the parents.

I'm going to have to slightly disagree with you on this Gabz.

The public school system has the children embargoed during a very substantial part of each weekday, spending much more time with the child than the working parent(s).

There is a tremendous amount of peer pressure that occurs during the average school day and oftentimes a child will succumb to it (even though they go home and speak properly).

Don't kid yourself that this isn't happening. I see it all of the time.
25 posted on 04/12/2005 10:25:16 AM PDT by politicket
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To: JenB

> I think the use of "dirty words" indicates a poor vocabulary and inability to communicate.

Incorrect. Dirty words are just words, with more emotional connotation. Granted, some people don;t know how to utter a sentence without using them; this is not a sign of moral decaly but, as you suggest, a sign that they are not well educated. However, certain words and phrases are STAGGERINGLY effective at getting across emotional responses. Consider a few days ago, when I found I need to go in for surgery that will leave me scarred and in agony. I'm sorry, but "gosh" and "darn" just didn't cut it. Something a bit more colorful was called for.


26 posted on 04/12/2005 10:25:40 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: general_re

You got a frenching problem?


27 posted on 04/12/2005 10:25:56 AM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: proxy_user
Therefore, new obscene words will have to be invented to replace them.

... which to some extent is what already happened. Nobody seems to say 'zounds' anymore.

28 posted on 04/12/2005 10:26:19 AM PDT by SedVictaCatoni (<><)
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To: orionblamblam
Tell me again how dirty words hurt us as a society. Is it the word itself that you fear, or the feeling behind it?

It's known as disrespect, both to those that you're speaking to, and those in you immediate surroundings. Only fools speak with that kind of tongue.
29 posted on 04/12/2005 10:27:00 AM PDT by politicket
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To: general_re

It's interesting you say that. Most of the barnyard, sexual, and body part swear words are the ones that come from German origin. The words of French origin are the ones that are considered polite. Sexual intercourse, derriere, manure - all French. I'll let the rest of you think up the German replacements.

So at its hearts, the ban on these words is a racist assessment that the Germans are too course and crude in their language to be used in polite company.


30 posted on 04/12/2005 10:27:04 AM PDT by mongrel
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To: Gabz
But you are incorrect that it has everything to do with a lack of discipline in schools...........the lack of discipline comes from the parents.

I think you're wrong. My (admittedly more or less adult) friends go through a remarkable language transformation when their parents or other authority figures are around. And I rarely hear kids with parents in earshot using the major baddies, at least. It's always when they're just with each other.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the schools (although I wish they'd use the soap treatment!) but negative peer pressure.

31 posted on 04/12/2005 10:27:24 AM PDT by JenB
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To: general_re

> I suggest "French".

Tried that myself, actually. Back in 2003, when that silly "Freedom Fries" thing came up, my response was not to remove France from vocabulary, but to *add* it. "I had to go to the frenchroom and take a chirac, but there wasn't a roll of francepaper."

But to be truly effective, a good expletive has to *sound* harsh. And French... just doesn't.


32 posted on 04/12/2005 10:29:00 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: Constitution Day
You're my frenching problem, pal...

;)

33 posted on 04/12/2005 10:29:46 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: orionblamblam
"I had to go to the frenchroom and take a chirac, but there wasn't a roll of francepaper."

LOL! Excellent.

34 posted on 04/12/2005 10:30:09 AM PDT by Skooz (Host organism for the State parasite)
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To: politicket

> It's known as disrespect, both to those that you're speaking to, and those in you immediate surroundings.

Hogwash. How is it disrespectful?

> Only fools speak with that kind of tongue.

Now THAT is disrespectful. Perhaps you should remove the word "fool" from your vocabulary?


35 posted on 04/12/2005 10:30:16 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: theDentist

"But some I know figure it's OK anytime, anywhere. I just don't get that."

I too can cuss like a sailor when the surrounding and circumstance permit. By in large silent and in counsel to myself. (I cuss to myself but I rarely cuss back!)

I spend a lot of time in sales meetings at other peoples places of business. Occasionally, you run into people who cuss up a storm in business meetings in mixed company. I never understood that. I prefer to refrain and let people think I'm stupid. I rarely go on a tirade and remove any remaining doubt.


36 posted on 04/12/2005 10:30:17 AM PDT by IamConservative (To worry is to misuse your imagination.)
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37 posted on 04/12/2005 10:30:25 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: orionblamblam

Well, sorry that "darn" doesn't cut it for you. But I never hear foul language 'in context'. It just litters the conversation the way broken beer bottles litter a hiking trail - and with similar effect.

You only need stronger words if you use the less-strong ones frequently. I don't say "drat" often, but when I do it has the effect for me that the f-word has for some of my colleagues.

Foul language is like auditory smoking; do it all you like, but I'm not going to hang around while you do so.


38 posted on 04/12/2005 10:31:29 AM PDT by JenB
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To: piceapungens
This morning on the train I heard the most horrible language along with vile racial epithets . . . all coming from several African-American middle schoolers. It was sad to see them use the "n word" so profusely.

Why were those children on the train this morning. Were they on they're way to the local public schools where such trash is tolerated?

Black schoolchildren are at somewhat of a disadvantage just because there are so many black fathers that are non-existent in the family. Those that run away from their responsibilities like to think that they are men, but they are really just weak-spined wimps that have no moral fortitude whatsoever.
39 posted on 04/12/2005 10:31:43 AM PDT by politicket
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To: Spok
I have a passion for westerns, but couldn't get through one episode of HBO's "Deadwood".

I have to say, the writing in that show is supurb. Even the swearing fits perfectly.

40 posted on 04/12/2005 10:32:40 AM PDT by Modernman ("I'm in favor of limited government unless it limits what I want government to do."- dirtboy)
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To: orionblamblam; Constitution Day
But to be truly effective, a good expletive has to *sound* harsh. And French... just doesn't.

It's all in the delivery. Or maybe the usage - "French Eye for the Straight Guy" has a certain ring to it....

41 posted on 04/12/2005 10:32:54 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: Gabz
...the lack of discipline comes from the parents.

While I mostly agree with you, the vast success of the athiest liberals of injecting their secular values (or lack thereof) into the public school system makes it an environment where kids of very good, disciplining parents are going to be exposed to the garbage that our liberal friends love so much.

Begin flood of home schooling posts in 3...2...1

42 posted on 04/12/2005 10:33:50 AM PDT by Pookee
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To: JenB
I've known some people who, after years of talking like sailors, try to clean up their speech and find that it's become such a habit, they have real trouble not using it.

Foul language is very tough to stop once you start it. The book of Proverbs tells that to us very clearly.

Your friends that are serious about stopping need to remove themselves from the company of those that have no desire to control their tongues.
43 posted on 04/12/2005 10:33:52 AM PDT by politicket
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To: crv16

On a side note, in addition to foul language being cool in both genders, I understand from my 16 year old daugther that it is becoming the in thing for the chicks to fart loudly when they are hanging out together.

I thought that was man ground that would never be encroached by the fairer sex.


44 posted on 04/12/2005 10:34:26 AM PDT by IamConservative (To worry is to misuse your imagination.)
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To: mongrel

> Most of the barnyard, sexual, and body part swear words are the ones that come from German origin.

In Victorian times, polite people would never refer to a dress with mud on it as "dirty," but as "soiled." Dirt was derived from the Norse "drit," which meant excrement. As it became an English word, it maintained a strong negative connotation. That connotation is now largely gone, and one can say "dirt" in polite company.

The same will happen with all the expletives used today. That's just the way of things.


45 posted on 04/12/2005 10:34:30 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: crv16

Parents, friends' parents, people on the street and even prime time TV cuss in front of them. Is it any wonder?


46 posted on 04/12/2005 10:34:31 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: crv16

Good Lord almighty, parents, why do you think God gave us mouth-sized bars of soap?

Stand in a bathroom for 30 seconds with a bar of Dial in your mouth, and you won't say bad words where Mom can hear 'em for a LONG time.


47 posted on 04/12/2005 10:34:43 AM PDT by Xenalyte (It's a Zen thing, you know, like how many babies fit in a tire.)
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To: orionblamblam

You haven't answered my question. How does the rampant use of expletives make us better, nobler, or smarter?


48 posted on 04/12/2005 10:35:02 AM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (I'm an "outraged moralist" and I have no good argument. I'm headed to Marie Callender's.)
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To: JenB

> do it all you like, but I'm not going to hang around while you do so.

That's fine. I can't stand the weak-stomached.


49 posted on 04/12/2005 10:35:25 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam

I work with someone who it is embarassing to even have a conversation with sometimes. There are times when he will be having an otherwise serious workplace discussion with someone yet he cannot help but swear constantly. And I'm not just talking about a word here and there; he will literally swear so much that maybe one out of every five words will NOT be a swear word. To be honest, it makes him look like a complete idiot and a joke in front of everyone, even though he is pretty well educated and has a degree.

Now, imagine how dumb kids out of HS who talk like this will look and tell me how it's no big deal.


50 posted on 04/12/2005 10:36:16 AM PDT by frankiep
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