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Military Judge Rejects England's Plea Deal
FoxNews.com ^ | May 4, 2005 | AP

Posted on 05/04/2005 11:33:02 AM PDT by cweese

FORT HOOD, Texas — A military judge on Wednesday rejected Pfc. Lynndie England's guilty plea agreement in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal after another prisoner's testimony cast doubt on the prosecution's case. Earlier in the day, Pvt. Charles Graner Jr., the reputed ringleader in the scandal, contradicted a key part of England's guilty plea, in which she said she knew she was committing wrongful acts when she took part in the mistreatment of Iraqi detainees. Graner said that the notorious photos taken of England at the prison had a legitimate use, endangering England's guilty plea to seven abuse charges. Under military law, a judge can formally accept England's guilty plea only if she knew at the time that what she was doing was illegal. The judge, Col. James Pohl, planned to question England again Wednesday afternoon to try to clarify her state of mind when the abusive acts occurred. Graner, who is said to be England's ex-boyfriend, was found guilty in January and is serving a 10-year prison term for his role in the scandal. Pohl abruptly stopped England's sentencing hearing after Graner testified for the defense that three pictures he took of England holding a naked prisoner on a leash were meant to be used as a legitimate training aid for other guards.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: courtmartial; england; foxnews; leashchick; lynndie; plea; sheshamedamerica
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1 posted on 05/04/2005 11:33:02 AM PDT by cweese
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To: cweese

Give her a medal......forget the court martial.


2 posted on 05/04/2005 11:34:36 AM PDT by Pondman88
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To: cweese
Graner testified for the defense that three pictures he took of England holding a naked prisoner on a leash were meant to be used as a legitimate training aid for other guards.

That's the ticket.

"The pictures were essential for my 'What Not To Do' PowerPoint presentation!"

3 posted on 05/04/2005 11:34:59 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: cweese

Graner said that the notorious photos taken of England at the prison had a legitimate use

can anyone explain this?


4 posted on 05/04/2005 11:35:14 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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To: Pondman88

Well, if this stands I'm sure the MSM will be howling from now 'till Gabriel blows his horn!


5 posted on 05/04/2005 11:35:46 AM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: cweese
Must be love...

6 posted on 05/04/2005 11:37:27 AM PDT by evets (God bless President Bush and VP Cheney)
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To: cweese

Someone said she was facing 11 years in prison. Let her leave the Army and call it a day.


7 posted on 05/04/2005 11:39:55 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: cweese

Good. Maybe there will be justice for this poor creature after all. She was following orders to "humiliate" the prisoners -- not torture them. Since the Geneva Convention does not apply to nonuniformed terrorists, what the hell is her crime?

It's pretty sorry that they are burning a couple of low ranking enlisteds for all of this.


8 posted on 05/04/2005 11:40:46 AM PDT by Elpasser
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Sounds good to me.


9 posted on 05/04/2005 11:40:48 AM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: cweese

Medals, not Jail, for Lynndie!


10 posted on 05/04/2005 11:42:30 AM PDT by bluebeak
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To: cweese

Instead of her getting her negotiated deal, the boyfriend may end up getting her some serious time.


11 posted on 05/04/2005 11:43:50 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: Elpasser

You said it.

I'm still wondering what kind of excuse it is for the top brass to go around basically admitting that discipline in their prisons had totally broken down, and guards were doing whatever the hell they wanted.

"Hey, don't blame me, I'm just the commanding officer!"


12 posted on 05/04/2005 11:45:50 AM PDT by keepingtrack
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To: bluebeak

Medals? You must be kidding. Dishonorable discharge, yes. Prison time, maybe. But medals? What's going on in your head, I wonder.


13 posted on 05/04/2005 11:46:25 AM PDT by Rembrandt_fan
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To: cweese
Graner, who is said to be England's ex-boyfriend, was found guilty in January and is serving a 10-year prison term

Ewwww, that'll get you at least 5 years!

14 posted on 05/04/2005 11:46:33 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it.)
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To: cweese

Do the Lynndie!

http://badgas.co.uk/lynndie/


15 posted on 05/04/2005 11:47:35 AM PDT by el_chupacabra (I'm glad you were born.)
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To: cweese
Seems odd to me that whereas "Lynndie England" has become a household name, I can't seem to recall the names of any of the others involved in this "scandal".
16 posted on 05/04/2005 11:47:50 AM PDT by keats5
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To: bluebeak

Are you guys serious about this? or you are kidding? I think this woman and the others gave our "Military" a black eye. God knows if it costs us soldier's lives.


17 posted on 05/04/2005 11:48:35 AM PDT by ElPatriota (let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: bluebeak

Her dumb,careless actions ultimately aided the insurgency and indirectly led to the deaths of more US soldiers.
For this she should pay.


18 posted on 05/04/2005 11:48:43 AM PDT by nbenyo
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To: bluebeak

"Medals,not jail,for Lynddie"
Yeah,right,lets give creedence to all the Ugly American Imperialist propaganda nonsense coming out of the Islamic world.Real great PR for the War on Terror.


19 posted on 05/04/2005 11:49:08 AM PDT by Riverman94610
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To: keepingtrack
"Hey, don't blame me, I'm just the commanding officer!"

One of the best units I was in the Company Commander would hand the company off to the First Sergeant and Platoon Sergeants and tell his LTs to stay out of the way. We would hardly ever see the officers after morning PT.

The battalion commander asked him once what was going on and the CO said, "I don't know and don't wanna know."

The Lt. Colonel chuckled and said, "Good, Man."
20 posted on 05/04/2005 11:51:35 AM PDT by speed_addiction (I like to watch the children running and squealing. You see, they don't know I am using blanks!)
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To: Rembrandt_fan
Medals? You must be kidding. Dishonorable discharge, yes. Prison time, maybe. But medals? What's going on in your head, I wonder.

Agreed... All the terrorists are slime but we need not stoop to that level. She is an idiot and so is her boyfriend.

21 posted on 05/04/2005 11:52:57 AM PDT by Bigturbowski
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To: Elpasser

"...what the hell is her crime?"

Her crime is giving Ted Kennedy, Dan Rather and other lefties ammunition to disparge all the good men and women in uniform.


22 posted on 05/04/2005 11:53:04 AM PDT by AngieGOP (I never met a woman who became a stripper because she played with Barbie dolls as a kid.)
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To: nbenyo

I see it as the liberal press and demorats constantly badgering the military over this is the reason for the add'l indirect deaths.

Both groups above do not treat this war with the seriousness it deserves and because of that....soldiers and citizens will die.


23 posted on 05/04/2005 11:57:51 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (I post the story, then turn the discussion back over to the adults...)
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To: ElPatriota
I agree they gave the nation and the military a black eye. But I don't think it would have made any difference in the costs of casualties. The people we are fighting could care less they only want to kill Americans and Iraqis. Remember, they had already killed and beheaded a couple of Americans before this got into the MSM. People that would sen their own to their deaths in suicide bombings could give a crap about all this.

I don't think she ought to be getting any medals either. Like someone else said give her a dishonorable discharge and send her home. I also do not believe these yahoos could have done this sort of thing without someone in the chain of command knowing about it.
24 posted on 05/04/2005 12:00:56 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: wallcrawlr

Both groups above do not treat this war with the seriousness it deserves and because of that....soldiers and citizens will die.

VERY good point!


25 posted on 05/04/2005 12:03:27 PM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: cweese

For cryin' out loud, Abu Ghrab was an issue for the demoncRATS. Medals should be given to our soldiers like England & Graner NOT jail.


26 posted on 05/04/2005 12:04:12 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: nbenyo
Her dumb,careless actions ultimately aided the insurgency and indirectly led to the deaths of more US soldiers

How is that?

27 posted on 05/04/2005 12:07:24 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: wideawake
"The pictures were essential for my 'What Not To Do' PowerPoint presentation!"

Garner has ZERO credibility. Lynndie is not a MP or an interrogator: she is a clerk. She was not authorized to even be in that area. They also have pictures of Lynndie nude and having sex. There is nothing complicated about this case. She is a disgrace -not a hero. She's a feminist icon because she's blatantly mocking all men. She should get the max punishment. Only those on the  PC gender (feminist) side want to see her get off.

28 posted on 05/04/2005 12:07:32 PM PDT by Chief_Joe (From where the sun now sits, I will fight on -FOREVER!!!)
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To: cweese
Both groups above do not treat this war with the seriousness it deserves and because of that....soldiers and citizens will die.

The demons and their media-ocre minions used this woman to bludgeon Bush and Rummy. They could have let it go and nobody would'a cared. But they dug and dug until the thing took a life of it's own. She a casualty of the NYT as much as anything else.

29 posted on 05/04/2005 12:08:13 PM PDT by Calusa (itís a mere fig leaf of fairness.)
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To: lilylangtree
Medals should be given to our soldiers like England & Graner

These two aren't "soldiers" - they're insubordinate degenerates.

Don't equate these disgusting perverts with real soldiers.

30 posted on 05/04/2005 12:15:21 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: cweese

Then they wonder why they cannot meet their quota.


31 posted on 05/04/2005 12:15:58 PM PDT by Bossy Gillis
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To: lilylangtree

Yup, getting your girlfriend pregnant while serving overseas is definitely medal-worthy.


32 posted on 05/04/2005 12:16:20 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

D, is this guy covering for himself? She said it was amusement, he had said it was for training.

Has he been sentenced?


33 posted on 05/04/2005 12:17:43 PM PDT by Howlin (North Carolina, where beer kegs are registered and illegal aliens run free.)
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To: wideawake
Neither medals nor jail time. Out of the Army with a dishonorable discharge and call it a wrap.
34 posted on 05/04/2005 12:17:46 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: lowbridge
You have competition. Nigerian email scammers asked to do the Lynndie
35 posted on 05/04/2005 12:18:19 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Americanexpat
Only to say that ever since I saw the pictures, I have gut dislike of this woman, and no less from the others who were involved in this thing. I have such a respect for the Military, that the realization, that this kind of trash are actually part of it, was a bit shocking to me... so I can imagine it was the same for many, many people in this country alone, let alone the rest of the World. Shocking because it was unexpected. Of course, nothing like this can be proven, but I believe this gave the killers a little bit more anger, to avenge, what a "woman" did to their "manhood." In a part of the world where this kind of thing can be highly offensive (offending?). Again I have no proof of that.

One thing I do agree, there is someone up the ladder who should me be held responsible as well, otherwise it looks as it they are just scapegoats.

36 posted on 05/04/2005 12:19:11 PM PDT by ElPatriota (let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: Admin Moderator

Sorry about the duplicate, I did not see it.


37 posted on 05/04/2005 12:20:29 PM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: Rembrandt_fan

I approve of terrorist humliation. But don't think we did nearly enough to torture, punish and extract information from the ba$tard$.

MANY AMERICANS feel that the panties and dog leash were not nearly harsh enough for Sadaam's human woodchipper friends.

MOST Americans are more than mildly amused at the pantyboy pictures. Terrorising terrorists is fair and just.

and dont waste your breath with the 'if we do (whatever)we are just like them... ' crap. War is hell. They are lucky they only got the pantiboy and phone booth type of hazing.

They should have been treated a LOT WORSE.


38 posted on 05/04/2005 12:23:17 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (The Chinese and Saudis are our friends and allies!)
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To: ElPatriota

One thing I do agree, there is someone up the ladder who should me be held responsible as well, otherwise it looks as it they are just scapegoats.

Her comander has been removed and her career ruined. Who else do you want to be ruined?


39 posted on 05/04/2005 12:28:23 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: Pondman88

The diversity of opinions on this issue are amusing to me. Another freeper thought Graner should have been executed. LOL! I'm with you


40 posted on 05/04/2005 12:28:41 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: lilylangtree

I agree.
we should be proud of them.
they found a way to humiliate and extract information from the muzzies that did not involve pliers, gasoline and fingernails.

Loreena bobbit got off easier than these soldiers do.

We have thousands of men raped in prison here in the USA every month... guards looking on and laughing. Freepers snickering about Democrats one day being in a cell with their new boyfriends named bubba and such....

these folks in the prison were terrorists.
I don't think lindie went far enough.
panties on the head is NOTHING. NOTHING.

and its disgusting that americans would be calling for her or any other soldiers head over such trivial bulcarp.


41 posted on 05/04/2005 12:29:44 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (The Chinese and Saudis are our friends and allies!)
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To: plain talk

Another freeper thought Graner should have been executed

LOL is right!


42 posted on 05/04/2005 12:30:10 PM PDT by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: Howlin

Yes. 10 years.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/16/graner.court.martial/


43 posted on 05/04/2005 12:32:05 PM PDT by dmz
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To: cweese

Interesting twist.

The comment "You can't have a one person conspiracy." is telling. During SENTENCING PHASE, ex-boyfriend/father of her child says something in mitigation testimony that causes the judge to think that her guilty plea to conspiracy in the previous TRIAL PHASE was not genuine or that she was ill-advised/informed/served by defense counsel. Tough break, but the MCM is pretty specific about protecting against defendants making false guilty pleas.

She may, indeed, have to go through trial. Maybe ex-boyfriend/father of her child can testify again and get her acquitted. Unlikely.


44 posted on 05/04/2005 12:35:00 PM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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To: Robert_Paulson2
I'm an infantry vet, not a former MP, so I don't know what guardhouse policies are, exactly. I do know that we as infantrymen were given very strict instructions on the treatment of captured PWs. Interrogation was to be handled by personnel trained in such matters, for the most part, although the situation in the field could be such that we could demand information from prisoners based on immediate need to know; e.g., 'Where's your buddies? How many are there?'--that kind of thing. Sexual humiliation or outright torture were forbidden. An order to commit such acts would have been considered an unlawful one.

Lastly, information obtained under extreme duress, particularly when perpetrated by untrained 'amateurs' like Englund, has little or no intel value. She and her pals did it because they could, not because they were experts in extracting information from recalcitrant terrorists.
45 posted on 05/04/2005 12:35:26 PM PDT by Rembrandt_fan
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To: cweese

That is such b/s. She knew what she was doing was illegal. They are trained to know that.


46 posted on 05/04/2005 12:37:00 PM PDT by Jaded (Hell sometimes has flourescent lighting and a trumpet.)
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To: Robert_Paulson2; Elpasser

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm

The report ordered by commander Lt. General Ricardo Sanchez showed many things that were not okay. Screening processes were grossly inadequete and huge amounts of civilians acused of no crime were kept there. Nothing these "soldiers" did was part of their job. The pictures they took sullied the reputation of the US Army and help fuel dissent against the Coalition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse

Taguba's 53-page report, classified "Secret" and dated April 4, 2004, concluded that U.S. soldiers had committed "egregious acts and grave breaches of international law" at Abu Ghraib. [1] (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm) Taguba found that between October and December 2003 there were numerous instances of "sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses" of prisoners. In violation of Army regulations, intelligence officers asked military police to "loosen up" inmates before questioning. The report estimates that 60% of the prisoners at the site were "not a threat to society" and that the screening process was so inadequate that innocent civilians were often detained indefinitely. Guards invented their own rules and supervisors approved of their actions. Personnel lost track of prisoners, did not count their prisoners, and kept no records regarding dozens of escapes. The facility held too many inmates and supplied too few guards. Training of those on guard was insufficient, and superiors neglected to visit the facilities in person. Top military personnel disagreed on whether military police or military intelligence should be in charge. Prisoner treatment varied between shifts and between compounds.


A soldier is seen punching restrained prisonersTaguba cited numerous organizational and leadership failures at Abu Ghraib. Reservists tasked with guarding the prison population were inadequately trained, and Taguba faulted senior commanders for failing to address these deficiencies. Specifically, intelligence officers and members of one company, the 372nd Military Police Company, based in Cresaptown, Maryland, in charge of security, took part in the documented abuses.

Taguba's report cited numerous examples of inmate abuse, including:

Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet.
Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees.
Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing.
Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time.
Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear.
Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped.
Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them.
Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture.

A detainee forced to stand on boxesWriting "I am a Rapest" [sic] on the leg of a detainee alleged to have raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked.
Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture.
A male MP guard raping a female detainee.
Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees and MPs posing with cheerful looks.
Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees.
Threatening detainees with a loaded 9mm pistol.
Pouring cold water on naked detainees.
Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair.
Threatening male detainees with rape.
Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell.
Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.
Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting and severely injuring a detainee.


47 posted on 05/04/2005 12:40:20 PM PDT by kingsurfer
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To: jec41
Again like said, maybe I am mistaken, but I have always had a high opion of the Military... because when someone puts their lives on the line - and die doing it - I respect them and admire them beyond belief.

Something else, I have no problems, with torturing the sob's. In fact if it was up to me, I would 'outsource' their care, somewhere like Pakistan or Turkey [smile], where the really know to look after them,[sarcasm] quietly, effectively or else. In fact, I do hope than when I see Bin laden again, will dead... I would hate the idea of just putting him in prion (just like Saddam now), for what?.. they can't even touch them or get the intelligence we need. Ok, enought of this... we maybe have different points of vew. see ya.

48 posted on 05/04/2005 12:42:24 PM PDT by ElPatriota (let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: el_chupacabra

50 posted on 05/04/2005 12:59:34 PM PDT by gopwinsin04
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