The Christian Complex

The Washington Post ^ | May 5, 2005 | George Will

[gcruse]

Some Christians should practice the magnanimity of the strong rather than cultivate the grievances of the weak. But many Christians are joining today's scramble for the status of victims. There is much lamentation about various "assaults" on "people of faith." Christians are indeed experiencing some petty insults and indignities concerning things such as restrictions on school Christmas observances. But their persecution complex is unbecoming because it is unrealistic.

[Quix]

Well said.

I can recall extremely few, if any, cases, individuals who were hostile to Christianity and Believers

who did NOT have

Horrid parents pretending to be Christians--usually in shrill, hypocritical, abusive ways

or other such charactures of Christians who were somehow harsh and abusive in lastingly impactful ways at close range--such as teachers or bosses. But usually, it was horrid parenting in the 'name' of Christianity.

I think the fiercely insulting personhood assaults I've taken on this thread are most likely traceable to such a background. Otherwise, the person would not feel such a compulsion to feel better that they'd have to insult my sanity, mental/emotional health etc. so they could feel better, higher.

Thanks for your post.

[Quix]

Find a time machine and go back and complain to the Puritans and the host of other Christians who founded this country essentially for CHRISTIAN FREEDOM TO WORSHIP GOD AS THEY SAW FIT.

Just our history. . . . the main reason for our being a country to begin with.

Then, of course, there's been numerous miraculous 'coincidences' furthering our existence over the decades as God affirmed our focus on Him.

Deal with it.

That is changing at the sociological equivalent of the speed of light. Believers will have to deal with it.

So will you. The horrors resulting will not be fun or comfortable.

[conserv13]

The Da Vinci Code is an anti-Christian book, by any logical standard.

Its fiction.

[TitansAFC]

---"The Da Vinci Code is an anti-Christian book, by any logical standard."---

---"Its fiction."---

Indeed. Just more proof, like Time Magazine's annual "Jesus Seminar" articles, of the secular media's ability to empower and popularize even the most absurd anti-Christain theories. The media, the education system, and activist judges are among the most visible persecutors of Christianity, as well as Conservatives in general.

Christian children from the point of entering school will begin a process of learning that will immediately and consistently dismiss their system of beliefs as primitive and irrelevant; it will only become more hostile as they go further into the education system (ultimately, college). They will undergo blatant double-standards (notice California schools can still require the reading of the Koran), and will be daily exposed to newspapers, television, movies, and media openly mocking of their faith and their believing peers. They will also continue to see what we have seen for many years now: the continuing, forceful removal of all elements Christian from society via an activist judiciary.

The persecution Christians experience every day is real, and the result of a clever enemy far less interested in peaceful coexistence than the Christian community. The idea that the "what persecution?" crowd seems to forward is that, Christians being the majority in the country, of course they aren't experiencing any real "persecution."

This argument is absurd. Women are a majority in this country as well; they hold positions of high office, judgeships, etc. - yet who would deny that women have often been the victims of persecution?

The problem with recognizing persecution is that one tends to see it only as it affects one's own people or set of beliefs. Hence the furor over the release of "The Passion of the Christ." Many Christians could not comprehend the objection by the Jewish community, insisting that Jews enjoy incredible influence in this country - through media, law, and disproportionately in politics; hence, Jewish persecution in America is a thing of the past. The Jewish community feared the resurrection of anti-semetic feelings due to potential "Jews killed Jesus" sentiment, and dismissed the idea that a large deal of influence and power can automatically disqualify their ability to be persecuted. They were right, as are Christians now to state the same case.

One needs look no further than a leader (Chuck Schumer, et al) of the Democratic Party actually stating in open Senate sessions that he believes a candidate's Christian/Catholic beliefs are too deeply held to be a Federal Judge. Were it just a wild statement, it would be irrelevant. The problem is that so many others followed suit. If that isn't open persecution of Christians/Catholics, well.......

The most inherent problem is that those individuals most disaffected by Christianity or Christians will never see a "persecution" of Christians. Even when the point comes that they concede wrong done against Christians, it always seems to be qualified with "Well, you think YOU'VE got it bad....." or "you don't have it so bad - Christianity is everywhere." A series of isolated incidents is no longer isolated incidents - it is a pattern of persecution.

George Will is quite wrong here, and he is openly hostile. Actually belittling the idea of Christian persecution as an imagined element born of "victimization" is itself a dismissal of the concerns of a great number of people. To laugh off the concerns of any substantial group of people who feel persecuted would be unacceptable in public discourse in most cases; the fact that Will is able to do so to Christians proudly only reinforces what Christians are up against and have to deal with daily.

Raw numbers do not exorcise a people's ability to be persecuted. Would anyone suggest Jews cannot be persecuted in New York? It would, too, be a ridiculous claim.

Always try putting yourself in the others' shoes: would you feel persecuted, for example, if you believe creationism is fallacy yet attended school in a school district where evolution was banned? Or would you feel merely minorly insulted and be open to being mocked for your concerns of persecution? I would think that when applying such results to oneself, one would feel persecuted.

Stating that Christianity undergoes no persecution in America, as George Will does, suggest to me that the demise of its influence is simply something he welcomes. If that requires a little persecution, so be it, because their raw numbers suggest it'll never be more than minor blips on the radar anyway.

I think his logic is fatally flawed.

[qam1]

Ask Republican Sentators about religious tests for *atheist* federal judges.

Someone already did

Capitol Q&A: Who Would Confirm an Atheist to the Supreme Court?

Robert Bennett (R.-Utah) - Yes
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah) - Yes

Sen. Ben Nelson (D.-Neb.) - Probably

Sen. Jon Kyl (R.-Ariz.) - Maybe (Doesn't think he will ever have to because he doesn't believe Atheist can be Conservatives)

Sen. James Inhofe (R.-Okla.) - No
Sen. John McCain (R.-Ariz.) - No
Sen. Don Nickles (R.-Okla.): -No
Sen. Zell Miller (D.-Ga.)- No

Sen. Max Cleland (D.-Ga.) - No answer
Sen. Tim Johnson (D.-S.D.) - No Answer
Sen. Paul Sarbanes (D.-Md.) - No Answer

Now let any Senator come out and say they won't vote for a Christian and all hell would break loose, So whose being persecuted?

[TitansAFC]

---"Now let any Senator come out and say they won't vote for a Christian and all hell would break loose, So whose being persecuted?"---

Actually, Chuck Schumer did, from your own state. He did it to Judge Pryor:

". . And in [Attorney] General Pryor’s case his [Catholic] beliefs are so well known, so deeply held, that it is very hard to believe, very hard to believe, that they are not going to deeply influence the way he comes about saying, “I will follow the law,” and that would be true of anybody who had very, very deeply held [Catholic] views ."

He won't vote for any Christian or Catholic whose beliefs are well known and deeply held - he has said so MANY times. I ask you, did all hell break loose?

[Quix]

EXTREMELY WELL PUT imho.

THX.

[Quix]

Some might say

it's persecution to allow someone to be deceived into a lie about God's existence.

---

From an atheist's perspective, it's going to get much worse.

First, it will seem somewhat wonderful, briefly. Super rationalism, nihlism, etc. will appear to have won the day and the world. Then the dark lord behind the world government will demand worship as God.

Then, within say 3.5 years, God will encapsulate all evil away from contaminating His Perfection, His children, His endless Creation.

Atheism and Islam are going the way of the Dodo. Though probably with much more noise and drama.

[qam1]

". . And in [Attorney] General Pryor’s case his [Catholic] beliefs are so well known, so deeply held, that it is very hard to believe, very hard to believe, that they are not going to deeply influence the way he comes about saying, “I will follow the law,” and that would be true of anybody who had very, very deeply held [Catholic] views ."

Ummm, Do have the quote without you adding "Catholics" in the brackets?

He won't vote for any Christian or Catholic whose beliefs are well known and deeply held - he has said so MANY times. I ask you, did all hell break loose?

He may not vote for Republican Christians but he has voted for Democrat Christians.

Some of the Republican Senators wouldn't even vote for an Atheist if George Bush nominated him.

[qam1]

Then the dark lord behind the world government will demand worship as God.

uuummm. OK  

Then, within say 3.5 years, God will encapsulate all evil away from contaminating His Perfection, His children, His endless Creation.

Now where have I heard that before???

But this time it's really going to happen, right?

But I'm not worried

Judges 1:19

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

If the Lord had trouble with "Chariots of iron" he's going to have a big problem with our Apache Helicopters.

Atheism and Islam are going the way of the Dodo. Though probably with much more noise and drama.

From 1991 to 2001, The Number of the non-religious doubled in number while at the same time the number calling themselves Christians declined by 10% this decline in Christianity is especially seen in young people so this trend will only continue.

So I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[Quix]

Many things are deceiving.

I expect, personally, a world wide Revival with great drama and God playing a staring role.

Then the Biblically predicted great falling away.

Then things get even more interesting.

Eventually, even those without eyes to see will have to face . . . themselves . . . and end time events.

So . . . I suppose one could say . . . doubt away.

[JockoManning]

Off topic:

 

Quix, this link is to a bunch of info on the crusades, including a movie review. I heard about it from the CBN weekly roundup email I received.

 

Not sure where would be best to place it so will just put it here in your most recent post. If you know of somewhere appropriate for it, please post accordingly.

 

http://www.cbn.com/special/kingdomofheaven/

 

with this snippet:

 

'The trigger for the First Crusade was Emperor Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. The response was much larger, and less helpful, than Alexius I desired, as the Pope called for a large invasion force to not merely defend the Byzantine Empire but also retake Jerusalem.'

 

Thanks ... JM

[TitansAFC]

---"Ummm, Do have the quote without you adding "Catholics" in the brackets?"---

You're kidding, right? It's a copy/paste from a news article. Surely you must know what they're doing when they do this. You must have read a newspaper before.

He himself said that quote, and many of the like. Look it up. He is openly stating that he will not vote for a Christian/Catholic whose beliefs are well known and deeply held. Saying that he has voted for Christian Democrats before is like a bigot saying, "I have friends who are black." Of course he'll vote for them if they promise not to take their religion to heart - and has said so. That's the whole reason it IS persecution. You're only allowed to have you're religion to the degree that I find it acceptable; otherwise, no jobs or promotions for you.

That's open, blatant persecution for being a practicing Christian/Catholic with deeply held beliefs.

[Quix]

Thanks for link and post

[JockoManning]

You're welcome Quix.

Just home.
JM

[conserv13]

I'm sorry, I don't agree with you. I am not a Christian, but I respect your faith.

[TitansAFC]

---"I'm sorry, I don't agree with you. I am not a Christian, but I respect your faith."---

Well, my friend, that respect already puts you light years ahead of most Dems in this country!

I agree to disagree, too. ;-)

Peace out,
TitansAFC