U.S., China Clash Again Over Tech (Unbelievable Chinese Demands)

Internet News ^ | May 13, 2005 | Tim Gray

[Golden Eagle]

WASHINGTON -- Beijing's proposed government procurement policies are threatening U.S. software sales in China, and Congress wants something done about it.

Just exactly what, however, remains to be seen.

Although China joined the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, it is not a member of the WTO Agreement on Government Procurement. In order to gain access to the worldwide government sales market, Beijing passed a government procurement law and began drafting regulations.

Its first set of regulations involved software sales to the Chinese government. According to U.S. officials, Beijing stacked the deck against American software companies.

"We are concerned that the overly restrictive definition of domestic software contained in the draft regulations has the potential to sharply restrict the sales of U.S. software to the Chinese government," Benjamin Wu, assistant secretary for technology policy at the Department of Commerce, told a House committee today.

The proposed rules require American companies seeking to do business with the Chinese government to manufacture all their products in China and register the copyrights in Beijing. In addition, at least 50 percent of the product development must be done in China.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

We need to get this showdown with china over with and restore the American industrial machine. We may get it cheap now but what counts is will we be able to get it when we need it. If we make a stand with Taiwan and China goes for it do you think we can get combat boots and clothes and other military products they produce for us?

That really is not an issue for several reasons:

1. A conflict with China over Taiwan will be Naval in nature...Seventh Fleet is still the biggest and toughest kid on the block, and ain't going anywhere soon.
2. The real possibility is a war in Korea. Well, guess what. If they make that mistake again, the Chinese would probably support South Korea. ~they do lots of good business with the South Koreans, and want that to continue~ At any rate, most of the troops in that would NOT be American. We only have three divisions that we could put there soon enough to mean anything, 2^nd Mechanised, 25^th Light, and 3^rd Marines. Most of the foreign boots on the ground would probably be Japanese. No, that's going to primarily be a Naval (Balistic Missile subs), and Air war.
3. The Military, and the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex hasn't completely lost their collective mind. There exist laws Presently on the books and enforced requiring a large percentage of any military product (75% is the persent requirement i believe) to be American made. i believe it's called The Domestic Content Act. Fer Cryin' out loud, we were in a DEPRESSION when WWII jumped on Europe, yet we managed to ramp up production of war material for the British and Soviets in no time at all. Lots of those "Rust Belt" plants have never been torn down. They still sit there, and i'd bet you that if we had good reason to do so, they could start crankin up in a week.
4. The Chinese lost OVER 1,000,000 MEN IN THE FIRST KOREAN WAR TO US FIREPOWER. They're probably not too anxious for a rematch.
5. TO GET BACK TO THE TOPIC~We have some pretty talented software writers here in this country. They can compete with anyone, including somebody from China trying to hack into our systems. When it comes right down to it, Aside from Pizza, Spaggetti, Fireworks, and failed birth control methods, what have the Chinese ever really invented, especially in respect to computer software or hardware?

That last point needs some elaboration. We spend a lot of time sniping back and forth on these threads between Microsoft-Linux-Apple, but there is an underlying theme there.

Our people are the best on the planet: The Free Software guys, Eric Raymond, Richard Stahlman, et al. Imagine THOSE guys getting a free hand to disrupt Chinese IT...Then multiply it by all those Linux-FreeBSD-OpenBSD hackers. The Chinese wouldn't have a usable computer network in a week. Let's talk about business: They don't have a Steven Jobs, and never will. Their system doesn't encourage such things. THEY COME HERE TO DO IT, AND THEY STAY HERE TO LIVE IT. Chinese Cultural Ruthlessness you tell me? Hey, compared to Bill Gates, these guys have no idea what the hell the word means. And Gates isn't unique, there's a whole lot more where he comes from. A century ago, some of Gates' tactics were simply "business as usual", meaning that the American People understand fully, even if there's parts of it that they don't particularly like. Their culture could NOT produce a Bill Gates, he'd have been executed.....

Bottom line, they're gonna loose big time. This is merely bluster, and they ought to hit their Athiestic knees and thank the God they don't believe in that we ignore their immature bluster. Cause when the times comes that our nation chooses NOT to ignore it...THEN they will learn what true suffering entails. < /RANT>

[Age of Reason]

China owns our debt.

They have us by the short hairs.

[bbenton]

William I can see your logic even if I don't like it. You are right about the second commie revolution over there. It would be like when Khan raided the Muslim world and killed all their free thinkers, spawning radical nonthinking Islam. China would take a few giant steps back. You really have to hand it to the far left's philosophy of "if it doesn't work let's try more of the same"

Calvin. I see your point and agree with most of it. The 7th fleets presence is like lead balloons at the prom for any Asian aggression. I would hope that the theory of Kim being China's stooge is wrong and that China would act to stop full conventional or nuclear war in Korea.
Would China or South Korea team up with Japan to stop/fight N. Korea? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Japan's past still rubbing folks the wrong way over there?
In regards to 75% of our military gear made in America , we need to up that. How many critical pieces of equipment are made in China or any semi-hostile nation?
If we were to get into a new large scale conventional war and needed to draft people to fight I don't think we could just reactivate our WWII factories. A lot of current military gear can't be massed produced like the low tech WWII stuff. I have no doubt we would win but it would seem to take a little too long to ramp up our production to the people dieing in combat without the necessities.

I personally think American industrial power is an issue in this day and age. We can't have other countries producing for us. We can't be in a position of breaking out the WD-40 and trying to reopen old factories in desperation when some country tells us to take a hike. We definitely shouldn't be simultaneously undermining our production capabilities and pumping up a potential adversary. Without the US to import their crap they would never be in a position to challenge us. I like that idea better.
Why were we so tough on Russia during the cold war? Was it because they wanted to destroy our way of life / rule the world? Was it because they were building a military that could accomplish that? Were they oppressing their people and their neighbors? Isn't China doing the same? Should we be helping them?

[antiRepublicrat]

Aside from Pizza, Spaggetti, Fireworks, and failed birth control methods, what have the Chinese ever really invented, especially in respect to computer software or hardware?

They invented paper and printing too. The Muslims brought it to Europe and improved it for cheap, commercial use.

But we basically agree, this is a non-issue.

[Paul Ross]

...all your backdoor are belong to us...

Too damn true. I doubt Bill Gates is laughing.

Then the Chinese have been mulling these proposals along: I.E., what's Mine is Mine, and What's Yours is Negotiable....

Current Location: Homepage >  Counselor's Report >  Western Asia and Africa Report >  Text

Striving for more say in technical standards

Sunday,May 15,2005 Posted: 15:51 BJT(0751 GMT)

After paying "patent rent" for many years, Chinese high-tech companies are faced with more and more intellectual property rights disputes and trade barriers. It has become an urgent task for China to strive for more say in making technical standards.
"The formation of technical standard has shifted from 'market decides standards' in the past to today's 'standards lead markets'," said Zhang Qin, deputy director of the State Intellectual Property Office.

He said that it is of great significance to boost China's own industries by making use of technical standards.

In the high-tech field, technical standards have become important weapons for multi-national companies to protect themselves. At present, China mainly relies on foreign companies in core technologies. Lack of patent and technical standards has seriously affected the competitiveness of Chinese companies in the area.

Statistics show that about 99.8 percent of 16,000 international standards are made by foreign institutions. Only two per thousand of those standards involve the participation of China in the standard-making process.

There was a series of conflicts in the past two years focusing on patent and intellectual property of technical standards, only a start of the standard disputes which are predicted to be more heated in the future five to ten years, according to experts.

"Chinese companies must develop high technology and we must make our own technical standards if we hope to change from 'made in China' to 'made by China'", said Liu Qingtao with the research and development department of Lenovo Group.

In fact, many Chinese companies have mobilized to form homegrown standards in the high-tech area. Thirty Chinese companies, research institutions and universities, headed by Lenovo, have proposed a technical standard on how to share information among televisions, computers and mobile phones.

The standard agreement has been delivered to the Ministry of Information and will be ratified in the near future, said Liu.

Meanwhile, as homegrown standards in the third generation mobile communication technology (3G), TD-SCDMA has also won a place for Chinese companies in the international mobile communication market.

"Economic globalization has pushed the technical standard to the frontier of competition in international market and China's economic and social progress has highlighted the importance of being strategic," said Yu Xinli with China National Institute of Standardization.

China initiated research on a development strategy of technical standards in 2002. According to the strategy, which has not been finished, the essential task of China's technical standard development is to enhance the competitive ability of high-tech standards before 2020.

Apart from the government, civil research institutes also actively participate in the studies. A report released by China Labs on Wednesday said in the first period of standard strategy, China must cultivate its own multi-national companies to play a leading role in standard making.

Besides, China should learn how to take advantage of its huge market in forming its own technical standards, the report said.

(Source: English Site of Egypt)

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[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

i hope to make this my last comments on this particular digression, but i'd just say that you can save yourself some typing and call me CDL, cause that seems to be the consensus where i usually hang out.

Calvin. I see your point and agree with most of it. The 7th fleets presence is like lead balloons at the prom for any Asian aggression. I would hope that the theory of Kim being China's stooge is wrong and that China would act to stop full conventional or nuclear war in Korea.

If there is one matter that is clear, that would be that Kim Jong Ill is not anybody's stooge. i'd suspect that Bejing is JUST AS NERVOUS as anybody else. The ingredients for disaster are there.

• Start with one certified Wackjob with divine delusions
• Add nuclear weapons
• Sprinkel in paranoid delusions and a long memory for percieved insults
• Braise with missiles that can reach anywhere in America, or reach to Bejing.
• Stir in a starving populace who would want nothing more than to overthrow the nutjob and get some real food (instead of boiled grass and tree bark).
• RESULT: a very volitile mixture.

No, this isn't anyone's sock puppet, too unstable, even if he is intelligent.

Would China or South Korea team up with Japan to stop/fight N. Korea? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Japan's past still rubbing folks the wrong way over there?

Sure enough, Japan and Korea's relationship is a problem. They still carry some baggage from big mistake II. Still, Japan is pretty p!$$ed about N. Korea sending missiles over Japan. If things go nuclear, guess where the prevailing winds dump the fallout...that's right, the home islands. Here's a clue though, when the bullets start flying, those differences from a 60 year old war aren't going to matter near as much. Japan has an excellent Air Force, and an excellent Navy. They're only 500 miles away, and can move lots of troops in a hurry. The US can't move that fast. It would be weeks, and possibly months before we could move heavy formations into Korea. Having that fist in S. Korea's pocket can turn a lot of negatives into insignificance.

If we were to get into a new large scale conventional war and needed to draft people to fight I don't think we could just reactivate our WWII factories. A lot of current military gear can't be massed produced like the low tech WWII stuff. I have no doubt we would win but it would seem to take a little too long to ramp up our production to the people dieing in combat without the necessities.

We have a lot of misconceptions about modern war. Ground combat hasn't changed much up to the company level since WWII. It's still fire and manuever. What the Infantryman needs are things that are low tech, and very basic (such as extra armour on the HMMWV's). The reason he doesn't get it easily today is because it isn't "sexy" like smart bombs and new Carriers.

David Hackworth (RIP Colonel) reported some little known facts about Desert Storm...while we saw lots of footage of smart bombs going right down smoke stacks, or Cruise Missiles turning right on a main street in Bagdad to hit a government building, 97% of what hit the Iraqis were plain old Iron dumb bombs, and large caliber bullets. Lots and Lots of hot, high velocity steel, same as it ever was. Believe it or not, most of the Tank Kills in Desert Storm were as a result of the work of Air Force A-10 Warthogs.

We still need and use lots of bullets, lots of bombs, lots of mortars, hand grenades, and huge amounts of armoured and specialty steel. That's heavy industry stuff. Maybe those old factories can't do it as effeciently as today's mini-mills, but they can make up in volume for what they lack in efficiency. i suspect that many of the factories that sit idle here in the Northeast, never torn down, property never sold, is because they once produced (and are still capable of producing) Department of Defense Essential Materials. Add Ball Berings, and other vehicle parts, and you have a huge Heavy Industrial mobilisation. There's no real defense against our productivity of Essential War materials. Heck, you'd have to SATURATION NUKE the region i live in because of terrain features, and that is a huge waste of nukes, and it's not likely to happen. These plants are old, they're not dependent on high technology computerisation that is subject to hacking and disruption. i really don't think it's a matter of desparation, actually, it's a matter of economy of scale. That's a good reason to bring those old plants back on line. There are very few things (i certainly can't think of any) that we are dependent on foreign sources for, at least in respect to anything the military would need.

You're right of course about the Chinese needing us far more than we need them. The fact is that there is only one America. Love or Hate it, our country consumes more products than much of the rest of the world combined. We're where EVERYBODY comes to sell their products. That's all that China can offer. We have enough in resources, and that includes oil to deal with any emergency. The Chinese cannot power their tanks with Cheap Laptop Computers (running either Red Flag Linux, or Microsoft Windows). Even in respect to Oil, it is our consumption that sets benchmark prices. We could easily drill our own oil, all that is lacking is national will, and government will to cut back on needless, stupid regualtions. Yes, it would be difficult, but there existed rationing in WWII. My elderly Mother still holds on to some WWII ration tickets...probably worth a fortune now.

[GOP_1900AD]

The essential problem is that the US high tech management, most of them delusional, utopian Baby Boomers who have read and agree with "The Lexus and the Olive Tree," absolutely refuse to accept the fact that they are making deals with Communists who hate the West.

[atrocitor]

When are we going to have an administration/congress that is going to kick the s**t out of China and its multinational syncophants (including many US multinational entities) until they actually start trading fairly. I can't think of any one in my lifetime that has done a goddamn thing. Retaliatory tariffs, quotas, and any other economic sanction you can think of until they play by the same rules we do. How about a one day moratorium of buying any of their crap for a day.