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Meet the Poor Republicans
NY Times ^ | May 15, 2005 | DAVID BROOKS

Posted on 05/14/2005 3:33:42 PM PDT by neverdem

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Notice how popular Hillary is in upstate New York. I think Brooks might be referring to this KidSave.
1 posted on 05/14/2005 3:33:44 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

"You've got poor Republicans (over 10 percent of voters) who are hawkish on foreign policy and socially conservative, but like government programs and oppose tax cuts." Sounds like BS to me. Why would poor republicans oppose tax cuts. Even if the cuts include the most wealthy, why does this writer think poor republicans oppose?


2 posted on 05/14/2005 3:38:31 PM PDT by TBall
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To: neverdem
the big difference between poor Republicans and poor Democrats is that the former believe that individuals can make it on their own with hard work and good character.

And the latter believe that big government should and will take care of them.

3 posted on 05/14/2005 3:39:11 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: neverdem
The left oozes with arrogance. This article drips with it.

From Al Gore onward, all they have to offer is condescension. Certainly they have no ideas to offer on any topic.

4 posted on 05/14/2005 3:40:58 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: neverdem
"According to the Pew study, 76 percent of poor Republicans believe most people can get ahead with hard work. Only 14 percent of poor Democrats believe that."
5 posted on 05/14/2005 3:43:21 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead (To hell with Mexico, its policies, and its leaders)
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To: neverdem
Poorer Republicans support government programs that offer security, so long as they don't undermine the work ethic. Eighty percent believe government should do more to help the needy, even if it means going deeper into debt. Only 19 percent of affluent Republicans believe that.

I can see helping those in NEED now that there are fewer churches to do the job, but I STRONGLY object to giving ANYTHING to those who are in WANT!! (That would be about 95% of the democrat base, BTW).

If all social programs ended tomorrow, I wouldn't care. I'd have a party. I would , though, bring those I find in NEED to a church group. They'll receive help, i.e., food, shelter and clothing - the basics.

6 posted on 05/14/2005 3:46:56 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

I wondered why I claimed to be a Republican!


7 posted on 05/14/2005 3:47:00 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: neverdem

Well, I think the New York Times, the Liberal Elite, and the authors of this paper on Class and Voting habits are wayyyyyyy tooooooo class conscious.

Leave it to the snotty liberals to delineate everyone by CLASS.

And you thought pseudo-Royalty was dead...


8 posted on 05/14/2005 3:47:29 PM PDT by OpusatFR (I live in a swamp and reuse, recycle, refurbish, grow my own, ride a bike and vote gop)
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To: neverdem
About Pew:

[snip]

Mr. Sager told his readers he had discovered "an immense scam perpetrated on the American people by a cadre of left-wing foundations and disguised as a 'mass movement.'" Foundations like Ford, Open Society, Carnegie, Joyce, and MacArthur, he noted, had spent some $123-million from 1994 to 2004 to secure passage of the campaign law.

More than $40-million of that money, Mr. Sager said, had come from the Pew Charitable Trusts, where the program officer in charge had been Sean Treglia. Mr. Sager quoted from a videotape of a lecture Mr. Treglia had given at the University of Southern California in which he explained just how Pew had built support for passage of the campaign law.

Mr. Treglia said the foundation had made grants to "create an impression that a mass movement was afoot -- that everywhere they [members of Congress] looked, in academic institutions, in the business community, in religious groups, in ethnic groups, everywhere, people were talking about reform."

To maintain the illusion of a spontaneous upwelling of support for changes in campaign financing, Mr. Treglia said he "always encouraged the grantees never to mention Pew." [snip]

9 posted on 05/14/2005 3:47:47 PM PDT by JesseJane ((Close the borders))
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To: TBall

My husband and I are conservative and we basically live paycheck to paycheck because I have stayed home to raise our children, and now I am helping my children by babysitting for them---and getting to spend time with my grandkiddies.

I love any tax cut that comes my way---and I have never, ever begrudged any wealthy person for their tax cuts...I think it is unfair to have the wealthy pay a tax rate close to 50% of their salary...

What needs to be done is reduce the social programs that suck the life force out of the hard-working people of any pay grade!


10 posted on 05/14/2005 3:49:08 PM PDT by Txsleuth ( Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
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To: neverdem
If you're looking for creative tension, for instability, for a new political movement, the lower middle class is probably where it's going to emerge.

Here's the NYT on their never-ending quest to stir up a Marxist revolution.

11 posted on 05/14/2005 3:49:22 PM PDT by Zero Sum (Marxism is the opiate of the masses.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
the left oozes with arrogance

The Pew Center is well named, imho. :-)

They clearly look down on the "common people" and study them like lab rats so they can figure out how to manipulate them.

The Pew Center sponsors a lot of forums and their moderator is one of those arrogant types who tries to lead the participants to the "middle ground" that invariably represents the Pew Center's grandiose vision of world socialism.
12 posted on 05/14/2005 3:49:45 PM PDT by cgbg (When do I wake up from this socialist nightmare?)
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To: neverdem
If you're looking for creative tension, for instability, for a new political movement, the lower middle class is probably where it's going to emerge.

If that doesn't sound like communist propaganda, I don't know what is. Almost reads right out of their playbook.

13 posted on 05/14/2005 3:49:54 PM PDT by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: vpintheak

To that I say, come ON BROOKS! Aren't you one of the good guys?


14 posted on 05/14/2005 3:50:40 PM PDT by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: JesseJane; neverdem
Sorry, the link to the source didn't post.

Source:

Leftist Foundations Under Fire

15 posted on 05/14/2005 3:51:03 PM PDT by JesseJane ((Close the borders))
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To: ClearCase_guy
The left oozes with arrogance. This article drips with it.

What makes you say that? He's just describing the report linked in the first paragraph.

16 posted on 05/14/2005 3:52:59 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: TBall

Agree, with your dissent- though I do believe that there is an enormous populist constituency in America that merely wants a level playing field.

Recently,Congress passed legislation that gave Drug Companies tax amnesty for money that they have been hiding overseas (e.g. manfacturing pills for pennies in Ireland, and selling them for dollars here). The tune of the tax amnesty was in the neighborhood of $81B- or a 5% tax rate.

Let them make as much money as they can-but close loopholds that help them avoid the same tax burden as the averaqe Joe.


17 posted on 05/14/2005 3:56:06 PM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: TBall
"You've got poor Republicans (over 10 percent of voters) who are hawkish on foreign policy and socially conservative, but like government programs and oppose tax cuts." Sounds like BS to me.

Yeah. I think this article is another NYSlimes Hillary propaganda piece. It's designed to bring moderates to her table once she moves far enough to the right. "See? Even sensible Republicans have all agreed they support Hillary's moderate outlook on policy. Just look at our article dated 5/14/05. It's all right there."

18 posted on 05/14/2005 3:57:19 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: Mears

bfl


19 posted on 05/14/2005 3:59:23 PM PDT by Mears (Keep the government out of my face!)
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To: Txsleuth

The tax cut business is a major weakness in this otherwise reasonably well written piece.
`


20 posted on 05/14/2005 4:00:49 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: neverdem

THe study says the number of Liberals has DOUBLED since 1999. I think Bush has polarized and cemented the hard Left into a concrete mass of irrationality:



LIBERALS


PAST TYPOLOGY COUNTERPART: Liberal Democrats/Seculars/60's Democrats

17% OF GENERAL POPULATION

19% OF REGISTERED VOTERS

PARTY ID: 59% Democrat; 40% Independent/No Preference, 1% Republican (92% Dem/Lean Dem)

BASIC DESCRIPTION: This group has nearly doubled in proportion since 1999. Liberal Democrats now comprise the largest share of Democrats. They are the most opposed to an assertive foreign policy, the most secular, and take the most liberal views on social issues such as homosexuality, abortion, and censorship. They differ from other Democratic groups in that they are strongly pro-environment and pro-immigration.

DEFINING VALUES: Strongest preference for diplomacy over use of military force. Pro-choice, supportive of gay marriage and strongly favor environmental protection. Low participation in religious activities. Most sympathetic of any group to immigrants as well as labor unions, and most opposed to the anti-terrorism Patriot Act.

Key Beliefs: General Population Liberals
Relying too much on military force to defeat terrorism creates hatred that leads to more terrorism 51% 90%
I worry the government is getting too involved in the issue of morality 51% 88%
Stricter environmental laws and regulations are worth the cost 60% 89%
Poor people have hard lives because government benefits don't go far enough to help them live decently 52% 80%


WHO THEY ARE: Most (62%) identify themselves as liberal. Predominantly white (83%), most highly educated group (49% have a college degree or more), and youngest group after Bystanders. Least religious group in typology: 43% report they seldom or never attend religious services; nearly a quarter (22%) are seculars. More than one-third never married (36%). Largest group residing in urban areas (42%) and in the western half the country (34%). Wealthiest Democratic group (41% earn at least $75,000).

LIFESTYLE NOTES: Largest group to have been born (or whose parents were born) outside of the U.S. or Canada (20%). Least likely to have a gun in the home (23%) or attend bible study or prayer group meetings (13%).

2004 ELECTION: Bush 2%, Kerry 81%

MEDIA USE: Liberals are second only to Enterprisers in following news about government and public affairs most of the time (60%). Liberals' use of the internet to get news is the highest among all groups (37%).


21 posted on 05/14/2005 4:02:00 PM PDT by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: sirthomasthemore

I would prefer it if corporations paid as little income tax as possible because the lower the corporate income tax rate the greater the number of corporations that will come here to do business, which in turn means a more dynamic economy that will grow and create more jobs.


22 posted on 05/14/2005 4:08:21 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: neverdem

DAVID BROOKS,

Say how are those subscription numbers going? Have they got you out on the street corner yelling, "Paper! Get your paper here!"?


23 posted on 05/14/2005 4:10:27 PM PDT by Mark (Lib Kinsley-LA Times-"I'm sick of talking about values..When I want values I go to Wal-Mart"))
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To: Txsleuth
My husband and I are conservative and we basically live paycheck to paycheck because I have stayed home to raise our children, and now I am helping my children by babysitting for them---and getting to spend time with my grandkiddies.

You're richer than most. As Zig often says, nobody looks up from their deathbed and says, "I wish I had spent more time at the office."
24 posted on 05/14/2005 4:12:27 PM PDT by Jaysun (No matter how hot she is, some man, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t)
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To: TBall
Why would poor republicans oppose tax cuts. Even if the cuts include the most wealthy, why does this writer think poor republicans oppose?

Self-interest. These poorer Republicans get no direct and personal benefit from a tax cut, and quite frankly they're skeptical that tax cuts given to those wealthier, truly benefit them.

25 posted on 05/14/2005 4:13:06 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Mark

Ouch! LOL!


26 posted on 05/14/2005 4:13:47 PM PDT by JesseJane ((Close the borders))
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To: neverdem

Because it wasn't what he wanted to hear.


27 posted on 05/14/2005 4:15:18 PM PDT by Melas
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To: vbmoneyspender
They're not coming here, my friend, to create jobs. They set up fronts here, and then establish their operations where they can get the cheapest labor.

Remember, it's business that right now is the biggest impediment to getting illegals out of the country- got to make that almighty buck, even if it isn't within the law and even if it means that illegals over-populate your neighborhood.

That said, make the tax rate as low as you want. Just cut the loopholes, and make them pay that tax. Fair enough?
28 posted on 05/14/2005 4:15:51 PM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: concerned about politics

Why does it matter if soemeone in need gets help from the govt or from a private source? If you were truly concerned about the need being met, that is. That aside, I think the article shows how easy the DNC could regain power if it would stop allowing the radical left(feminist, homosexuals) to be the face of it's party.


29 posted on 05/14/2005 4:17:25 PM PDT by amosmoses (For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Romans 10:2)
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To: TBall
"You've got poor Republicans (over 10 percent of voters) who are hawkish on foreign policy and socially conservative, but like government programs and oppose tax cuts." Sounds like BS to me. Why would poor republicans oppose tax cuts. Even if the cuts include the most wealthy, why does this writer think poor republicans oppose?

Because the amount of the tax cut is insignificant in their budget but cutbacks in government services are seen. What is a tax cut against trash collection being reduced to once a week ?

30 posted on 05/14/2005 4:17:54 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: neverdem

**The G.O.P. succeeds because it is seen as the party of optimistic individualism. **

Bump tha!


31 posted on 05/14/2005 4:17:58 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: neverdem

**the big difference between poor Republicans and poor Democrats is that the former believe that individuals can make it on their own with hard work and good character.**

LOL! The Republicans work while the dims lounge and wait for welfare. No suprise there!


32 posted on 05/14/2005 4:20:02 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Mark

Isn't he their token conservative? One couldn't tell.


33 posted on 05/14/2005 4:20:28 PM PDT by Crawdad (I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no class.)
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To: OpusatFR

Class is reality.

Social conservatives are mostly blue collar former New Deal Democrats. They were never laissez faire libertarian types. They don't believe businesses are run by Dagny Taggarts and Hank Reardens. They believe businesses are run by Kenneth Lays and Robert Vescos.


34 posted on 05/14/2005 4:20:44 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: vbmoneyspender
I would prefer it if corporations paid as little income tax as possible because the lower the corporate income tax rate the greater the number of corporations that will come here to do business, which in turn means a more dynamic economy that will grow and create more jobs.

Which is a good argument. However, there are oodles of poorer Republicans that fit the articles descriptiont that quite simply are skeptical. They're not the least bit convinced said companies will really come here to do business. They're not at all convinced that said companies won't continue to employ Chinese laborers at 1/10 the price, pocket that sweet tax break, leaving the working class Republicans watching as the CEO's and major stockholders hide money in offshore accounts.

35 posted on 05/14/2005 4:21:49 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Sam the Sham

Well said.


36 posted on 05/14/2005 4:22:38 PM PDT by Melas
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To: concerned about politics

Well, I'm a poor Republican.

I have 4 kids. I work 40 hours a week @ 10 buck an hour. My kids all have health care through the state, otherwise they'd have none. I have healthcare through my work. My wife has none. We don't have a bunch of extravagant extras, like stereo systems or computers. (I post from work or the library.) We are on food stamps, and they help out a LOT. We do not eat out, and we don't got to movies or blow extra money on crap like junk food.

Even though I hate what it costs everyone, I don't want social programs removed, but I DO want better controls on them...like NO ILLEGAL ALIENS getting welfare, food stamps, or state-sponsored health care. That'd save a lot of money.
Also...you don't work, you can't get anything.

I hate living like this. I am trying to find a better-paying job, but I was a dummy back 20 years ago and didn't finish college.

That's my story.


37 posted on 05/14/2005 4:24:03 PM PDT by hoagy62 (Revolution is now the ONLY option.)
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To: Txsleuth
My husband & I agreed 25 years ago that I would stay home with our children. Sure, we don't have the newest gadgets and cars and have struggled at times. But we have kids that appreciate the fact that Mom was always there. That was our choice and now I'm waiting for grandskids. Got time yet, my kids are 20 & 18.

I don't undestand how anyone agrees with taxing the rich to give to the poor. For pete's sake, they worked for and it's their money!

38 posted on 05/14/2005 4:24:24 PM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (We will always remember.We will always be proud.We will always be prepared, so we may always be free)
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To: amosmoses
Why does it matter if soemeone in need gets help from the govt or from a private source?

You can sum up the answer to your question with one word: Trust. There are countless people on both sides of the fence who quite simply don't trust private sources to be there.

39 posted on 05/14/2005 4:25:54 PM PDT by Melas
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To: neverdem

And of course as always, the article fails to acknowledge that the Rats obsession with gun control has played a major role in pushing lower income voters to the Republican party . I think Klinton's gun control initiatives were the worst thing that ever happened to the Democratic party .They just don't get it .


40 posted on 05/14/2005 4:26:37 PM PDT by FRONTLINER (Crush the Left !)
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To: hoagy62

It sounds to me as though you're doing everything within your power to stay afloat, and my hat is off to you. I don't begrudge you a dime you get. I hope that soon you won't need assistance, but until then, I'm glad it's there for you and your family.


41 posted on 05/14/2005 4:27:46 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Sam the Sham

I wouldn't mind my trash being picked-up only once a week--in fact we could go back to doing it like we did when I was a kid---we had a trash barrel and burned it!!! LOL

I see your point, but I think if people could see a list with the CRAP that our taxes are going for, I think a lot of us would pick quite a few "luxuries" that we could do without---I dare say, if we cut just the "pet projects and pork" like having every single govt. building in West Virginia being named for Robert Byrd, the programs that most people consider necessary like Social Security wouldn't be the problem that they are now...


42 posted on 05/14/2005 4:28:06 PM PDT by Txsleuth ( Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
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To: neverdem
According to the Pew study, 76 percent of poor Republicans believe most people can get ahead with hard work. Only 14 percent of poor Democrats believe that.

There you have it: it's all about values.

43 posted on 05/14/2005 4:31:12 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: ClearCase_guy

David Brooks is not a leftist. He's the new token conservative on the NY Times op ed page.


44 posted on 05/14/2005 4:32:58 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: alice_in_bubbaland
I don't undestand how anyone agrees with taxing the rich to give to the poor. For pete's sake, they worked for and it's their money!

It's called resentment, plain and simple. A great example is a buddy of mine, who's wife needs some major dental work. They have insurance, but what insurance doesn't cover is still a fortune to them, so they're spacing her dental work out with some done this year, and a 6 month wait and some done next year. Now, pay attention, this is where the resentment grows and festers. They see that people on either side of them don't have this difficulty. The upper class can easily afford such things. The lower class gets it free. They on the other hand work hard, and suffer for it. In ways, they'd be better off poor and they know it.

45 posted on 05/14/2005 4:33:11 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Melas

Thanks.

And you are absolutely right. A point I never, ever tire of making is that the social conservative is the child and grandchild of New Deal Democrats and the grandchild of William Jennings Bryan Populists. He flatly does not trust the morals of big business and wants a government that will stick up for him instead of looting this country to the benefit of multinationals.

We live in a society in which zip code indicates your income. The blue collar Republican does not live in the same town as the rich pro-business Republican. He knows the rich pro-business Republican can just wall himself away from the problems he faces every day. He knows the rich pro-business Republican will never send his own son to war, can move his money offshore, and reeks of free traitor callous indifference to people like him.


46 posted on 05/14/2005 4:33:43 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: sirthomasthemore
When you say they're not coming here, are you making any distinction in that regard? Every day there are new corporations that are created here in the United States that grow and create jobs for people. That seems to me to be a good thing that we should try to encourage as much as possible with a low tax policy.

As far as loopholes are concerned, could you give me an idea of what loopholes you are talking about. I see a big distinction between a 'loophole' that allows a company to keep money it has earned via a reduced tax rate versus a subsidy that is given to the corporation by the gov't from others earnings. I am in favor of the former as I would be in favor of any tax cut, while I am against the later which I actually see relatively little of going on

47 posted on 05/14/2005 4:35:27 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: hoagy62

I truly hope your situation improves. This country has the social programs as you've outlined to help those in need, but they should not be a long term way of life. Everyone needs a hand once in a while and I don't begrudge anyone that. I totally agree that there has to be tighter controls on these programs, illegals SHOULD NOT be allowed to have access to these programs, however I fear that they know how to play the system better than any of us!


48 posted on 05/14/2005 4:36:38 PM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (We will always remember.We will always be proud.We will always be prepared, so we may always be free)
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To: Sam the Sham
We live in a society in which zip code indicates your income. The blue collar Republican does not live in the same town as the rich pro-business Republican. He knows the rich pro-business Republican can just wall himself away from the problems he faces every day. He knows the rich pro-business Republican will never send his own son to war, can move his money offshore, and reeks of free traitor callous indifference to people like him.

Exactly. And now with an ever increasingly frequency, we're even witnessing this corporation renigging on things like pensions. I don't think even a lot of freepers understand the shock that goes through the working class communities when something like that happens.

49 posted on 05/14/2005 4:38:25 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Melas; alice_in_bubbaland

Thanks. I am doing the best I can, and someday I won't need any help from the state. Of that, I am sure. And once that happens, if I can help it....NEVER AGAIN.


50 posted on 05/14/2005 4:40:26 PM PDT by hoagy62 (Revolution is now the ONLY option.)
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