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Creationism: God's gift to the ignorant (Religion bashing alert)
Times Online UK ^ | May 21, 2005 | Richard Dawkins

Posted on 05/25/2005 3:41:22 AM PDT by billorites

Science feeds on mystery. As my colleague Matt Ridley has put it: “Most scientists are bored by what they have already discovered. It is ignorance that drives them on.” Science mines ignorance. Mystery — that which we don’t yet know; that which we don’t yet understand — is the mother lode that scientists seek out. Mystics exult in mystery and want it to stay mysterious. Scientists exult in mystery for a very different reason: it gives them something to do.

Admissions of ignorance and mystification are vital to good science. It is therefore galling, to say the least, when enemies of science turn those constructive admissions around and abuse them for political advantage. Worse, it threatens the enterprise of science itself. This is exactly the effect that creationism or “intelligent design theory” (ID) is having, especially because its propagandists are slick, superficially plausible and, above all, well financed. ID, by the way, is not a new form of creationism. It simply is creationism disguised, for political reasons, under a new name.

It isn’t even safe for a scientist to express temporary doubt as a rhetorical device before going on to dispel it.

“To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” You will find this sentence of Charles Darwin quoted again and again by creationists. They never quote what follows. Darwin immediately went on to confound his initial incredulity. Others have built on his foundation, and the eye is today a showpiece of the gradual, cumulative evolution of an almost perfect illusion of design. The relevant chapter of my Climbing Mount Improbable is called “The fortyfold Path to Enlightenment” in honour of the fact that, far from being difficult to evolve, the eye has evolved at least 40 times independently around the animal kingdom.

The distinguished Harvard geneticist Richard Lewontin is widely quoted as saying that organisms “appear to have been carefully and artfully designed”. Again, this was a rhetorical preliminary to explaining how the powerful illusion of design actually comes about by natural selection. The isolated quotation strips out the implied emphasis on “appear to”, leaving exactly what a simple-mindedly pious audience — in Kansas, for instance — wants to hear.

The deceitful misquoting of scientists to suit an anti-scientific agenda ranks among the many unchristian habits of fundamentalist authors. But such Telling Lies for God (the book title of the splendidly pugnacious Australian geologist Ian Plimer) is not the most serious problem. There is a more important point to be made, and it goes right to the philosophical heart of creationism.

The standard methodology of creationists is to find some phenomenon in nature which Darwinism cannot readily explain. Darwin said: “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Creationists mine ignorance and uncertainty in order to abuse his challenge. “Bet you can’t tell me how the elbow joint of the lesser spotted weasel frog evolved by slow gradual degrees?” If the scientist fails to give an immediate and comprehensive answer, a default conclusion is drawn: “Right, then, the alternative theory; ‘intelligent design’ wins by default.”

Notice the biased logic: if theory A fails in some particular, theory B must be right! Notice, too, how the creationist ploy undermines the scientist’s rejoicing in uncertainty. Today’s scientist in America dare not say: “Hm, interesting point. I wonder how the weasel frog’s ancestors did evolve their elbow joint. I’ll have to go to the university library and take a look.” No, the moment a scientist said something like that the default conclusion would become a headline in a creationist pamphlet: “Weasel frog could only have been designed by God.”

I once introduced a chapter on the so-called Cambrian Explosion with the words: “It is as though the fossils were planted there without any evolutionary history.” Again, this was a rhetorical overture, intended to whet the reader’s appetite for the explanation. Inevitably, my remark was gleefully quoted out of context. Creationists adore “gaps” in the fossil record.

Many evolutionary transitions are elegantly documented by more or less continuous series of changing intermediate fossils. Some are not, and these are the famous “gaps”. Michael Shermer has wittily pointed out that if a new fossil discovery neatly bisects a “gap”, the creationist will declare that there are now two gaps! Note yet again the use of a default. If there are no fossils to document a postulated evolutionary transition, the assumption is that there was no evolutionary transition: God must have intervened.

The creationists’ fondness for “gaps” in the fossil record is a metaphor for their love of gaps in knowledge generally. Gaps, by default, are filled by God. You don’t know how the nerve impulse works? Good! You don’t understand how memories are laid down in the brain? Excellent! Is photosynthesis a bafflingly complex process? Wonderful! Please don’t go to work on the problem, just give up, and appeal to God. Dear scientist, don’t work on your mysteries. Bring us your mysteries for we can use them. Don’t squander precious ignorance by researching it away. Ignorance is God’s gift to Kansas.

Richard Dawkins, FRS, is the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science, at Oxford University. His latest book is The Ancestor’s Tale


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: biblethumpers; cary; creation; crevolist; dawkins; evolution; excellentessay; funnyresponses; hahahahahahaha; liberalgarbage; phenryjerkalert; smegheads
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1 posted on 05/25/2005 3:41:23 AM PDT by billorites
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To: billorites

Actually, I tend to believe in evolution, and that it is all part of God's plan.

Funny how so many who take evolution as an article of faith constantly try to alter our behavior to prevent global warming or whatever the useful environemtal meme of the day is. If evolution works as advertised, will a 2 degree change in the earth's temperature really cause mass extinctions? Wouldn't the most adaptable species prosper, while those that are less adaptable will either migrate, die out, or evolve? If evolution is such a basic scientific principle, who are we to attempt to halt it?

They constantly preach the awesome power of nature, all the while trying to convince us to freeze nature in stasis like a fly in amber.


2 posted on 05/25/2005 4:01:14 AM PDT by A Balrog of Morgoth (With fire, sword, and stinging whip I drive the Rats in terror before me.)
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To: billorites

One of the most fascinating bits of science lately is that Palies now believe that all modern men (and women) are descended from one woman who came out of Africa-imagine that. It reinforces the biblical version of creation. I have never believed evolution contradicted the biblical version-things evolve...so?


3 posted on 05/25/2005 4:03:49 AM PDT by nyconse
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To: billorites
" ... The isolated quotation [organisms “appear to have been carefully and artfully designed”] strips out the implied emphasis on “appear to”, leaving exactly what a simple-mindedly pious audience — in Kansas, for instance — wants to hear."


What a pomous English a$$. This bloke has as much of an idea of what people in Kansas think as the U.S. Senate.

4 posted on 05/25/2005 4:06:15 AM PDT by G.Mason ( It's people like you, that make people like me, people like you!)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

Science deals with the physical world and the 5 senses. Anything past that world (creationism, Intelligent Design, Global warming, etc.) are not science, but metaphysics.
Science depends on an objective study of verifiable phenomena. Any speculation as to the cause or the moral correctness of said phenomena are beliefs and belong only to philosophical discussions of a metaphysical nature.Religion begins where science ends.


5 posted on 05/25/2005 4:17:33 AM PDT by photodawg
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To: billorites
The Bottom line is really quite simple....

(1)Do you believe in a creator God and the words & teachings He's given us in His book?

(2)Or do you choose not to believe.

You're side may be correct. Our side my be right. BUT If our side is correct, I sure wouldn't want to be in your place at the last roundup!

6 posted on 05/25/2005 4:28:47 AM PDT by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: billorites

Dawkins isn't religion bashing. He's creationist bashing. There is a big difference.


7 posted on 05/25/2005 4:32:39 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: PatrickHenry

Ping.


8 posted on 05/25/2005 4:35:48 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: billorites

I'm afraid I don't see any 'religion bashing' here; Dawkins is simply criticizing creationist canards.


9 posted on 05/25/2005 4:36:38 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
A pro-evolution science list with over 280 names.
See the list's description at my freeper homepage.
Then FReepmail to be added or dropped.

10 posted on 05/25/2005 4:37:48 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: Junior
Dawkins isn't religion bashing. He's creationist bashing. There is a big difference.

Dawkins is an atheist who despises all religion.

He particularly hates creationists and reserves most of his venom for them, but it's not just creationists he hates.

11 posted on 05/25/2005 4:38:54 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: patriot_wes

the bible was written by man and while god is perfect man is not...


12 posted on 05/25/2005 4:40:51 AM PDT by thejokker
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To: nyconse
Boy are you taking that out of context. Sure, the descendents of a single woman 200,000 comprise the entire geneology of the human race. However, this does not imply that she existed by herself. The phenomenon has been documented time and again. The residents of Pitcairn Island, for instance, descended from the Bounty mutineers, have had the number of surnames dwindle over the past two centuries. If trends continue, they will eventually be reduced to a single surname.
13 posted on 05/25/2005 4:41:02 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: patriot_wes
You're side may be correct. Our side my be right. BUT If our side is correct, I sure wouldn't want to be in your place at the last roundup!

Amen brother!

Well said and another reason for non-believers to reconsider - what will they really lose if they live as if God does exist? On the other hand . . .

God Bless

14 posted on 05/25/2005 4:42:11 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: billorites
Watch all the so-called conservatives who will applaud this raging leftist assh*le as he bashes Kansans.

Any other Eurotrash writer who showed such overweening, obnoxious contempt for Middle Americans would be derided - Robert Fisk wouldn't get a pass.

But Dawkins will get one from many FReepers.

15 posted on 05/25/2005 4:42:57 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: patriot_wes
(1)Do you believe in a creator God and the words & teachings He's given us in His book?

Herein you are making an assumption that the Bible is God's Word. You assume that because the Book claims to be the Word of God, and people you respect claim it is the Word of God. You have no empirical evidence that this is actually the case.

16 posted on 05/25/2005 4:42:59 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: wideawake

So? His supposed hatred for religion does not come across in this article. So claiming this is "religion bashing" is a bald-faced lie -- of the kind that Dawkins decries in the article.


17 posted on 05/25/2005 4:44:42 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: Junior
If trends continue, they will eventually be reduced to a single surname.

Preposterous analogy. Surnames are not a proxy for genetics and Pitcairn is hardly a proxy for general population.

A person receives only his father's surname, while he receives both his mother and father's heritage.

And Pitcairn's population and genetic diversity is dwindling because the more resourceful young Islanders leave the Island never to return.

18 posted on 05/25/2005 4:45:52 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: wideawake

They most certainly are, as they are inherited too. Whole lines die out, leaving only a few to continue on.


19 posted on 05/25/2005 4:46:56 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: Junior
What a splendid essay! Too bad the thread has such a provocative title. That may mislead some overly-sensitive mod. But I hope the content of the article will triumph over the title.

Dawkins is entirely correct when he complains about the practice of creationists when they pounce on out-of-context quotes and trumpet them as if it somehow proving their (otherwise vacuous) case. I posted this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating this one extra time:

Henry M. Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research, recently made this candid admission [bracketed comments are mine]:

A great need -- but very expensive -- is that of more high-quality scientific research. We have been able to accomplish much significant research with our limited staff and our graduate students, but much more is needed, especially in the various problem areas [hee hee] of geology, archaeology, anthropology, and astronomy. In the secular world, this type of research is very largely funded by government grants. We, of course, do not have access to government funding [I wonder why], and would not accept it if we did [yeah, right], so this is a serious inhibiting factor. In the meantime, even though we do not yet have answers to all the problems in scientific creationism, the answers we do have are better than those the evolutionists and "progressive creationists" have. We can at least do literature research, using the experimental data acquired by evolutionary scientists and reinterpreting such data in terms of Creation and the Flood. The modern creation revival has, in fact, largely been developed by this process.
Source: ICR AND THE FUTURE.

20 posted on 05/25/2005 4:51:40 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: thejokker
the bible was written by man and while god is perfect man is not...

So the Bible is not perfect? Therefore there is no such thing as sin? Therefore God is not perfect because man wrote about and described Him?

Christ died for nothing?

21 posted on 05/25/2005 4:52:07 AM PDT by N. Theknow (BXVI - The cafeteria is closed.)
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To: PatrickHenry
We can at least do literature researchquote mining, using the experimental data acquired by evolutionary scientists and reinterpreting such data in terms of Creation and the Flood.

I fixed a mistake in his writing. I hope he doesn't mind.

22 posted on 05/25/2005 4:59:34 AM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
Evolution definitely exists and is ongoing. Spotted owls learn to live next to Quickie Mart. Endangered fish move to other habitats. Democrats and RINOs each year display evidence of spinal atrophy and enlargement of the mouth and a**hole.

None of this objective evidence is denial of God, IMHO.

23 posted on 05/25/2005 5:07:46 AM PDT by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Junior
Herein you are making an assumption that the Bible is God's Word. You assume that because the Book claims to be the Word of God, and people you respect claim it is the Word of God. You have no empirical evidence that this is actually the case....There is the rub. To approach God you need more than intellect. Empiricism is woefully inadequate to discern holiness, the divine, or the will of God. Simplest way I know is go to him in prayer. Too proud to try that? The only other alternative is wait till your dead and hope that you can repent in the hereafter.
24 posted on 05/25/2005 5:11:19 AM PDT by carumba
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To: billorites

Science mines ignorance out of boredom.
Creationists mine ignorance as a tool to challenge scientific dogma.
Dawkins makes a fine preacher.


25 posted on 05/25/2005 5:14:20 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: snarks_when_bored; Junior

I don't see "bashing" (whatever that means) either. I do however, think the Kansas remark was unnecessarily derisive and subtracted from the author's otherwise solid message.


26 posted on 05/25/2005 5:18:27 AM PDT by LiberationIT
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To: PatrickHenry
The creationists’ fondness for “gaps” in the fossil record is a metaphor for their love of gaps in knowledge generally. Gaps, by default, are filled by God. You don’t know how the nerve impulse works? Good! You don’t understand how memories are laid down in the brain? Excellent! Is photosynthesis a bafflingly complex process? Wonderful! Please don’t go to work on the problem, just give up, and appeal to God. Dear scientist, don’t work on your mysteries. Bring us your mysteries for we can use them. Don’t squander precious ignorance by researching it away. Ignorance is God’s gift to Kansas.

Exactly the problem with creation/ID. It's the science of punting on first down. "I can't understand it. I won't understand it. You can't make me! Goddidit. I won't learn any more about cause and effect!"

27 posted on 05/25/2005 5:32:50 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

quite contrary, we are the ones talking about the FIRST cause,


28 posted on 05/25/2005 5:47:22 AM PDT by flevit
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To: flevit
A hypothetical first cause, invoking it well past the first effect to the detriment of the actual causes of all subsequent effects, and screeching at science for daring to fill in the beloved gaps.

I have to say again that Dawkins nailed it, and it's utterly damning. It's why I tend to call ID the UNscience. It's about undoing--sabotaging-- someone else's hard work at discovery. It's an active tearing down of knowledge, a sweeping under the rug of evidence. "Luddite" isn't too strong a word at all.

29 posted on 05/25/2005 5:59:25 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: carumba
"The only other alternative is wait till your dead and hope that you can repent in the hereafter"

poor junior....there is no repenting in the hereafter. (Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment) ... Shalom

30 posted on 05/25/2005 6:00:52 AM PDT by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: patriot_wes

You're side may be correct. Our side my be right. BUT If our side is correct, I sure wouldn't want to be in your place at the last roundup!

The important thing to remember is both sides base their opinion on faith. Christians base their opinion on the life altering change Christ made in their life. Something they know as fact, yet cannot prove to anyone. Evolutionists base their faith on a theory developed by scientists. The people who once thought the world was flat.

31 posted on 05/25/2005 6:01:26 AM PDT by armymarinedad (Character makes you draw a line in the dirt.)
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To: VadeRetro

One definition of faith is a "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." One could say, allow me some latitude here, science is "belief that rests on logical proof and material evidence." (I suspect that belief word will start a conversation, but I’m going for contrast.)

Creationists are people of faith trying to win the argument on scientific grounds. It doesn't work because it's still faith masquerading as science; and so the debate goes on.

Not being a person of faith, I find I can’t hold a meaningful discussion with the faithful. It’s like trying to win an argument over which recipe is tastiest or which painting is the best. I’m sure they feel the much the same about me.


32 posted on 05/25/2005 6:02:40 AM PDT by LiberationIT
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To: Junior
Whole lines die out, leaving only a few to continue on.

I know a guy who has three sisters, no brothers and five daughters.

His father's name will die with him.

Yet his father has 18 grandchildren.

I wouldn't say his father's genes have died out by any stretch of the imagination.

33 posted on 05/25/2005 6:02:55 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: VadeRetro
I agree with what you are saying, but there might be a better way to look at it.

Simply saying 'Goddidit' is pretty lazy; but you can say 'Goddidit' and then ask, "how did God do it?"

For matters such as the origin of the universe (unknowable - we can keep pushing our understanding of how it changed from an initial state back to fractions of nanoseconds, but *never* be able to describe time=0). A "reason" or "purpose" could never be divined by science either. There is room for God and for faith (alas, a description of our observations does not require God).

Not being sensitive to these things is counter-productive. I would say that the majority of scientific contributions have been made by the faithful (for obvious raw number reasons), who probably see their work, in some way, as learning little bits about how God "goes about His work". Or appreciating His art.

34 posted on 05/25/2005 6:04:23 AM PDT by Atheist_Canadian_Conservative
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

according to Hank Hanegraaff:

Under the banner of "theistic evolution," a growing number of Christians maintain that God used evolution as His method for creation. This, in my estimation, is the worst of all possibilities.

It is one thing to believe in evolution, it is quite another to blame God for it. Not only is theistic evolution a contradiction in terms -- like the phrase flaming snowflakes -- but as we have seen, it is also the cruelest, most inefficient system for creation imaginable….

The most significant consequence, however, is that [evolution] undermines the very foundation of Christianity. If indeed evolution is reflective for the laws of science, then Genesis must be reflective of the flaws of Scripture. And if the foundation of Christianity is flawed, the superstructure is destined to fall.






Does God have to make millions of mistakes along the way to have fellowship with you and me?


35 posted on 05/25/2005 6:06:51 AM PDT by Sybeck1 (chance is the “magic wand to make not only rabbits but entire universes appear out of nothing.”)
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To: nyconse

Eve?

"I am black, but comely . . ."
-- Song of Solomon 1:5

"Behold, thou art fair, my love . . ."
-- Song of Solomon 1:15

And, is the Song of Solomon an allegory of Adam and Eve? Enquiring minds want to know . . . ;)


36 posted on 05/25/2005 6:07:44 AM PDT by walden
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To: billorites

We were all created. Many devolve.


37 posted on 05/25/2005 6:08:07 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Atheist_Canadian_Conservative
The argument, alas, isn't over the prime mover of the Big Bang. I don't have a candidate for that, so God is fine. But, again, that's not it.

None of the evidence being swept under the rug, misrepresented, lied about, etc. is about that. God has to do everything, all the time. If the evidence doesn't show that, then it's the fault of immoral, Godless science.

ID is the science that says, "If it isn't a miracle, then THAT's a miracle!"

38 posted on 05/25/2005 6:10:23 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: wallcrawlr


39 posted on 05/25/2005 6:11:36 AM PDT by Sybeck1 (chance is the “magic wand to make not only rabbits but entire universes appear out of nothing.”)
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To: Atheist_Canadian_Conservative; Sybeck1
Note for instance in post 35 we have someone telling God how God is allowed to make the world. For another example, I heard the infamous Kent Hovind on the radio telling the host, "I wouldn't worship a God who used evolution."
40 posted on 05/25/2005 6:12:35 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; bondserv; GrandEagle; ...
ping


Creation ping list
See my profile for info

41 posted on 05/25/2005 6:14:55 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: armymarinedad
Evolutionists base their faith on a theory developed by scientists. The people who once thought the world was flat.

I don't think your example has it's intended effect. For your example to prove your point, scientists would still have to believe that the world is flat and refuse to believe any new evidence that the world is indeed round.

Science history is full of instances where scientists once thought one thing, only to have it proven wrong. But at that point, they (eventually, in some cases) accept the new facts and move on.

42 posted on 05/25/2005 6:17:26 AM PDT by TomB ("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
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To: wideawake; Junior
Family names are (in Western cultures at least) carried by the male line. The studies showing "mitochondrial Eve" use genes that show only the female line. You can't prove you're related to your own father with mtDNA. That's Junior's point.
43 posted on 05/25/2005 6:17:29 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
someone telling God how God is allowed to make the world.

I think you just arent taking Gods word for what it says. Gen 1:1, In the beginning God created...

God says he created. I'll take it thats exactly what happened. Its not putting God in a "box" its accepting what he tells us.

44 posted on 05/25/2005 6:18:01 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: VadeRetro

call it what you want, impressive way to rationalize away importance of a first cause.





45 posted on 05/25/2005 6:21:19 AM PDT by flevit
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To: TomB
Science history is full of instances where scientists once thought one thing, only to have it proven wrong. But at that point, they (eventually, in some cases) accept the new facts and move on.

By doing this, not only accepting new evidence but actively seeking it all the time, science relentlessly converges on an increasingly accurate description of nature. It may never be perfectly right, but it gets very, very accurate. The people who argue that it's just some big pendulum that swings back and forth between flat-Earth and round-Earth are ignoring what is going on as a matter of their own convenience in argument. Creationism is full of intentional little errors of observation and logic like this one. Or, you could say it's full of bull.

46 posted on 05/25/2005 6:23:29 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: thejokker
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
47 posted on 05/25/2005 6:24:48 AM PDT by Manic_Episode (OUT OF ORDER)
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To: VadeRetro

but I doubt you are so cavalier when YOU are the (seemingly) first cause of something. I bet you enjoy being complemented on your hard work.


48 posted on 05/25/2005 6:25:11 AM PDT by flevit
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To: VadeRetro
You can't prove you're related to your own father with mtDNA. That's Junior's point.

Another way of putting it, your mtDNA line can die out but your nuclear genes can be spreading around the world at the same time.

49 posted on 05/25/2005 6:25:34 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Sender

Evolution definitely exists and is ongoing. Spotted owls learn to live next to Quickie Mart...

I don't think spotted owls learning to live next to the Quickie Mart is any evidence of evolution.
Should their off-spring begin to show signs of acquiring the attributes of say, a winged shopping cart, then you may have something there...


50 posted on 05/25/2005 6:30:10 AM PDT by Paisan
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