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No reasoning with the elderly on issue of Social Security
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 5/24/05 | Ruben Navarrette

Posted on 05/25/2005 8:42:08 AM PDT by qam1

The debate over whether to reform Social Security is full of idiosyncrasies.

Here's a big one: No matter what fix we're talking about - partial privatization, raising the retirement age, means testing so millionaires forfeit benefits, tying benefits to inflation rather than wages, etc. - the most ferocious opposition comes from the demographic that won't be affected either way by any proposal being discussed at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue: Americans already 55 and over.

If you can imagine that, you're already two steps ahead of the Bush administration. White House officials seem baffled that their biggest fight has turned out to be with a group with whom the administration went out of the way to avoid picking a fight. The polls on this issue back that up. Most show the same trend: The older the polling sample, the less support you find for tinkering with Social Security. The younger the sample, the greater the support.

The more the administration tries to reassure seniors that they'll squeak by before any rule change takes effect, and so this debate doesn't concern them, the more concerned seniors get. Here's what the White House missed: This isn't just about self-interest. It's also about sentimentality. No other generation is as passionate - and therefore as protective - about Social Security as the World War II generation, those Americans now in their 70s and 80s. For that demographic, this debate is about preserving a program that served their generation well and which they hope will be around several decades from now to serve their grandchildren.

That's interesting. If they really wanted to protect their grandchildren, they'd do everything they could to ensure some generational fair play. Unless something is done, the current system will - 10 or 20 years from now - soak taxpayers with tax rates that experts say could easily top 50 percent when you combine income taxes with the payroll taxes necessary to fund Social Security and Medicare.

But there's no reasoning with the elderly on this issue. I know. I tried.

Recently, I agreed to sit on a panel here in Coronado and discuss Social Security reform. Home to a lot of retired naval officers, the well-to-do community has a reputation for being conservative. But you wouldn't know it from the way the audience - made up almost exclusively of senior citizens - seized every opportunity to tear into President Bush and his proposal to allow young people to invest part of the money they contribute to the current system into private accounts.

The way these seniors see it, this isn't about demographics and the undeniable fact that, with every year that goes by, we have fewer workers supporting more retirees. This isn't about the fact that Americans are living longer, and so it only makes sense to push back the retirement age.

For this crowd, the whole issue of reforming Social Security comes down to trusting George Bush. For those who don't, it's tempting to buy the argument that the administration is manufacturing a crisis to gin up public support for a scheme that will make a fortune for ''Bush's friends on Wall Street.''

Judging from their questions and comments, that's what many in the Coronado audience believed. And they couldn't get past it. They insisted on making the issue political, when it's really generational.

That disappointed me. So did the fact that these seniors had convinced themselves that there was no ''crisis'' in Social Security because the best estimates are that benefits will continue to be paid out for the foreseeable future. They didn't seem to care a whit about the financial strain that future taxpayers will be put under to make that happen. This is the real crisis.

You know what else was disappointing? That many of the seniors were so openly contemptuous of the idea of letting poor and working people invest their own money in private retirement accounts. To listen to these seniors, the less well-off aren't smart enough to know what to invest where, and so need the government to provide them with a guaranteed benefit.

Putting aside the rank condescension, such comments were horribly naive. Given the demographic changes ahead - beginning with the retirement of 70 million baby boomers - don't expect the Social Security system to give out any guarantees or to honor them if it does.

That's something that older generations need to understand - and which younger generations figured out a long time ago.


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: aslongasigetmine; elderly; genx; gimmie; greediestgeneration; greedygeezers; navarrette; rubennavarrette; screwthekids; socialsecurity
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To: chris1
"No kidding. Seniors have taken out so much more than they ever put in. "

Hey everyone will. This is how it works. In 1949 an accounting major in NYC got $2,500 per year. 50 years later, it's some $50,000 per year. That'a a 20X multiplier. When today's graduates retire 50 years from now, the starting salary using the same multiplier will be $1,000,000. They too will be paid more than they ever put in.

61 posted on 05/25/2005 10:02:03 AM PDT by ex-snook (Exporting jobs and the money to buy America is lose-lose.)
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To: inquest

NIRA and NRA created monopolies, high taxes and wage controls that greatly prolonged the depression.


62 posted on 05/25/2005 10:02:30 AM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: GOP_1900AD
In reality, when the Great Depression started, even Hoover did not have the stones to let all the bad debt work itself out and to resist the temptation of heavy government involvement in the crisis.

Indeed, FDR even lampooned Hoover for his interventionist tactics during the presidential campaign. Candidate Roosevelt 1932 was a very different man from President Roosevelt 1933.

63 posted on 05/25/2005 10:03:06 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: Goodgirlinred

"Now you want to wait until we are senile and take everything away from us and leave us to die."

What are we trying to take away from you? What promise do you have that you will receive any welfare checks from the SSA? Check my tagline.


64 posted on 05/25/2005 10:03:22 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: qam1

The Greediest Generation


65 posted on 05/25/2005 10:03:31 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: CSM

I have tried to explain that to Mama, because I support it and I, BTW, am 55, so it won't affect me. However, it will affect my children who are 36, 33, and 31. But Mama does not trust the stock market. She knew people who had lost everything in the stock market crash, even though that was before she was born, and she just thinks it would be a disaster.


66 posted on 05/25/2005 10:04:24 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: Dubya
I respect your right to have an opinion and post it. Have a nice day.>>>>

And we respect your right to substitute an ignorant dithryamb in place of an informed opinion.

Have an even nicer day.
67 posted on 05/25/2005 10:04:32 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: fooman
I don't doubt it. There's no reason for a depression to last 10 years in a free market system. That sort of thing just does not happen naturally.
68 posted on 05/25/2005 10:05:02 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: ex-snook

inflation in not the primary driver. IT has to do with the early contributors only contributing a few years.

It is still true since reagan/oneill DOUBLEd the tax to 12.4% are '83


Should we double the tax to 25% to keep the ponzi scheme going ? THat is what Lindsey/Clinton would have us do.


69 posted on 05/25/2005 10:05:09 AM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: Goodgirlinred

She doesn't deserve a say in this argument. If she is reacting with emotions and not willing to educate herself regarding investments, then she needs to sit back and let me make my own decision. She can wring her hands all she wants, as long as I'm allowed to make choices with my own earnings.


70 posted on 05/25/2005 10:06:43 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: qam1
That's something that older generations need to understand - and which younger generations figured out a long time ago.

I'm the older generation. I'm retired. I really don't care what you do with Social Security. I will tell you this...You have not figured out anything! Government does not keep promises. They are not out to fix Social Security. They want a bigger bite of your money.

The Patriot Act is not about security...It is about more government control. The Real ID Act is not about ID...It is about more government control. The War on Drugs is not about drugs...It is about more government control.

All of us, young and old alike, have given up our liberty by believing government propaganda and media BS from both Right and Left. Bill O'Reilly and Ward Churchill are both the same kind of liars.

No country can remain free while fighting continuous wars on this and that. We have been fighting these wars all of my life and they will continue until freedom no longer exists...and that is not far down the road.
...
71 posted on 05/25/2005 10:07:14 AM PDT by mugs99
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To: Goodgirlinred

She should try Jeremy Seigel's latest book. Buy dividend stocks.

Even the S&P is only down 14% from the drunk high of 2000 when dividends are factored in.


72 posted on 05/25/2005 10:07:30 AM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: fooman

Let's double it every generation until we all give 100% of our earnings to the gov't. and thank our lucky stars for anything we get back!


73 posted on 05/25/2005 10:08:07 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: inquest
Well, my mother saved and pinched every penny. She put their money in CD's. She still saves. Now, after she and Daddy started out with nothing, her assets amount to more than a million dollars. So, she is pretty sharp. I am proud of her.

My Mama has been a good Republican all of her life. However, I am sorry to say that she is not happy with President Bush right now. Mama is more of a Reagan Republican. She is not happy that our country is so far in debt.
74 posted on 05/25/2005 10:08:52 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: chronic_loser

and yes, if anyone wondered, i know how to spell "dithyramb"


75 posted on 05/25/2005 10:09:14 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: CSM

lol.


I dont mean to be cynical. We need to move to a fully funded system like Galveston or Chile that uses Marketable gov debt (treasuries,TIPS ) or stocks.


Note that fixed income investments carry inflation risk as our CD buying friends are finding out.....


76 posted on 05/25/2005 10:10:12 AM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: fooman
LOL! Mama does not want anything to do with stocks. I have stocks, safe ones, my IRA's are invested in them because that is what my late husband did with them. She thinks I should have CD's, but I have left them in stocks, I have just changed the portfolio a little since it was all put in my name. I am more conservative than my late husband was.
77 posted on 05/25/2005 10:13:09 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: chronic_loser
I've never even heard the term. Is it Greek or something?
78 posted on 05/25/2005 10:13:36 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: CSM
She understands that. She said that she has stopped listening to that part of the news. She has not got a horse in that race as it were. However, she does worry about her grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
79 posted on 05/25/2005 10:15:42 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: qam1

FWIW, I'm a boomer (leading edge) and have not trusted Social Security since the early 70's. My retirement plans don't rely on Social Security, or pension plans. Part of the reason I'm in that position is my lack of trust in the government to keep its promises drove me to make other arrangements.

And, yes, I strongly support Social Security reform, including private accounts, but advise any one with a long planning horizon to get to a point where you have excess income allowing you to self fund you own retirement.

Just my 2 cents.


80 posted on 05/25/2005 10:16:40 AM PDT by LiberationIT (No, I'm not a member of the AARP.)
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