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Girls into wives
Chicago Tribune, via Kansas City Star ^ | December 12, 2004 | Paul Salopek

Posted on 05/29/2005 4:33:03 PM PDT by Graybeard58

Edited on 05/29/2005 5:45:46 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

THE CENTRAL HIGHLANDS OF ETHIOPIA — Tihun Nebiyu the goat herder doesn't want to marry. She is adamant about this. But in her village nobody heeds the opinions of headstrong little girls.

That's why she's kneeling in the filigreed shade of her favorite thorn tree, dropping beetles down her dress. Magic beetles.


(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: africa; ethiopia
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1 posted on 05/29/2005 4:33:03 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58

When I read stuff like this its almost enough to turn me back into the hardcore feminazi I once was. Why are females so hated (or is it feared?) in Africa and the Middle East?


2 posted on 05/29/2005 4:39:37 PM PDT by proudofthesouth (Boycotting movies since 1988)
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To: proudofthesouth
When I read stuff like this its almost enough to turn me back into the hardcore feminazi I once was.

I've never heard any feminist speak out aginst any of this.

3 posted on 05/29/2005 4:45:03 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with really stupid enemies.)
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To: Graybeard58

That continent is beyond hope, and I resent my taxes going to "save" them in any way. It only causes civil war and worsens the problems as told in this story.


4 posted on 05/29/2005 4:46:01 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: proudofthesouth

You won't find any left wing femanists speaking out against this kind of child abuse, only conservatives I'm afraid. (And the few liberals that can recall when human rights was something liberals championed).


5 posted on 05/29/2005 4:47:32 PM PDT by NavVet (“Benedict Arnold was wounded in battle fighting for America, but no one remembers him for that.”)
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To: proudofthesouth
Why are females so hated (or is it feared?) in Africa and the Middle East?

Because the men of those cultures can't take on any other men from other cultures, so they have to abuse their women to feel good and macho about themselves.

6 posted on 05/29/2005 4:47:39 PM PDT by Hildy ( The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue)
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To: proudofthesouth
You need not be a feminist to be simply aghast of the practices in primitive societies. Including the Muslim societies. What the MSM is not covering is the fact that such practices are practiced by muslims here in the US. Arranged marriages are frequent among Bangladeshi muslims and Albanians. You need not go half way around the world to find it. I personaly know of several cases where Albanian women had their marriages arramnged by their parents and they dared not object for fear of being killed.

It is not that they fear women, simply put the men in these circles have power and anyone with power, whether male or female is unlikely to give up such power willingly.



7 posted on 05/29/2005 4:51:30 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: proudofthesouth
When I read stuff like this its almost enough to turn me back into the hardcore feminazi I once was. Why are females so hated (or is it feared?) in Africa and the Middle East?

The answer lies in civilizing these tribals, through conversion to Christianity. It is a simple prescription, but has worked for 2000 years. Exisitence of such savage behavior is directly proportional to the absence of Christianity.

8 posted on 05/29/2005 4:54:53 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: Cacique
I might add that it probably occurs among other groups here in the US as well, includ8ing arabs. Though in those cases I have no personal knowledge. But I would not be surpirsed if upon investigation it was found to be frequent. Of course, this story does not even touch on the subject of "honor killings".



9 posted on 05/29/2005 4:55:03 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Graybeard58

It's no worse than the opposite extreme we have here in the West.


10 posted on 05/29/2005 4:55:05 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Cacique
It's not just the muslims however:

Her husband arrived at midnight, as prescribed by Amhara custom, with an escort of nine best friends. He is Ayalew Dessie, an Orthodox Church deacon of 17

11 posted on 05/29/2005 4:55:38 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

A grown man marrying a seven year old child!
What do they TALK about???


12 posted on 05/29/2005 4:56:04 PM PDT by Riverman94610
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To: nwrep
I hate toi inform you,but Ethiopia is primarily a Christina country and most Ethiopians belong to the Ethiopian Coptic Chruch. This has to do more with culture than religion.



13 posted on 05/29/2005 4:56:32 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: nwrep
Exisitence of such savage behavior is directly proportional to the absence of Christianity

From the article:

Her husband arrived at midnight, as prescribed by Amhara custom, with an escort of nine best friends. He is Ayalew Dessie, an Orthodox Church deacon of 17

14 posted on 05/29/2005 4:57:24 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: proudofthesouth

A commendable custom.

I'd welcome society backing me up in the final say of a husband for any daughter of mine.

If other parents make unwise choices for their daughters, that's their look out.

Not reason enough for me and other fathers of good judgment to be penalized for their idiocy.


15 posted on 05/29/2005 4:58:57 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: nwrep

These were Christians. Ethiopia has been Christian for most of the Christian period. It's the traditionalism coupled with lack of education and lack of seeing other opportunities because of both that continue a lot of what goes on.


17 posted on 05/29/2005 5:00:29 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Graybeard58; pissant; TheBigB
Girls into wives

Shame on me.

I thought this was going to be about something else entirely.

18 posted on 05/29/2005 5:02:40 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Age of Reason

It's her getting married (when she reaches the age of majority). You as a father may have a legitimate opinion of her choice of spouse, but you get no say (final or otherwise) as to who she marries.

Keep waiting for society to give you the veto power over her life, pal. You're in for a looooong wait.


19 posted on 05/29/2005 5:03:06 PM PDT by The Las Vegas Hoodlum
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To: Cacique
What the MSM is not covering is the fact that such practices are practiced by muslims here in the US. Arranged marriages are frequent among Bangladeshi muslims and Albanians.

Some Asians as well, like Hmong.

I've known of people married and divorced by the time they're 17.

20 posted on 05/29/2005 5:08:01 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (Defeat Pat DeWine, RINO Mike DeWine's son! Tom Brinkman for Congress http://www.gobrinkman.com/)
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To: Graybeard58

I remember as a little girl, seeing pictures in the National Geographic magazines, and new stories on TV, about Africa and Asia, and other countries with "weird" customs and disgusting poverty....

Even as a child I wondered how I was so blessed to live where I did, in a house so wonderful, going to school, with clean clothes...etc...

Amazingly, 40 years later, I read this article and wonder the same thing....just, so sad....


21 posted on 05/29/2005 5:09:51 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Justice)
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To: Riverman94610
A grown man marrying a seven year old child! What do they TALK about???

[insert gratuitous & grotesque Michael Jackson reference]

22 posted on 05/29/2005 5:10:08 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (Defeat Pat DeWine, RINO Mike DeWine's son! Tom Brinkman for Congress http://www.gobrinkman.com/)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Age of Reason
It's no worse than the opposite extreme we have here in the West.

Please elaborate.

24 posted on 05/29/2005 5:12:11 PM PDT by Huntress (Possession really is nine tenths of the law.)
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To: proudofthesouth
When I read stuff like this its almost enough to turn me back into the hardcore feminazi I once was.

I don't see this having much to do with modern western feminism. There aren't any comparable customs in Western Culture. Western world feminists aren't notable in their criticism of such practices - emphasis on 'notable' - while I am certain many of them find it as deplorable a custom as I do, they aren't at the vanguard at all about publicizing and combating this type of stuff.

Why are females so hated (or is it feared?) in Africa and the Middle East?

An adolescent view of sex and sexuality most likely, and not so much hatred or fear or women necessarily (though the worldview might certainly lead some to hatred and fear). The idea that a non-virgin bride is somehow permanently spoiled, for example, is something most westerners have tossed away quite a while ago.

The fear of being cuckolded and replaced by a superior male is also likely a big motivator - it takes a certain kind of whacked-out mentality to place a cheating spouse on the same moral tier as a murderer or thief, for example. For some, the penalty for adultery is death - that's just crazy and has been wholly rejected by the West and again, has been rejected for a while.

I think Muslim males have a problem - chest pounding and exhortations about 'being a man' aside, I think they tend to exhibit many of the qualities of a chronic victim: always an excuse for sub-par performance, and exerting the little power they do have to absurd lengths.

25 posted on 05/29/2005 5:13:48 PM PDT by The Las Vegas Hoodlum
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To: nwrep

---The answer lies in civilizing these tribals, through conversion to Christianity. It is a simple prescription, but has worked for 2000 years. Exisitence of such savage behavior is directly proportional to the absence of Christianity.---

They already are Christians. These sorts of customs have prevaled wherever life is short and uncertain.


26 posted on 05/29/2005 5:14:03 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: Graybeard58

ping


27 posted on 05/29/2005 5:15:18 PM PDT by ddtorque
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To: Graybeard58
I am speechless. And horrified. And so sad that there are so many "humans" in this world who care nothing about the innocence and beauty of childhood.

I don't care where you live or what your education level might be. This story is cruel and heartbreaking.

It is their custom to not tell these babies what lies ahead of them? I would guess they are too ashamed to tell their child what they are doing to them.

28 posted on 05/29/2005 5:24:10 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: Balding_Eagle
I've never heard any feminist speak out aginst any of this.

I have. It goes like this, "Africa is Bush's fault."

29 posted on 05/29/2005 5:24:11 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Graybeard58
There are, according to child-rights activists, an estimated 50 million Tihuns scattered across the world: young teen or even preteen girls whose innocence is being sacrificed to arranged marriages, often to older men.

Just out of curiosity, where do they get these numbers?

30 posted on 05/29/2005 5:36:05 PM PDT by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: SteveMcKing

"At this point we leave Africa, not to mention it again. For it is no historical part of the World; it has no movement or development to exhibit. Historical movements in it-that is in its northern part-belong to the Asiatic or European World. Carthage displayed there an important transitionary phase of civilization; but, asisNahoenician colony, it belongs to Asia. Egypt will be considered in reference to the passage of the human mind from its Eastern to its Western phase, but it does not belong to the African Spirit. What we properly understand by Africa, is the Unhistorical, Undeveloped Spirit, still involved in the conditions of mere nature, and which had to be presented here only as on the threshold of the World's History." [Hegel, The Philosophy of History, 99.]


31 posted on 05/29/2005 5:36:14 PM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
These were Christians. Ethiopia has been Christian for most of the Christian period.

I don't think their conversion, if any of these people were actually personally converted to Christianity, made them abandon their previously barbaric or anti-Christian behavior. It sounds similar to the weird brand of Catholicism that some in Latin America (e.g. Dominican Republic) practice, which fuses pagan witchcraft and the like with Catholic rituals.

Also, to say that "Ethiopia is Christian" is a meaningless statement, just FYI. Being a Christian is about a personal relationship with Christ, not something you inherit because you are born into a "Christian" country. To say Ehtiopia is Christian is like saying Hollywood is Christian.

Bottom line, these people need the gospel preached to them in their native language, then need education so that they can read the Bible and understand the folly of their ways. This is an ongoing process.

Faith is sustained through hearing and reading and living by the word of God, not through birth in a tribe labeled as Christian.

32 posted on 05/29/2005 5:40:06 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: eccentric
Just out of curiosity, where do they get these numbers?

I call them "rectal estimates"

33 posted on 05/29/2005 5:40:18 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Marriages that are arranged that young are not consummated. In a sense the husband takes on a kind of parental role until the girl is older.

From everything that I have heard, arranged marriages work out just as well, or perhaps better than, marriages in which the man and woman choose each other.

There's a tradition in early Judaism and Christianity that although the parents arranged the marriage, the bride or groom could say "no." The marriage of Rachel to Isaac is typical. The whole thing is arranged and she does not see her husband, but she is given a chance to consent.


34 posted on 05/29/2005 5:42:08 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: proudofthesouth

I have a problem with this article. The statistics stink. It considers child-brides to be anyone under the age of 18. Now I was married at 16 and never considered myself a child bride.

Many cultures have girls who are married off early. In many cultures girls are women at 12 and 13. Only in wealthy cultures is there enough money to support children beyond puberty...and sadly in the poorest culutres, there isn't even that much money.


35 posted on 05/29/2005 5:42:25 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: Cacique

And Jews in subculuturs here in the US still arrange marriages. So do Indians from Asia and a number of other cultures. It is not necessarily a bad thing. Just a different one.

Growing up my neighbor was bethrothed to a young medical student. She was 13.


36 posted on 05/29/2005 5:44:41 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: Age of Reason

Are you saying you are for arranged marriages and/or the weddings of little girls? Please tell me this is not what you are saying.


37 posted on 05/29/2005 5:45:34 PM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: mlmr
Now I was married at 16 and never considered myself a child bride.

Most 16 year olds that I have known, both male and female, were not mature enough to take on the responsibilities of marriage and a family.

I am sure you "grew up" fast after marrying at 16. Some do, some don't.

38 posted on 05/29/2005 5:47:56 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

I saw the movie 'Osama' last week and it broke my heart.


39 posted on 05/29/2005 5:47:59 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Cacique

Growing up my neighbor was bethrothed to a young medical student. She was 13.



And I grew up and lived in one of the wealthiest suburbs of Connecticut.


40 posted on 05/29/2005 5:48:01 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: Graybeard58

Most 16 year olds that I have known, both male and female, were not mature enough to take on the responsibilities of marriage and a family.

Many 16 year olds are ready to take on the responsibilities of life. We artificially prolong childhood. 100 years ago our great grandparents married, started careers and businesses, went to war, and cared for their families at age 16 and younger. The 16 year olds you have known have been products of a wealthy society that can pamper them.

But they do not live it what has been a historical reality.


41 posted on 05/29/2005 5:52:07 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: Graybeard58

Now, if the rich countries only gave much more funding to the UN, the UN could take care of all these problems, and there would be no more suffering anywhere in the world.


42 posted on 05/29/2005 5:52:25 PM PDT by aShepard
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To: aShepard

I'll bet that's what the UN was going to do with all that oil for food money.


43 posted on 05/29/2005 5:54:24 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Riverman94610

Uh .. excuse me .. I don't think they marry the child for TALKING.


44 posted on 05/29/2005 5:55:14 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: Riverman94610
"A grown man marrying a seven year old child! What do they TALK about???"

I doubt that talking is a high priority, at least between man and wife, in these cultures. It is all about duty.

45 posted on 05/29/2005 6:00:34 PM PDT by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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To: teenyelliott
"And so sad that there are so many "humans" in this world who care nothing about the innocence and beauty of childhood."

You don't have to go to Ethiopia to find "humans" who care nothing about the innocence and beauty of childhood. In fact, you probably don't even have to leave your neighborhood.

46 posted on 05/29/2005 6:04:42 PM PDT by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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To: nwrep; Kolokotronis; kosta50; NYer; Vicomte13
Bottom line, these people need the gospel preached to them in their native language, then need education so that they can read the Bible and understand the folly of their ways. This is an ongoing process.

The Ethiopian Church is among the most ancient. They HAVE the gospel preached in their own native language, they HAVE the education and read the bible. What you see hear is due to the shortness of life. How dare you question their religious faith? Ethiopians have been Christians far longer than your ancestors (or mine).

I don't think their conversion, if any of these people were actually personally converted to Christianity, made them abandon their previously barbaric or anti-Christian behavior

'personally converted'? No, they were born Christian, baptised Christians.
47 posted on 05/29/2005 6:07:21 PM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: mlmr
Only in wealthy cultures is there enough money to support children beyond puberty...and sadly in the poorest culutres, there isn't even that much money

Young marriage seems to come from culture plus economics. In a culture where daughters become part of the husband's family, and do not contribute to their parents support in old age, there is an economic incentive to have a husband start supporting them as early as possible.

The Chinese handle the same situation by aborting females or female infanticide.

The Muslims take care of it via "bride price", thus turning the daughter into a capital investment

48 posted on 05/29/2005 6:08:18 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (When peace stands for surrender, fear, loss of dignity and freedom, it is no longer peace.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
I have. It goes like this, "Africa is Bush's fault."

LOL! You're right, they do speak out regularly.

49 posted on 05/29/2005 6:08:57 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with really stupid enemies.)
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To: sweetliberty

The concept of that type of childhood was pretty rare before the Victorian period, when there were finally enough people doing well enough they didn't need to apprentice their kids out at 9 or 10 or 12....or put them directly to work in their own farms or shops.

Most places and times, early childhood gave way to work pretty early. And the poorer you were, the more this was true.

In traditional societies, it is still pretty true.


50 posted on 05/29/2005 6:09:13 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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