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Natalee Holloway (Aruba) 5 Men Now in Custody
6-7-2005

Posted on 06/07/2005 1:35:36 PM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs

The two suspects arrested in connection with the disappearance have just been charged with murder, homicide and kidnapping leading to homicide.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: nataleeholloway; nitpick; notfunny
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Comment #561 Removed by Moderator

To: littlelilac

SO little crime and yet Aruba has one of the biggest if not the biggest prison I have ever seen and I've seen them. It's humungous.


562 posted on 06/18/2005 8:12:10 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: blueblazes
I am from Aruba and I am sick and tired of people that have never been to Aruba or maybe even heard about Aruba to say crap like this.
Aruba is not a third world country, it is in an area where you find alot of other third world country, but because it's part of the dutch commonwealth it is not.
The island has a 0.6% unemployment rate and a 97%% literacy rate. DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY? Everyone in Aruba speaks Dutch, Papiamento, Spanish and English.
We are having the same immigration problems in Aruba that they are having in Miami. We have to constantly stop boats coming Venezuela, Colombia and Haiti.
Please check into your info before posting untruths.
563 posted on 06/21/2005 10:56:41 PM PDT by smew
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To: smew

Please join us tommorrow on this Natalee thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1426433/posts?q=1&&page=1#1


564 posted on 06/21/2005 11:00:41 PM PDT by stlnative (I have tons of sharp cheese to hand out to the Natalee thread whiners. :-)
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To: smew

Welcome to FR.

That poster who slammed your island, is either banned or suspended.

I've been to Aruba. It's beautiful. Again, welcome to Free Republic.


565 posted on 06/21/2005 11:06:27 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: maggiefluffs
This information is incorrect. Joran was a high school student. His dad is the one studying to be a judge. See how we can't believe everything that is being printed. It is wait and see game. I am praying there will be closure for the parents very soon
566 posted on 06/21/2005 11:10:02 PM PDT by smew
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To: onyx

Ah, not so fast:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1424306/posts?page=113#113


567 posted on 06/21/2005 11:15:11 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: GarySpFc
I can not believe you are generalizing like that. You met one Aruban and think everyone is like that? Well I am from Aruba and went to College in the USA and have been asked when I mentioned that I was from Aruba "What state is that In?", that was an ignorant remark, but I didn't say all Americans are ignorant. I have also been discriminated against, but didn't say every one in America are racist?
Please do not generalize, just because you knew one Aruban and now 40 yrs later this happens, what does the one have to do with the other?
568 posted on 06/21/2005 11:16:53 PM PDT by smew
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To: onyx

Thank you


569 posted on 06/21/2005 11:20:38 PM PDT by smew
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To: Howlin


I read that first...lol.


570 posted on 06/21/2005 11:23:29 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: smew

smew. I want you to do something for me. Check out the beach directly below the light house and tell me (guesstimate) the number a feet a person would fall, and then tell me who much time it would take to dig a grave 10 feet deep in the soft sand?

Also, check out the distance from Carlos and Charlies to to where the party boat was docked and tell me if a boat at night leaving from that dock would have any trouble navigativng the coral reefs in order to get out to sea maybe 2 miles?

Then tell me the currents.

I can research the the moom's light on the night she disappeared.

Also being on a Sunday night, what are the chances folks would still be walking around?

Aruba is the same size as my daughter's island - Grand Cayman, and I just know I could find her or find out what happened to her within a week.


571 posted on 06/21/2005 11:48:49 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: smew
I can not believe you are generalizing like that. You met one Aruban and think everyone is like that? Well I am from Aruba and went to College in the USA and have been asked when I mentioned that I was from Aruba "What state is that In?", that was an ignorant remark, but I didn't say all Americans are ignorant. I have also been discriminated against, but didn't say every one in America are racist?
Please do not generalize, just because you knew one Aruban and now 40 yrs later this happens, what does the one have to do with the other?


I suggest you need to learn to read prior to making posts. I did not make a racist comment, nor did I imply all Arubians were like that. That said, the Joran boy does fit the image of my roommate. He is an underage drinker, underage driver, underage gambler, liar, and brawler. Joran is completely out of control, and the latest information from his parents is that he left Natalee at the beach. When does any man leave a young lady at the beach? I have little doubt the kid is guilty.
572 posted on 06/22/2005 5:27:03 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: onyx
Good evening,
Wanted to reply to your questions from last night.
About the light house. It is not necessary on a beach. On one side there are dunes and on the other side it is rocky. The ocean is maybe about 1/2 mile away. The little "hill " the light house is on is pretty wide. There is even a restaurant with ample parking space up there, but I guess if someone were to fall it would be about 35 feet? (just a guess)
if you were going to dig a 10 feet grave in the sand, it would depend on if you had a shovel available. By hand it would definitely take a while. 2hours ? never done it, so just a guess.
From Carlos and Charlie to the party boat I believe would be about 8 to 10 miles. Carlos and Charlie is down town and the party boat is located near the high rise hotels.
Where the party boat is located the currents are not very strong. however north of the light house it is very choppy. No beaches there, just rocks.If I remember correctly the party boat is ankered in the ocean away from land, you have to take a smaller boat to get there.
I agree that around the light house it would not have been very busy on a Sunday night, but the party boat since it is located near the hotels is in a busier area. The casinos are open 24 hrs so there might have been someone walking on the beach after leaving the casino. Casino hopping is pretty popular, since the hotels are so close, people walk from one casino to another quite often.
I have never been to the cayman island, but I believe Aruba's topography is a little different.On the south side of the island you will find white sandy beaches with coconut trees etc, but the north side is very rocky. A bit like Arizona, with cactus and all. There are numerous caves and even old gold mines.
Hope that answered your questions.
573 posted on 06/22/2005 9:31:23 PM PDT by smew
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To: GarySpFc
I did not imply at any time that you made a racist remark. I did not know what your room mate from the 60's had to do with the case so concluded that you must be referring to that being the behavior of everyone on the island. I was merely giving examples of things that has happened to me here in the USA and I chose not to generalize
574 posted on 06/22/2005 9:35:19 PM PDT by smew
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To: smew


Indeed you have and I thank you very much.

Anything new on the local front?

I know y'all are worried, concerned and heartbroken too.


575 posted on 06/22/2005 10:22:55 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: onyx
I must clarify something. I am from Aruba but now live in the USA married to an American. I do go home about every other year and was last there in February 2004. My family and friends are in Aruba and they are really shocked that something like this happened in Aruba. They are also a bit hurt because of some of the untruths that have been published about the island.
576 posted on 06/22/2005 10:47:23 PM PDT by smew
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To: smew


Good enough. You're still in touch with relatives on the island.


577 posted on 06/22/2005 10:48:39 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: onyx
Have been speaking to them either on line or phone almost daily. Don't want to see my telephone bill this month. Have not watched any Tv today. Did you hear anything new?
578 posted on 06/22/2005 10:50:36 PM PDT by smew
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs

someone said the Kalpoe brothers cannibalized Natalee; I never would have even thought of it!


579 posted on 07/02/2005 9:54:51 AM PDT by hefer
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To: smew
Thanks smew for your comments. Not everyone is ready to condemn and criticize Aruba and its govt. I have tried to remain objective about the suspects, but the hype and branding is getting a bit beyond what even in America would be considered appropriate to be said or requested to be done about suspects who were not proved guilty of anything.

As every parent my heartfelt wishes are that Beth and her daughter, Natalee, will be reunited. She is experiencing a trauma that many fear, but few have lived through. However, I also believe that, as a Christian, her words yesterday were not Christ-like. How can one expect the people there to see her as a woman of faith if: with one hand she is passing out prayer cards and begging others to pray for her daughter, while, at the same time she slanders the sons of another sorrowful mother by calling them “criminals?” In the United States she could be sued for such public pronouncements.

The Twitty’s judgment of Aruba’s law is reflective of an attitude of American snobbery and superiority where they have no right to be so judgmental. Many in America are appalled at what was said. They chose to allow their daughter to visit Aruba but Aruba does not have to choose to negate their laws to suit the Twitty family. Because Natalee disappeared there (and there still is no evidence of a crime), and the Twitty’s are unhappy with the investigative proceedings does not mean they have a right to criticize/judge the laws or government of the country. It does not appear their behavior is representative of the type a family would project if purporting to be faithful Christians. Christianity is more than verbalizing a belief, it is displayed in one’s actions, demeanor and compassion for all, not just expectations that others see one as being Christian.

But beyond that, there is a difference between wanting the justice that so many want to see done in this case, and the angry vengeance the family is now displaying. It would be wise if they were to remember that Our Lord reprimanded that vengeance is His.

There is no definitive proof of anything: Against Joran, or his father or the Kalpoe brothers, or others held or mentioned. Or that someone else, yet unknown took Natalee, or that she is now in another land, or that she wandered off and fell into a hole, or even found a way to escape to somewhere else herself. Some of these may be absurd, and many don't make sense but none has been disproved or proven. So no one should be branded a "criminal" at this point. And filling the air with hate rather than prayer is simply not a positive approach. Hate never resolved anything or brought any good. Only prayer can help all the people involved.

There is a time when, especially if one is a Christian, one must display a true trust in God. There must be a willingness to place problems in His hands, and not fall prey to the desire to evoke a worldwide “lynch mob” mentality, and hateful emotion to be directed against one’s own targets of anger. The family’s sorrow is understandable, but their denouncement of others is unjust, unkind, and not excused by their frustration. It is simply not Christian to make pronouncements or threatening statements about possible future retaliations against others if one does not get one’s way.

I don’t believe I saw such behavior by Princess Dianna’s family/friends after the suspicious accident that resulted in her and Dodi’s deaths. There was worldwide sorrow, and intensive investigation, but neither Dianna’s family nor Dodi’s advocated outright hype/hatred/anger. Both were beloved by thousands which, indeed, included their horrified and traumatized siblings, relatives, two brave children and particularly, in the case of Dodi, an adoring father. Both died in a land with laws and investigative processes different from their home countries. There were years of continued investigation and suspicion, but there were no pleas for the whole world to unite against a country, a suspect, the driver, or decisions of that government concerning the investigation.

No one is disputing that the Twitty’s situation is anything but tragic. No one faults them for wanting to discover the truth. But the end does not always justify the means, particularly when they are showing no concern or acceptance that current facts do not support their theories or “gut feelings.” To continue to use the public’s compassion as a tool to force their own desires on others displays an attitude that is based more on ego and aggression and is a misuse of the support the public had willingly given.

I pray that Beth and her husband can find their way back to God and His teachings and the faith they proclaim sustains them. It appears they mouth the words but do not feel the words deep in their hearts. If they did they would be demonstrating a sincere patience, understanding, and acceptance of the laws of Aruba and the rights of all others and would be following the examples set by Our Lord. They would not be ready to retaliate and put forth an expose according to what they feel they know or have observed simply to suit their own agenda and in the process attempt to condemn a whole system or government. They would pray for God to give them peace about the things they do not understand, and grace to deal with the outcome of any efforts. They would open themselves to God’s handling and not try to usurp the government’s authority, or God’s role in the midst of their crisis.

It was interesting to watch the mother of the Kalpoe brothers who, when being interviewed after the return of her sons showed neither anger nor condemnation, nor called names or was slanderous. Nor did she display an irritation when asked about Beth’s statement against her boys. She only said she was “disappointed” by the words, but did not even resort to mentioning Beth’s name when asked whom she was disappointed in. In her simple, calm, admirable, compassionate way, she projected a more Christ-like behavior than has been apparent with the Twitty family who have made loud noises proclaiming their faith while making demands and expecting worldwide retaliation and support.

Did Jessica Lunsford’s father call names? Did Elizabeth Smart’s father demand universal support of his efforts or desires or slander innocent people? Were their worries, fears, sorrows, and in the case of Mark Lunsford, his loss any less poignant? Those people maintained decorum, did not flaunt religious statements, nor criticize the investigative efforts – which, in the case of Jessica, right in our own country, have certainly proven to be far worse than those in Aruba.

580 posted on 07/06/2005 11:14:36 AM PDT by CitizenM ("An excuse is worse than an lie, because an excuse is a lie hidden." Pope John Paul, II)
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