CBS PETITIONED TO PROBE SHOWTIME

Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights ^ | 6-9-05 | Catholic League

[auntyfemenist]

Actually, this is pretty much common knowledge. What do you know about her facilities around the world? If it were just a theory, and much evidence had not been submitted to support that fact, I would be more concerned about trying to convince you of it.

I should say, refute me with facts of your own. Mine are already well know.

[Antoninus]

I'm still waiting for your list of public statements made by priests and bishops calling for IRA terrorists to attack their Northern Irish brethren in the name of religion. Many such quotes can be found for Islamic religious leaders.

Remember, this all started with a comparison of the Catholic League to Islamic terrorist defenders like CAIR. The comparison has no validity and you know it. NO Catholic religious leaders defend terrorists--not even the IRA who purport to be Catholic.

[elc]

You seem to have ignored my comment that just because they haven't made public statements, that doesn't mean they haven't supported the IRA. There are plenty of examples, the Christian Brothers being just one.

Remember, this all started with a comparison of the Catholic League to Islamic terrorist defenders like CAIR.

I wasn't taking issue with the comparison. I was taking issue with the statement that there is "no such thing as Catholic terrorists" And that statement is absolutely false.

NO Catholic religious leaders defend terrorists--not even the IRA who purport to be Catholic.

So what do you call it when Catholic priests are actively involved in IRA bombings that kill innocent people? Active involvement is a helluva lot worse than defending them.

[Antoninus]

If had the millions and millions of dollars that Mother Theresa did, I could.

That's an idiotic answer, but it's exactly the one given by the other do-nothing critic on this thread. It's as if you people think that Mother Theresa was sunning herself by the pool one day when someone came along and dropped $10 million on her. She was given that money by people who saw the work she was already doing and wanted to help.

She didn't. Most of it went to the church with no real investment back to better facilities and medical care. This is all well documented, BTW.

Sure. Documented by people who have a warped, twisted, and perverse understanding of how the Catholic Church functions and who consequently put the worst possible spin on it.

First, you assume a lot, and when did catholics get the monopoly on Christian care of fellow human beings.

Oh, I see. There were people competing to care for these poor, dying wretches in the streets of Calcutta, is that it? Mother Theresa just happened to get there first and shut out all of the multitude of other caregivers and aid agencies who were banging down the doors to help these unwanted pariahs.

It is now no secert that Mother Theresa's Organization did less for the people they were caring for than they could have. I find it rather shameful that an organization like the church would take all those millions and not provide better care.

A statement like this proves that you have no idea of the scope of poverty in a city like Calcutta, let alone a country like India, where a population twice that of the entire US lives in abject poverty. $10 million is literally a drop in the bucket when dealing with such numbers.

Spiritual benefits or not, this does not negate the ugliness of that fact.

It takes an amazingly twisted person to look at something as beautiful as a woman dedicating her entire life to selflessly serving the poorest of the poor--to the point of founding a religious order to carry on her work--and find ugliness in it. I pity you.

[Antoninus]

You seem to have ignored my comment that just because they haven't made public statements, that doesn't mean they haven't supported the IRA. There are plenty of examples, the Christian Brothers being just one.

I ignored them because they are irrelevant. Produce a statement showing that such priests publicly defended or endorsed IRA terrorism AND were not defrocked or disciplined by their bishop and I'll concede your point. Failing that, it's all whispers and innuendo.

So what do you call it when Catholic priests are actively involved in IRA bombings that kill innocent people? Active involvement is a helluva lot worse than defending them.

I agree. Now show me some proof that such a thing actually happened and that the offending priests were not defrocked or disciplined. I produced an article showing the Primate of Ireland calling for a disbanding of the IRA. Surely you can produce some evidence holding up your viewpoint.

Once again, this is all really a question of semantics. Terrorism is not and has never been endorsed by the Catholic Church. That some people who claim to be Catholics have committed terrorist actions, however, is beyond question. But to call such people "Catholic terrorists", when the Church formally abhors such acts, is not valid.

[elc]

I agree. Now show me some proof that such a thing actually happened and that the offending priests were not defrocked or disciplined. I produced an article showing the Primate of Ireland calling for a disbanding of the IRA. Surely you can produce some evidence holding up your viewpoint.

Read Martin Dillon or Malachi O'Doherty.

I can produce an article that shows Spanish Islamic Commission condemning OBL. What does that prove?

Hey, if you want to keep living in your world where Catholic terrorism doesn't exist. Fine by me.

[elc]

Now show me some proof that such a thing actually happened and that the offending priests were not defrocked or disciplined


(Catholic News)

[auntyfemenist]

You should not forget, that Catholocism in Ireland, is a shade different than the rest of the world. Theirs developed differently, due in part to their isolation from the rest of Europe.

Irish Catholic priests have traditionally taken sides in political disputes, even to the point of violence for a long time in history now. This stems back to the time when England ruled them with an iron fist and they felt they must resist the protestants and all the bads things they perceived they brought upon the Irish.

[auntyfemenist]

You are correct in your assertion, but in defense of my statements, I can cite more evidence. I just thought everyone knew this stuff by now.

There is little dispute regarding many of the facts, and they are so widely known now. For instance, someone who didn't like your beliefs to begin with, could call you a drugged-out pedophile matricide, and state it over and over until gullible readers accept it. But I wouldn't believe it without proof.:)

I beg to differ. This happens all the time. Need I remind you of the many, many erroneous statements by the Democrats in this country? They formulate catch phrases all the time that the Media repeats ad nauseum, till it become true in the general public perception.

Perhaps you, like many of us here (we are Freepers, after all) can discern the truth of a matter after looking at some facts. However, that is not always true of the broader general population.

[auntyfemenist]

With all due respect, a google search results to a lot of sentimental articles written by people who liked her still does not refute the facts that are aserted by Hitchens, Penn and Teller, lots of her own sisters, and many others.

I just can't find anyone who is denying what these folks have asserted. If someone would say that she did indeed provide healthcare, she didn't have millions in the bank that could not be spent, that she did say Diana would be better off divorced while fighting for Ireland not to repeal their divorce ban, syaing that the God in your head is the one you should go with..."

Someone please, give me other facts. The fact that a lot of people were sad when she died does not negate the fact.

I might also add, don't even bother mentioning she won the Un-Noble Peace prize. So did Yasser Arafat.

[auntyfemenist]

Then there was a man we picked up from a drain, half eaten by worms. And after we had brought him to the home, he only said, "I have lived like an animal in the street, but I am going to die as an angel, loved and cared for." Then after we had removed all the worms from this body, all he said - with a big smile - was: "Sister, I am going home to God." And he died. And to think this wicked woman didn't even give him any ice chips.

...or anitbiotics, or aspirin, or any kind of medical treatment at all. Who knows if he could have been treated and saved. Likley, if he was able to talk, and they removed the worms from his body, he might have been able to be treated further.

[xJones]

Aunty, you don't need to freepmail or ping me again until you can come up with something other than Christopher Hitchens' unproven allegations. And older Freepers can remember Mr. Hitchens from the Oct. 31, 1998 MFJ in Washington D.C. He was there also, with an estimated 4,000 Freepers and he made less than a good impression. If he could stay sober for a while he might write a good book.

[mware]

interesting web title secular humanism

[mware]

Yuu know the hospitals in India are not obligated to treat everyone. For God's sake they took the maggots off this man and gave him a few minutes of dignity in his life.

[xJones]

Would you, for the last time, get off the Freepmail to me unless you can specifically state anything besides Christopher Hitchens' allegations?

You have no other sources that I know of, and your maudlin comments about "being a Christian" are unbelievable, to put it politely. It's wonderful you joined FR last month, and now let's see your proof of Mother Teresa's sins from another source than the permanently soused Christopher Hitchens.

[Tall_Texan]

Considering how much Showtime has devoted itself to pro-homosexual programming, could they have come up with a better word in the headline than "probe"?

[Frank Sheed]

Antoninus,

This is one of my fondest anecdotes about Mother Teresa. It explains many things that you are hearing on this board from certain quarters.

Mother Teresa was visited by a very prominent prelate. The Monsignor came to watch her nuns feed the poor and dying and to care for them in their final hours. He was deeply moved. He blessed the foundress of the Missionaries of Charity and those nuns there, and went off to catch his train.

He had gotten only several hundred yards from the Mission in Calcutta when he found an elderly man covered with sores and dying in the gutter. He grew very upset and then became extremely angry. He hurried back to Mother Teresa and accosted her. "Mother," he said, "there is a man dying in the street not more than 300 yards from here! Why didn't your nuns find this man and bring him here for care and treatment? He is dying!"

The tiny nun finished cleaning a poor soul about to die, and then looked up at the irritated priest. "Monsignor," she said, "the Sisters and I look after all the souls that God chooses to put into our path. These are those you see here. This dying man you speak of was placed in YOUR path. God has made him your responsibility!"

In a nutshell, this is what you are experiencing here.

In my younger days, I had occasion to see an occasional poor soul covered with maggots who lost limbs or worse for lack of simple hygiene and care. How many who are second guessing this good nun, including Hitchens, have ignored such poor souls and walked on? Mother Teresa didn't.

Frank

[NYer]

This dying man you speak of was placed in YOUR path. God has made him your responsibility!"

Excellent! Thank you for that post .. I had not read this one. Very reminiscent of all the antagonism tossed at Mother Angelica and the EWTN network she founded. The 'princes' would come, take a tour and depart, commending her on her good works, when she actually needed money to get the network up and running.

One day, Mother called in the janitor and asked him to take stakes, string and rags outside. She then asked him to stake off a certain plot of land by planting the stakes, stringing the rope and hanging the white rags. The next day a visiting Cardinal asked her what it represented. She commented that this was "a reminder" to God that she needed a studio. He returned to his diocese and several weeks later a generous check arrived in the mail from an anonymous donor.

We are all part of the same community. May we continue to rebuild it on the strength of our faith in Christ, our Lord.

[Criminal Number 18F]

There's also plenty of evidence that Catholic priests in Ireland actively working with the IRA, hiding them, etc.

I left the Catholic church over exactly this issue, although not in Ireland. In South and Central America and in Africa, Catholic "Missionaries," chief among them the American Maryknoll order, were teaching "Liberation Theology," which among other things said, "Jesus was the first Communist," and "Jesus was a revolutionary," and "If he were alive today he would support Fidel and Los Barbudos against the Yanqui."

The Maryknolls ran safe houses. They indoctrinated terrorists. They stored, maintained, and issued weapons.

They did all this with money from decent Catholics in America who thought they were helping hard-working missionaries to spread the word of the Lord, and who would have been mortified if they knew what their contributions really did.

So don't say there are no Catholic terrorists. My grandmother had been giving to these creeps for forty-something years, and they were leaning on her for a position in her will. I walked her through what was being done in her name in El Salvador, Nicaragua (where priests acted as informers and betrayed confessional sanctity to the Sandinista regime! Out of "solidarity!") and other places -- it was hard to do only using open sources, but fortunately all the Maryknoll stuff that had been sent to her, she still had.

After that the priest that had done my confirmation contacted me and criticized me for it (how did he learn? Her pastor, or the Maryknolls?) and told me I was "greedy" and "mean" and "a bad Catholic" because I didn't share "the missionary order's committment to 'social justice'" meaning, of course, 'revolution.'

There are many, many good, decent, Christian people in the Catholic Church at all levels from the lowliest parishioner to the highest levels of the hierarchy. I have no doubt that while the Maryknolls wanted me and my friends and our Latino allies dead, that the Pope (John Paul II) was on our side. But there are also some bad people in the church. After all, it's made up of many millions, all (by definition) sinners.

I have no opinion on Mother Teresa. Hitchens is so angry that he casts doubt on his own case, and I'm sure I'll never see the Penn and Teller show. But there are most definitely Catholic terrorists, and you can take that to the bank.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F