Payback For Germany In Wrangle Over UN Top Seat

xzins offered a simple yet elegant solution that I could agree with but maybe is not happening.

JeffersonRepublic.com, I see it as not diluting the US's influence. One less permanent member with a veto, ie France off as a permanent member, would add to the US's influence. The way to sell it is to balance the security counsel by regions and to do that would require a South American representative. The new 15 member SC would have only four members with vetos, US, UK, Russia and China rather than 5 it has now.

I think the arguement for removing a permanent member is that the current set up of 5 permanent members was established for the circumstances after WWII and all five of the winning allies got permanent seats. But of course we know that France was only techically an ally.

Anyway, geographic/population balance could be used to remove France as a permanent member although they would veto the action if it happens through the security counsel?
Also such a move might lead to the collapse of the UN another plus.

Maybe it is quite astonishing, but large parts of the political informed people in Germany see the attempt of the socialist red-green gouvernment to bring the country into the SC of the UN, extremely skeptical. If Germany would be a permanent member, it wouldn't be possible to refuse substancial help in the crises of this world anymore. Especially the German public is not interested in more engagement. No matter if it should be financially or militarily. This is the reason why the coming "new" more right wing gouvernment of the CDU under the lead of the new chancellor Angela Merkel, who will probably succeed Schroeder and his scum in autumn, will not press the membership ahead wholeheartedly. The best thing that could happen to her, is that the US keep Germany out the SC and she could blame it on Schroeder (who is already history - a lame duck). Everybody in Germany would be happy since we must not waste our money and soldiers in conflicts far away from Europe. Others (especially the US) would have to pay the bill.

Because Mrs. Merkel will be a stauch ally of the US and G. W. Bush, I doubt that it is in the interest of America to keep Germany out of the SC. It would be much easier to share the burden of the "global war on terror", if Germany would have more responsibility. If the current status is going to be cemented, there will be no real contribution of the fifth largest economy of the world in the near future.

There's no point in any African nation getting a seat -- they have NO way of projecting their power or keeping the peace even on their own continent. They can't even pay their way. Ditto for Latin American and Caribbean nations. Now Australia CAN carry her weight and MORE, but she's not got a large population (it does count!), France, yes she does toss her weight around West Africa, but I think that's really just an extension of colonialism. the UK deserves her seat as does Russia, the US (of course) and yes, even China. Japan should be on because I feel Japan should be rehabilitated into the world and I think Japan CAN carry her weight military if need be (they are easily able to carry their weight economically). India can take care of the Indian ocean pretty well (as demonstrated during the Tsunami crisis) and is improving further militarily, socially and economically.

Firstly I must say that I doubt that new government of Poland will support the German bid. I don’t think that Schroeder deserved for any kind of support, beside I don’t think that additional European members it is a good idea for us.

Personally I would like to see only one permanent seat for EU with rotation system among the biggest members.

Everybody in Germany would be happy since we must not waste our money and soldiers in conflicts far away from Europe.

Firstly European countries should at last resolve problems with final status of Kosovo and seriously think what to do with Bosnia. We definitely should do that and after short period withdraw our troops. The most important conflicts in European orbit are in Moldova, Georgia and Karabah. These conflicts must be resolved as soon as it is possible. How Europe may think about conflicts far from old continent if we have so many problems here?

"...Personally I would like to see only one permanent seat for EU with rotation system among the biggest members..."

The whole SC-system of the UN is BS because it doesn't represent the real relative strength of the dominating powers in this world. Its decisions are not legitimiated by a democratic instance either. Therefore it is ridicoulus to pick out certain countries and to forget about the others. To give an uncontroversial example: Why is Italy no candidate to the SC but Japan? Italy proved its will to help and its responsibility and has done far more than Japan in the recent crises. The only reason for a membership of Japan is its mere size.

It doesn't matter if Europe gets a new member in the SC or not. The system will still be BS. The conditions and the legality for unilateral action (i.e. the preemptive strike on Iraq) can't be decided or found in this exclusive club. We (the whole world) need a completely new and fairer system.

BTW - I o not think it is in the interest of the US or Europe that the UN does not work anymore, since it is still a perfect platform to solve conflicts before they get really hot. Therefore I do not see a solution in a synchronised SC that is represented by the friends of America only. Nobody of the real bad guys (Putin or our friends from China) would respect such an institution if they feel themselves not represented in a fair proportion. As I already said - the SC needs reforms but they have to go deeper.

"...Firstly European countries should at last resolve problems with final status of Kosovo and seriously think what to do with Bosnia. We definitely should do that and after short period withdraw our troops. The most important conflicts in European orbit are in Moldova, Georgia and Karabah. These conflicts must be resolved as soon as it is possible. How Europe may think about conflicts far from old continent if we have so many problems here?..."

Good point. This is the area, were I want so see the help of my country first and it is the place where it is needed most. Nothing more to say.

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