Really Cool Invention Brings Teens Awards (Amazing Kids-Invented What GM Couldn't)

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 07/06/2005 | Jessica Ravitz

[FastCoyote]

"It is unlikely that such an invention would be of any benefit as a typical auto AC unit has at least a 12,000 BTU capacity which would equal about 3.5 kW or about 5 HP. Since a typical 2 inch TE cooler component uses about 35 Watts one would need about 100 pieces and figure out a way to cool the hot side and deliver cabin air to the cool sides to circulate. It ain't gonna happen."

Thanks, that explains it, the boys have a highly underpowered refrigeration unit. Something just didn't smell right, because I've been starting o look at these things too.

[Lord_Baltar]

Bravo!

[from occupied ga]

You explain to me how the electrical load of the alternator makes it more difficult to turn the rotor.

I, along with about 4 other people already did, you arrogant dumbass.

[myself6]

Thats what I thought before I thunk it out. :)

[Aquinasfan]

How come everyone knows what a Peltier chip is except me? And why didn't anyone in the AC business think of this before? A 50% savings? Something smells fishy.

[myself6]

Arrogant? Sometimes.

Dumb-ass? Not really, I just jump in without thinking things through some times.


I will defend my position to the death if I believe Im right, but it is possible to convince me with facts and logic that I am wrong. I will admit error, as I have done.

If personal sh_t is used against me in an argument I Will turn on that person in kind.

[Aquinasfan]

This is from one of the manufacturers of Peltier effect devices. Source: Tellurex Corp.. Now, what do you suppose these kids know that Tellurex Corp doesn't?

They each got $25k college scholarships?

[Aquinasfan]

It seems inefficient to have the A/C running at 100% when it is not needed. The peltier chips would not have to be run in such an inefficient manner. You might only need to use half the number of installed chips when cooling at a moderate temperature.

Now that could be legit. But there are variable-speed central air units now. Maybe variable-speed car A/C units are possible.

[Aquinasfan]

i've got a jeep that i increased gas mileage (and power output) by yanking the a/c and upgrading the alternator.

You wouldn't believe what the A/C does to my acceleration-challenged Saturn. It can barely make it uphill with the A/C on.

[RGSpincich]

Questionable gas savings aside, I want cold air coming from my AC. I mean my wife-needs-to-wear-a-sweater-while-riding-with-me-cold. Can these chips deliver that?

[null and void]

The energy to charge the batteries, or rather the energy to run the generators that feed the peltiers are accounted for in the 4 billion gallons of fuel left over. Apparently this system is twice as efficient as standard AC, which of course means they still require energy, but only half as much.

Which is a good thing!

[null and void]

I will defend my position to the death if I believe I'm right, but it is possible to convince me with facts and logic that I am wrong. I will admit error, as I have done.

If personal sh_t is used against me in an argument I Will turn on that person in kind.

Well said...

[mountainlyons]

Hybrid technology needs a lot of work but it has come a long way. I myself have studied off and on the alternative energy sources for about 30 years. My favorite for me now is wood gas which can use sawdust from my sawmill to power a tractor to power the sawmill. Most US engineering is simple minded and dumps byproducts in stead of using them.

[Lloyd227]

"the alternator will not become harder to turn 2000 RPM as the electrical load increases..."

Actually, I believe the alternator most certainly becomes harder to turn as the electrical load increases.

I believe that's the precise point you've been called on in these discussions.

Cheers,
Lloyd

[Lloyd227]

"I refuse to drive a car that modifies the RPM of the engine according to the electrical needs. F--k THAT!"

Ok, now I'll join the chorus and say that you, sir are a complete moron.

Cheers,
Lloyd

[Lloyd227]

"Peltiers need help to get rid of heat. AC closed loop systems don't need much"

But in the case of cooling the cabin of a vehicle and since we're dumping that heat outside the cabin, do we really care if the heat load goes up considerably? i.e. obviously the real efficiency of these chips is far less than other approaches, but in this specific application, are we really required to account for the additional heat dumped outside the cabin?

I don't see that it matters if the total heat to be dumped increases by 1000% as long as the ability to dump it exists and the cooling effect inside the cabin succeeds.

(actually, now that I'm thinking about it..... if we put ten million vehicles on the road with a 1000% increase in the heat being dumped... that is probably a measurable effect to "global warming". Ironic isn't it that these kids won an award based on the environmental impact? :-) )