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I hope you realize that many people don't have strong fathers or father figures. These are the folks programs like this are trying to reach. They probably wouldn't come to a church to learn it either. My husband was not a good father figure. I had to take over and the kids have turned out just fine, but all have been married twice. They had no example of what a husband should be.

I have seen almost every example you can think of over the years and have had to deal with them too. That's too bad that your husband was not a good father figure. Next to being a good father, being a good mother is just as important. Fortunately, your children had at least one of them. I admire those women who have had scumbag husbands (I'm not saying this applies to you) leave them in dire situations, yet who have risen above it to raise their children successfully.

One lady I knew was left with raising 8 kids by herself by her husband who left her to go shack up with a secretary. She did NOT go on welfare, though she did have some help from supportive neighbors (e.g. watching kids to give her a break). Her kids are turning out wonderful and are well-behaved, successful in school, etc.

My husband was a good man, but an alcoholic. It ruined his life and harmed his children. I was harmed as well, but I'm stubborn and kept moving forward. I try not to think of the past but it does rear its ugly head now and then. I've tried hard not to have hatred or resentment toward him. He died an alcoholic and it was a real time of grief for me. I always loved him but it was hard to put up with that kind of life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Going to church and getting involved there was my salvation. My children went as well, although none of them attend church regularly now.

Re your post #97 -- They had no example of what a husband should be.

I have seen almost every example you can think of over the years and have had to deal with them too.

There is also an absentee father problem that exists at the OTHER end of the economic spectrum, as you both may realize.

I know someone in a very wealthy neighborhood, and he and his wife go to every PTO meeting at their kids' public school. (A lot of rich people send their kids to public schools in this particular suburban area.)

And, he was telling me how shocked he was to see so few fathers ever attend these PTO meetings or go to any other school functions, as he goes to all of them. And, he a very busy financial hot shot; however, he makes the time for his kids in this way and other ways. Not all upper class, working fathers do that.