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Newspaper Claims Former DOJ Officials Confirm Bombing Coverup (Clinton's DOJ & FBI)
KTOK.com ^ | 7/14/2005 | Jerry Bohnen

Posted on 07/15/2005 9:05:52 PM PDT by ex-Texan

The McCurtain Daily Gazette today reports several former powerful and high ranking Justice department officials confirm there was a coverup of the investigation to the Oklahoma City bombing.

Ten years after the Oklahoma City bombing, a published report says several former high ranking Department of Justice officials who want to remain anonymous claim there was a coverup of the attack which killed 168 persons.

The story is carried by the McCurtain Daily Gazette in Idabel whose reporter J-D Cash has spent a decade investigating the bombing and its ties to Elohim City, a religious and white separatist compound in eastern Oklahoma.

"We were put into contact with some very, very high level former Department of Justice officials who have seen about as much of this coverup of the Oklahoma City bombing they can stomach," said Cash in an interview with KTOK News.

He explained the once powerful officials in the DOJ believe the story is coming out because of the lawsuit and freedom of information fight between Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue and the FBI. Trentadue seeks the bombing records to show his brother Kenneth, an inmate in the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center in the summer of 1995 was beaten to death as federal agents interrogated him about the bombing. The attorney believes his brother closely fit the description of a suspect who had ties to bomber Tim McVeigh.

The former law officers say the story will show the government was aware of German national Andreas Strassmeier who allegedly help plan the bombing while he lived at Elohim City.

"He was providing information to the German government. The Justice department would not allow the FBI to do the type of investigation of Elohim before the bombing they felt like they should," added Cash. The officials also say the bombing occurred because the sting was 'bungled' by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms.

(see attached story from McCurtain Daily Gazette)

Former officials dispute claims FBI investigated Strassmeir or Elohim City connections

McCurtain Daily Gazette

By J.D. Cash and Lt. Col. Roger Charles, (U.S.M.C. retired)

Speaking on the condition that their names not be revealed, a group of former Department of Justice (DOJ) officials have told this newspaper that the FBI never seriously investigated Tim McVeigh’s connections to a right-wing paramilitary training camp.

Neither, they say, were McVeigh’s ties to a notorious bank robbery gang operating in the Midwest investigated. Further, FBI agents interested in working the case were thwarted by Department of Justice attorneys and by other FBI officials.

Even spoken with an identity hidden because of fears of retribution, the explosive statements are especially surprising, coming as they do on the heels of a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision that journalists may be jailed if they refuse to reveal sources in federal cases. That decision has reportedly already had a chilling effect on some federal whistleblowers.

In addition to the former officials’ personal insights into the case, however, the newspaper has been able to corroborate much of what they have said about problems with the OKBOMB investigation with other sources and documents pertaining to the bombing of the A.P. Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995.

Documents from the FBI and other federal agencies involved in the OKBOMB case support their claims that the FBI failed to arrest all the persons involved and that political considerations played a role in deliberately limiting the investigation to Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier – even though the agencies assured bombing victims and the public that all persons involved would be brought to justice.

One former high-ranking member of the DOJ said the investigation began with five very experienced FBI commanders appointed by former director Louis Freeh to investigate the bombing.

However, the former official explained that after each of those men left the case, a less experienced agent took over the OKBOMB investigation, and the probe into other suspects suddenly ground to a halt.

One person assigned to the bombing investigation said, “I was inside the FBI office when Freeh showed up. There was a loud shouting match with our SAC.

“It wasn’t long after that Bob Ricks announced he was retiring and taking a job with the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety. He left the investigation and by the time the case was transferred to Denver, the prosecutors were telling the field agents what evidence to bring them.”

Prosecutors wanted only select evidence, he indicated. “I caught hell for sending in evidence that people at Elohim City were involved. They (prosecutors in Denver) said, ‘Never send us anything that points to anyone other than McVeigh and Nichols.’”

Each of those persons who contributed to this story has continued to follow media reports about the bombing for over a decade. They have come forward – albeit without attribution – to express concerns and to provide details of a government cover-up of a failed sting operation at Elohim City – a sting operation, each agrees, that may have been bungled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF).

“I was close to the bombing case immediately,” one former official told the Gazette, “and over time it became clear the White House had taken the investigation away from the FBI and handed it over to officials at the Department of Justice.

“And that’s not how it works. The FBI should investigate and then turn the evidence over to them to decide if they want to proceed with a prosecution. That didn’t happen in this case. In this case, after the original commanders left the case, the DOJ began calling the shots – telling field agents what they could investigate and what they couldn’t.”

Several law enforcement sources had previously indicated to this newspaper that they are convinced from the evidence they have seen that McVeigh was aligned with Andreas C. Strassmeir, a German military officer that some believe was still on the payroll of the Bundesweir (German military) at the time of the blast.

One former senior member of the DOJ put it in strong terms. He laid blame at the feet of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Forearms.

“I know Strassmeir was central to this crime and I believe Carol Howe, the informant, was dead right. She warned the ATF and they blew this whole thing. They knew the details of what was in the works and they messed everything up.

“FBI headquarters knew about Strassmeir’s presence at the Elohim City compound and couldn’t admit it. They had to find a way to work around the agents in the field. I don’t think (Danny) Defenbaugh had any idea how much stuff was being withheld from him and his men.”

Indeed, in the days leading up to McVeigh’s planned execution, thousand of pages of documents regarding other suspects in the case suddenly began turning up in FBI field offices around the country.

With the possibility that there could be thousands of pages of important FBI interviews that attorneys for McVeigh had never seen, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft had no choice but to put off the execution until the matter could be further explored.

A former crime lab technician, Defenbaugh, suddenly was placed in the embarrassing position of having to admit the largest and most expensive investigation in history had been compromised. He left his position as Dallas SAC and entered retirement soon after thousands of pages of previously unrevealed documents surfaced.

Regarding some of the most recently discovered documents, a former DOJ official said that he is still unable to answer all the questions, but agrees with others who played a role in the OKBOMB investigation, saying Strassmeir was and still remains the key figure in the bungled sting operation and subsequent cover-up.

“We didn’t do an interview with this guy,” he said. “Can you believe that?

Two assistant U.S. attorneys made a phone call over a year after the bombing and let an FBI agent listen and take notes. Hell, that’s not a real investigation. The FBI would go straight to Berlin and get him. This is a joke.”

Confirming his recollection of events, the newspaper has obtained a copy of a FD-302, which records an FBI agent’s recollections of two telephone interviews with Andy Strassmeir.

Strassmeir’s attorney, Kirk Lyons, was included in both overseas conference calls made at the behest of the DOJ. The first conference call took place on April 30, 1996. The second took place the following day.

Calling from Oklahoma City, special agent Lou Ann Sandstrom monitored both calls to Berlin, while DOJ lawyers Aitan Goelman and Beth Wilkinson asked several questions about Strassmeir’s relationship with McVeigh. The FD-302 notes that, “Strassmeir did not remember meeting McVeigh until he was interviewed by defense investigator Richard Reyna. Reyna told Strassmeir that McVeigh remembered meeting Strassmeir, and that Strassmeir bought several items from McVeigh.

“Reyna also told Strassmeir that McVeigh also tried to call him.”

Claiming that his memory was refreshed by the visit from the defense investigator, Strassmeir said he told Reyna that he may have met McVeigh at the Tulsa Gun Show and never saw nor heard from him again.

Notes recorded by Special Agent Sandstrom also reflect the following exchange concerning a phone call McVeigh made from his motel room in Kingman, AZ., before the bombing: “Strassmeir advised he could not recall where he was on April 5, 1995, when a call came into Elohim City for him, but believed he was out working on a nearby property, and did not receive the call.

“On April 19, 1995, Strassmeir said he and Eddie Wing were clearing a fence line on property located ten miles from Elohim City. Strassmeir could not remember the name of the property owner.”

Concluding the interview, Strassmeir told Goelman and Wilkinson that, “He was not involved in the planning or execution of the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, nor did he have any foreknowledge of the bombing.”

Howe revelations

Readers may recall that this newspaper published a series of articles beginning in the spring of 1997 detailing its interviews with ATF informant Carol E. Howe.

Howe, a college student and former Houston, Texas, debutante, was recruited by the Tulsa office of the ATF in the late summer of 1994. Howe accepted employment with the agency after passing a polygraph examination.

As a paid confidential informant, her assignment was to infiltrate the neo-Nazi movement in eastern Oklahoma. From trips to Elohim City in the fall of 1994, Howe quickly discovered a plot there to overthrow the government with violence. At the center of the conspiracy was the camp’s paramilitary advisor “Andy the German” Strassmeir.

Howe’s reports were sent to the Dallas regional office and then forwarded to Washington, D.C. Marked sensitive-confidential, her identity was simply CI-183. The Howe file clearly indicates a violent plot at Elohim City – a plot that included “(M)ass shootings and bombings of government installations.” And the person said to be urging the killings was Strassmeir.

Interviewed on Dec. 24, 1996, Howe told the Gazette, “All Andy wanted to do was blow up federal buildings. That’s the truth. He even told the young radicals he was training that, if they wouldn’t go to war with the U.S. government, he would leave and find a group that would.”

Speaking of Elohim City spiritual advisor and founder, Robert Millar, Howe told the Gazette: “Millar even gave a sermon and urged the younger members under Andy’s training to prepare for war with the government. He told them other militias would follow suit. The key date was the upcoming anniversary of Waco: April 19th.”

So violent was the rhetoric at Elohim City that the Tulsa office obtained a large number of “mail covers,” and phone calls were recorded at the urging of the U.S. attorney’s office in Tulsa.

So complete was the undercover operation, the ATF even had a video camera installed in Howe’s apartment in Tulsa where she entertained several members of the Aryan Republican Army. On one videotape, White Aryan Resistance leader Tom Metzger of California was even caught visiting the attractive young blonde’s apartment.

In spite of the detailed information and recordings of the radicals, no one seemed to be able to thwart the plan. On Patriot’s Day, 1995, 149 men, women and 19 children perished. Another 500 were injured. Shortly after the bombing, the ATF boosted Howe’s pay and sent her back to Elohim City. There she reported that the residents were preparing for a standoff with the government.

A few tense days later, Howe returned to Tulsa and told her ATF handler, Angela Finley Graham, that a member of the leadership at the camp confirmed the group’s role in the bombing, saying simply, “We have a big secret here.” Howe knew who McVeigh was. She heard his name at the camp many times.

“It was Tuttle this or Tim Tuttle that,” Howe recalled for this newspaper. I even saw him there one time. He was walking along with Andy. He was just one of many skinheads that passed through.”

Howe’s work was terminated though, shortly after she made her report public about the “big secret” at Elohim City.

According to documents in Howe’s ATF file, the FBI then contacted the informant’s supervisors and told them to close their investigation into Elohim City and completely back off.

Later, this newspaper obtained copies of Howe’s (largely) complete file after she began cooperating with the Gazette.

Someone familiar with the ATF’s investigation at Elohim City after the bombing offered an explanation for the FBI’s actions.

“The FBI learned from inside that militia members were coming to Elohim City for a standoff. It was clear we were dealing with some very dangerous people who were capable of anything. We wanted to avoid more bloodshed and that’s why they (ATF) had to be pushed out. If we wanted something from Elohim City, all the FBI had to do was pick up the phone and call Robert (Millar).” That individual went on to say that he remains convinced the ATF would have eventually made the situation far worse had the agency continued to meddle with the OKBOMB case.

“Look at Waco. Just look at Waco,” he repeated.

Shortly after the DOJ learned that Howe had begun giving this newspaper interviews about the plot, she was indicted in Tulsa federal court on conspiracy to make bomb threats and possession of an unregistered destructive device. However, it took the jury only a short time to find her innocent of all charges. A member of that jury told this newspaper they were handed the case at nearly 5 pm on Friday.

“Someone said, ‘I think we all know this girl has been set up by the government and we know she should go free. But why don’t we order dinner from the best BBQ joint in town and eat on the government’s dime one more time?’” Even after Howe was acquitted of the charges, government officials made comments to major media, dismissing Howe as a radical, mentally deranged, or both.

To some extent the tactic has worked, but a former DOJ official said he is more convinced than ever Howe had good information.

Solid in his book

“She’s solid in my book. I’d like to meet her,” he said about Howe and the intelligence she uncovered at Elohim City.

“The FBI knew about Strassmeir. He was reporting to the Germans


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: apmurrah; batf; ci; ci183; clintonscandals; coverup; defenbaugh; doj; elohimcity; fbi; fortier; freeh; howe; jdcash; johndoe2; mcveigh; metzger; millar; murrahbldg; nichols; okbomb; okc; okcbombing; reno; strassmeier; timtuttle; trentadue; tuttle; whitewash
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Just like Bill Clinton to order Janet Reno to micro-manage an FBI investigation in distant Oklahoma City. But it appears things began to unravel because local officials resented being told what to do by Washington D.C. People were requesting transfers and retiring early. It appears many leads were left in boxes sent for storage in other cities.

At some point, the White House must have become concerned about the investigation going out of control. It appears to this observer that high officials may have covered up everything implicating the suspect Strassmeir and his alleged connection to the German government. Then the Justice Department threw the book at Howe, one of their own undercover investigators, for discovering the alleged connection between Strassmeir, Elohim City and McVeigh. That effectively ended any possible inquiry into alleged Neo-Nazi and skinhead links leading back to connections in Germany.

The site of the OKC bombing was where many of the documents regarding Waco were stored. There have been rumors on the Internet about the ATF not showing up for work on the day of the OKC bombing. More rumors about the bombing being enhanced by bombs set inside the building.

Oh, well . . . Not for me to worry. Time to move on people. Lock your doors and windows.

1 posted on 07/15/2005 9:05:53 PM PDT by ex-Texan
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To: ex-Texan
Sunday is the 8th anniversary of the PanAm plane blowing up over NYC. God rest their souls.
2 posted on 07/15/2005 9:07:22 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: ex-Texan

BTTT


3 posted on 07/15/2005 9:11:56 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: ex-Texan

This story lacks the Middle East connection ("The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis, 2004). Why is that?


4 posted on 07/15/2005 9:12:11 PM PDT by enviros_kill
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To: ex-Texan
“I was close to the bombing case immediately,” one former official told the Gazette, “and over time it became clear the White House had taken the investigation away from the FBI and handed it over to officials at the Department of Justice.

Damn the Clintons to hell. Period.

5 posted on 07/15/2005 9:12:42 PM PDT by Prince Charles
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To: enviros_kill

You will have to direct your questions to J.D. Cash and Lt. Col. Roger Charles (U.S.M.C. retired) who wrote the report.


6 posted on 07/15/2005 9:15:50 PM PDT by ex-Texan (Mathew 7:1 through 6)
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I was wondering that too... what of the Middle East connection?


7 posted on 07/15/2005 9:17:52 PM PDT by oolatec
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To: enviros_kill
This story lacks the Middle East connection ("The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis, 2004). Why is that?

Because the author wasn't trying to simply find what people wanted to hear?

8 posted on 07/15/2005 9:19:53 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: ex-Texan

There were three informants at Elohim City. Carol Howe, the owner of the property and even Andrew Strassmeir himself were reported to be in close contact with the feds.

Strassmeir was the son of a German official. I believe he was an ex or possibly even active/on leave or possilbe special ops military member.

One does wonder what the feds relationship with Strassmeir was. I've long suspected that some foreign ops work in the U.S. to circumvent certain domestic laws about what law enforcement officers can do.

I only offer the last comment as a possible reason for cover-up. I can't think of any other.


9 posted on 07/15/2005 9:26:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: ex-Texan

May be true, may not. Without anyone willing to speak under oath and on the record it doesn't go too far.


10 posted on 07/15/2005 9:35:15 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: Strategerist
"‘Never send us anything that points to anyone other than McVeigh and Nichols.’”

Justice in America.

11 posted on 07/15/2005 9:37:17 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: DoughtyOne

Thanks for you very insightful input. Perhaps that explains what may have happened. Strassmeir might have been working for German Military Intel. But why did Janet Reno prosecute Carol Howe, who is apparently getting strong support from many former DOJ and FBI officials? What's up with that, other than political power playing?


13 posted on 07/15/2005 9:39:42 PM PDT by ex-Texan (Mathew 7:1 through 6)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: greekgod4
You are mistaken. I was following these reports coming out of Oklahoma years ago when they happened. This is not left wing propaganda. Back then, Elohim City was at the center of everything. Also, please note the connections between the Jihdists and neo-Nazis. Perhaps the unidentified Arab "third bomber" was making covert contacts with neo-Nazi groups in the U.S.
15 posted on 07/15/2005 9:45:52 PM PDT by ex-Texan (Mathew 7:1 through 6)
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To: Perdogg

Yes, God bless the souls of those who died in the PanAm plane over NY. Yet another coverup.


16 posted on 07/15/2005 9:51:09 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: ex-Texan

Another case of yesterdays conspiracy becoming todays news.


17 posted on 07/15/2005 9:51:28 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( Report every illegal alien that you meet. Call 866-347-2423, Employers use 888-464-4218)
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To: ex-Texan

You have to remember that when the bombing took place, government officials were loathe to admit they had advance warning that one site in Tulsa and two sites in Oklahoma City were likely to be attacked.

Carol Howe desparately sought to get the feds to wake up, and they acted as if there were no concern.

On the Friday before the blast, some people in the Oklahoma City area were warned. One was a judge. Another was a fireman. A friend of the judge called him from Oregon (I believe it was) to ask how his day went. He stated, "I didn't go to work that day." I was told to stay home. (My memory does get a bit fuzzy on this, but suffice it to say that the judge's friend was left scratching his head.)

Howe had been a paid informant for several years. She must have been giving pretty good intel or she would have been terminated. She remained employed for a period after the bombing. Then it became public that Howe had been an information and had told her handlers of the danger.

Suddenly it became quite important to descredit Howe. She wasn't a pristine character. I believe she had a shady past and was ripe for being attacked on character issues.

That was something many of us had to take into account, with her reports. Does she have ulterior motives? I more or less took what she had said with a grain of salt, but over time her comments remained credible.

Their last straw attempt to trash her, was the criminal prosecution. That was a big mistake in my book. In effect they overplayed their hand. Here was someone that remained on their payroll long after the bombing, who by their account was a 'cook' 'criminal' and not credible.

I'd have believed her a lot less, if they had ignored her. I'd have believed her a lot less if they had allowed her to testify at McVeigh's trial. If I remember correctly, they refused to let her testify. I may be wrong about that.


18 posted on 07/15/2005 9:52:49 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: DoughtyOne
A racist german national would be an excellent undercover agent,especially in some fanatical groups.

It sounds plausible.

But damn scary.

A possible consequence of this placement: the agent while acting the role, may have planted the idea of bombing the Murrah building into the heads of those who committed the crime.

Boy that would be a one heck of a reason to a cover up that agents actions.

19 posted on 07/15/2005 10:00:54 PM PDT by highpockets
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To: enviros_kill

I agree. I believe Jayna Davis before I would put stock in this stuff.


20 posted on 07/15/2005 10:01:20 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: greekgod4
this whole report is left wing propaganda. yes, there was a cover up. but clinton engineered that to cover IRAQS involvement as revealed by a few different investigative reporters. all this stuff about white supremacists comes from the lie mill of the southern poverty law center and or their puppets.

I agree that this is bs. Clinton was doing many things to ignore the ME terrorists as opposed to stopping them. He would have jumped at the chance to pin this on some white supremacist group. That would supplement the Clintons' claim of a VRWC plot against them as well as deflect attention from the Arabs.

I think this is total BS.

21 posted on 07/15/2005 10:03:20 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Your memory about Howe is correct. The government refused to let her testify and her evidence of written reports was never presented. Looking at the McVeigh case from a prosecutor's viewpoint, keeping all the wider implications out was a strategic decision. (The old "KISS" rule applies). Evidence about Elohim City, Jihdists and neo-Nazis made the case far too complex. But Clinton and Reno were followed a single political theme to the end: This was a simple case of "right wing extremists" acting out revenge for the Waco debacle.

Only today do the facts present themselves more clearly. As one Prince Charles said above:

"Damn the Clintons to hell. Period."

22 posted on 07/15/2005 10:09:17 PM PDT by ex-Texan (Mathew 7:1 through 6)
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To: ex-Texan
high officials may have covered up everything implicating the suspect Strassmeir and his alleged connection to the German government.

???
Why?

23 posted on 07/15/2005 10:19:45 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Perdogg
Sunday is the 8th anniversary of the PanAm plane blowing up over NYC. God rest their souls.

Pan Am ceased operations 14 years ago.

24 posted on 07/15/2005 10:24:09 PM PDT by SolidSupplySide
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To: Perdogg
Sunday is the 8th anniversary of the PanAm plane blowing up over NYC. God rest their souls.

Close but no cigar.

Sunday is the NINTH anniversary of the TWA plane that was DOWNED BY A MISSILE over Long Island Sound.

9th, not 8th

TWA, not PAN AM

MISSILE ATTACK, Not Explosion

Over The water, not NYC

Other than that your one sentance was absolutely correct...

25 posted on 07/15/2005 10:33:13 PM PDT by Wil H
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To: ex-Texan


26 posted on 07/15/2005 10:57:08 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: ladyinred
Yes, God bless the souls of those who died in the PanAm plane over NY. Yet another coverup.

I'm so tired I can't keep my eyes open. But this is the second time I've heard about a cover-up concerning PanAm. What cover yp?

I hope some of you will leave me a link I can see about a cover up. I'm fairly new tp FR. I wasn't a member when the PamAm flight crashed and all I had to go on was the news on tv.

27 posted on 07/15/2005 11:02:02 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Wil H

MISSILE?????


28 posted on 07/15/2005 11:04:03 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Prince Charles

I just wish one of us freepers could become president, We could release all of this stuff to the public.


29 posted on 07/15/2005 11:08:16 PM PDT by Brimack34
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To: Wil H

This entire scenario was written by Ambrose Evans Pritchard in his 1997 book "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" published by Regnery. I pulled it out and he has a photo of Carol Howe and Andreas Strassmeir plus lots of photocopied docs in his appendices.

Holy cow, am scanning Pritchard's intro and some highlights I'd made all those years ago... spooky.


30 posted on 07/15/2005 11:11:12 PM PDT by Sally
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To: DoughtyOne
"I only offer the last comment as a possible reason for cover-up. I can't think of any other."

How about the fact that the Republicans had just gotten the House giving the Clinton's a resounding defeat to their socialistic platforms.

It was really dealt with relatively quickly... way too fast for the number killed. All wrapped up neat.

McVeigh was a monster but also a loose end that they silenced fairly quickly considering all the questions around the whole event.

Then when questions were starting to come about the possibility of additional bombs in the building... it was dropped the rest of the way park put in.
31 posted on 07/15/2005 11:11:36 PM PDT by JSteff
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To: ex-Texan

What about McVeigh and the Iraqi agents he was seen with?
See "The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis

"‘Never send us anything that points to anyone other than McVeigh and Nichols.’"

Justice in America.

That should read CLINTON JUSTICE IN AMERICA


32 posted on 07/15/2005 11:17:43 PM PDT by Cincinna (BEWARE HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: JSteff

If someone FreepMails me with an email, I will send a couple nice, compact images of Howe & Strassmeir to post.


33 posted on 07/15/2005 11:18:49 PM PDT by Sally
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
I would not be quick to dismiss it as leftist propaganda. People like the neo-Nazis are potentially dangerous even though they are generally not too bright. Islamic terrorists would find them to be ideal useful idiots.

The Clinton Administration was trying to be friendly to the Islamists and it would hurt Clinton's agenda to admit that Islamic terrorists were involved in the OKC bombing. So Clinton had to protect the Islamists which meant he had to cover for the neo-Nazis because neo-Nazis and Islamists worked together on the bombing.

The Clinton Administration cast McVeigh and Nichols as the only ones involved in this crime and it fit the left's agenda to present McVeigh and Nichols as typical gun-owning Christian veteran residents of flyover country. I have no doubt that McVeigh and Nichols are guilty, but asking about their neo-Nazi connections would sooner or later lead to the Islamic terrorist connection to the OKC bombing and that would ruin Clinton's "legacy." This is just my uninformed opinion. Call me paranoid, but if Bill Clinton or Janet Reno stated that 1 + 1 = 2, I would immediately reconsider everything I know about math.

34 posted on 07/15/2005 11:28:50 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell
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To: Wilhelm Tell
but if Bill Clinton or Janet Reno stated that 1 + 1 = 2, I would immediately reconsider everything I know about math.

The Klintoons', a wellsprings of Political Corruption....by far, the most Corrupt Couple in Modern USA History.

35 posted on 07/16/2005 6:37:52 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: ex-Texan

BTTT


36 posted on 07/16/2005 6:40:48 AM PDT by SweetCaroline (Thank You GOD for watching over me.)
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To: ex-Texan
The categories are: "Rove is the Devil", "Brittany's Twins", "Terrorist Panties", "Homosexuals are more normal than you", "A blond disappeared from an island", and "News that the MSM will never cover"

Ok Alex, I'll take "News that the MSM will never cover" for $12,000.
37 posted on 07/16/2005 6:46:17 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: Prince Charles
“I was close to the bombing case immediately,” one former official told the Gazette, “and over time it became clear the White House had taken the investigation away from the FBI and handed it over to officials at the Department of Justice.

OKC made it possible for Clinton to set the stage for tarring all Republicans with the stink of Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Anything that conflicted with that message or watered it down would be surpressed. Clinton was one scary dude.

38 posted on 07/16/2005 7:12:28 AM PDT by GOPJ (Phil Donahue "has made the world safe for emotion masquerading as thought."-BOZELL III)
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To: enviros_kill
This story lacks the Middle East connection ("The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis, 2004). Why is that?

And why is this story so important now?

39 posted on 07/16/2005 8:39:22 AM PDT by syriacus (To WHICH entity does Joe Wilson pledge allegiance?)
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To: pbrown

THE FBI and NTSB suppressed the evidence of 183 eye witnesses from all around Long Island Sound that saw a red streak go up from the surface and then explode at the Aircraft. Some of these witnesses were ex military who instantly recognised what they saw, one, a pilot flying in another commercial plane, is on tape stating his dis-belief as it happened.

These numerous witnesses unknowingly and independently corroborated each others story by providing bearings to where the missile was fired from their various vantage points all arond Long Island Sound, effectively triangulating it's position. None of these people knew eack other so could not have conspired to do this.

Furthermore, the official excuse, an exploding empty tank, is so laughable to be beyond belief. Attempts to recreate the scenario in controlled conditions over at a facility in England failed miserably, and they could only create an exploding tank by introducing and igniting large quantities of incendiary material to promote combustion. The tank could not be exploded by electrical spark, of any size or temperature, alone.

This is a good thing in many ways since if the official excuse was true we would, no doubt, have lost many 747's to this problem in the last 35 years instead of this one supposed isolated incident.

If you are unaware of all this you should go to www.twa800.com and particularly http://twa800.com/images/triangulation_update.pdf


40 posted on 07/16/2005 9:08:37 AM PDT by Wil H
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To: JSteff

That's true.


41 posted on 07/16/2005 9:28:23 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Brimack34
I just wish one of us freepers could become president, We could release all of this stuff to the public.

I doubt we'd live long enough to pick up the phone, in that eventuality.

42 posted on 07/16/2005 9:38:26 AM PDT by Prince Charles
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To: Sally
This entire scenario was written by Ambrose Evans Pritchard in his 1997 book "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" published by Regnery. I pulled it out and he has a photo of Carol Howe and Andreas Strassmeir plus lots of photocopied docs in his appendices.

Bingo. There's something to be said for having "institutional memory" around here. ;-)

Cheers

43 posted on 07/16/2005 9:40:03 AM PDT by Prince Charles
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To: GOPJ
The Murrah building bomb was The Bomb That Re-Elected Bill Clinton. That's the foundation of the story.
44 posted on 07/16/2005 9:43:24 AM PDT by Prince Charles
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To: pbrown

Do a FR search on keyword TWA800.


45 posted on 07/16/2005 9:44:34 AM PDT by Prince Charles
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To: DoughtyOne
There were three informants at Elohim City. Carol Howe, the owner of the property and even Andrew Strassmeir himself were reported to be in close contact with the feds.
No connection with McVeigh.

"Show me your phone records."

They don't exist ...

46 posted on 07/16/2005 3:45:39 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: ex-Texan
Just like Bill Clinton to order Janet Reno to ...
There is no there 'there' on this issue; not one piece of TANGIBLE evidence, just a LOT of re-hashed michael redvero level-'stuff' that finds life at LP, LF and DU.

And now it looks like a NEW generation that hasn't the discipline to read the court transcripts of McVeigh's book has 'renewed' interest ONLY because conspiracy theories are EASY to believe if you don't know about the actual facts that exist ...

47 posted on 07/16/2005 3:50:11 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: greekgod4
"tis whole report is left wing propaganda."

It's more insidious than that, it not only blames the domestic Right for a crime made by lefties, but it deliberately omits the Middle Eastern connection (e.g. Nichol's Phillipino wife, Abu Sayyef, etc.).

48 posted on 07/16/2005 3:55:10 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Prince Charles; pbrown
Do a FR search on keyword TWA800.
While you're at it, do a search for aged airframes, chafed wiring and "forward outward-opening cargo bay door".

THEN read the NTSB report and wonder aloud why a NUMBER of PILOTS that night in that 'flight lane' that night didn't report seeing a MISSILE ...

49 posted on 07/16/2005 3:56:18 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: Wil H
THE FBI and NTSB suppressed the evidence of 183 eye witnesses from all around Long Island Sound
Yeah, and what did the other pilots ahead/behind TWA800 say about things they saw that night?

What - no time to do the research (BUT you had the time to post this oft repreated 'saw')?

Here, here's the gist of it:

Pilot witnesses

Most of the airborne witnesses were pilots and experienced observers of aircraft. Consequently, they are believed to be especially trained, qualified, and credible observers. These observers can be especially useful because their statements to air traffic controllers are often recorded, and because radar data can be used to determine their position and altitude at a given time.

The captain of Eastwind flight 507 told the witness group that he had observed a "pretty bright landing light" and that he watched it "on and off for over two minutes, minimum, but I probably had seen him [the light] for over five minutes." (From page 19 of the interview transcript, which appears as Appendix Z to the Witness Group Chairman?s Factual Report).

The captain of Eastwind flight 507 was not the only airborne witness to report seeing what he described as landing lights.

Document CC3-416 notes that Witness 702, who was operating a general aviation airplane reported that he "spotted a white light which suddenly exploded into a giant red orange ball."33

However, at 0042:11, Witness 702 (or another person aboard the same aircraft) advised air traffic control, "we saw landing lights facing us and all of a sudden it turned into a bright orange flame"


50 posted on 07/16/2005 4:01:21 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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