Gen. Westmoreland, Who Led U.S. in Vietnam, Dies

NY Times ^ | July 19, 2005 | ERIC PACE

[neverdem]

Gen. William C. Westmoreland, who commanded the United States forces in Vietnam from 1964 to 1968, overseeing the vast troop buildup and the height of the fighting, died last night in a retirement home in Charleston, S.C., his son, James Ripley Westmoreland, announced. The general was 91.

Westy, as he became known while a West Point cadet, was driving and combative - in World War II, leading a fast-moving artillery battalion; in Vietnam, directing "search and destroy" missions meant to decimate the enemy; in retirement, suing CBS for a television documentary that he said had defamed him.

The libel suit, which he brought to trial in 1984 but dropped early in 1985, revived long-standing controversy about him. Over the years, he was widely criticized, inside and outside the armed forces, for his prime role in the conduct of the Vietnam War. One of his deputies in Vietnam, Gen. Bruce Palmer Jr., who rose to be vice chief of staff of the Army, later called the war "the first clear failure" in American military history.

But in his memoirs, General Westmoreland blamed the outcome on the South Vietnamese Army and on President Johnson's refusal to broaden the war into Laos, Cambodia and North Vietnam. The general contended that in Vietnam the American forces' record of "achievements was remarkable: the mammoth logistical buildup, various tactical expedients and innovations, the advisory effort, civic action programs."

"But perhaps most impressive of all," he wrote, was "the accomplishment for the first time in military history of a true air mobility on the battlefield."

Over the years, other highly placed officers and officials praised the logistical effort but argued that under General Westmoreland's command, war-of-attrition tactics failed, and that emphasis on military operations carried out by American forces damaged the South Vietnamese Army psychologically.

[neverdem]

Once we allowed the commies free reign in Cambodia and Laos, attrition was probably the only strategy left, IMHO. LBJ basically followed that course to obtain RINO support for his domestic agenda. Check out Michael Beschloss' second volume on the LBJ tapes is called Reaching for Glory: The Secret Lyndon Johnson Tapes, 1964-1965. I heard Beschloss and the tapes on C-Span. The following review is accurate. From behind the scenes, you will hear Johnson pulling the strings of his presidential campaign against Barry Goldwater and pursuing his feud with the new senator Robert Kennedy. He agonizes over Martin Luther King, Jr., and the bloody march on Selma, Alabama, and twists arms on Capitol Hill to pass voting rights, Medicare, and more basic laws than any American president before or since. Above all, you will hear him sending young Americans off to Vietnam while privately insisting that the war can never be won.

LBJ was truly evil.

Associated Press
William C. Westmoreland at an outpost in Vietnam in May 1964.

Associated Press
Gen. William Westmoreland in Saigon in June of 1964.

Associated Press
Gen. William C. Westmoreland in Da Nang, Vietnam, in 1965

[neverdem]

Ping for the Times front page obit, FWIW.

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/pageone/scan/index.html

[F14 Pilot]

bump!

[John Filson]

Yet Vietnam veterans are more patriotic than any other generation. You can't destroy the spirit of the American fighting man. If LBJ couldn't, no one can.

[rlmorel]

The man had a tough job, fighting the war with one hand behind his back.

May he find some peace at last.

[in hoc signo vinces]

Old soldiers never truly die...

Considering his hands were tied politically...he did the best he could in Vietnam. The politicians let him down, and CBS and their ilk scapegoated him.

It's hard to get an accurate picture about the man, at least from stories written by the media of the period (yeah, they're real believable) but there's a little green DOD issued book of analysis on Vietnam written by the General. It's a good window into his mind.

RIP General.

[adorno]

died last night in a retirement home

I find it hard to believe that a leader of his stature would live out his final days/years at a retirement home.

If that had been my dad, he would've been with me at my home, even if hired help had to take care of him.

[Reagan79]

I'm not saying you do not have point, but some of those retirement estates are top notch luxury facilities.

[in hoc signo vinces]

Truth is...he was probably surrounded by a lot of Vets his age...he probably enjoyed it.

[Mgm3com]

His hand's where tied political alright. LBJ was not only a terrible President he was an even worst Commander-in-Chief.

LBJ and Secitary of Defense where trying to micromanage the war from Washington, they would not let the field commanders do there job.

Every day Washington would tell them to bomb or raid the same place over and over again at the same time, even though the field commanders told them that the enemy knew their position and attacked them, the clowns in Washington would not listen and ran off every night in a tuxedo to a cocktail party while our boys died.

In my view we lost that war because Johnson was a terrible a wartime Commander and the liberal media helped to destroy the moral for many Americans back at home.

[Mgm3com]

His hand's where tied political alright. LBJ was not only a terrible President he was an even worst Commander-in-Chief.

LBJ and Secitary of Defense where trying to micromanage the war from Washington, they would not let the field commanders do there job.

Every day Washington would tell them to bomb or raid the same place over and over again at the same time, even though the field commanders told them that the enemy knew their position and attacked them, the clowns in Washington would not listen and ran off every night in a tuxedo to a cocktail party while our boys died.

In my view we lost that war because Johnson was a terrible a wartime Commander and the liberal media helped to destroy the moral for many Americans back at home.

[MichaelP]

Gen Westmoreland was a great man. He addressed the 101st abn div, which he previously commanded, in 1972. I was there and he was inspiring. He was one of our most capable combat commanders. He deserved better than having to take orders from LBJ and McNamara. Dejavu (sp?) MacArthur/Truman...

Mike

[elbucko]

Above all, you will hear him [LBJ] sending young Americans off to Vietnam while privately insisting that the war can never be won.

LBJ never intended to "win" Vietnam in 1964. He only intended that Saigon not fall to the communists before 1968 and LBJ's reelection to a second term. Lyndon wasn't fighting communism in Vietnam, he was fighting Republicans in Wash DC with American troops in So. E. Asia.

When all is said and done, the fate of Vietnam falls squarely on a grave in a cemetery in Johnson City, Texas. Lyndon Johnson killed a lot of Vietnamese, Americans, a few of my friends and tried to kill me for his political ambitions. Many of us need to meet someday, in that cemetery in Johnson City, Texas, drink beer and toast to our buddies until our bladders need relief. And then relieve ourselves on "Landslide" Lyndons resting place.

[kimoajax]

You said it Bro. Bring Pee

[Continental Soldier]

I agree that LBJ, his gang of losers, and the American press made victory in Viet Nam impossible, but General Westmoreland cooperated with cowards and fools at the expense of America and at the loss of too many good American men. I feel no sympathy in his passing. Period.

[brushcop]

I live just 38 short miles from that site, do you need a guide? I believe post #11 covers succinctly what Gen. Westmoreland was having to deal with. Those of us that were adults that had served, were serving or at least astute observers at the time could see the micromanaging by that administration, again, do you need a guide?

[elbucko]

You said it Bro. Bring Pee

Bring beer, then as night follows day, thou mayest whiz on the traitors grave.

[dennisw]

Rest in peace General Westmoreland.

[elbucko]

..again, do you need a guide?

No, but I thank you for the courtesy of the offer. I rode by on my scooter in 1975, 2 years after the rotten SOB's deserved death. I didn't have to go then.

I realize one shouldn't be so bitter after so long, but LBJ taught the North the pain of loosing to a lost cause and I was also a Goldwater man. What LBJ did to our country lives on in the press' accusations of "Vietnam" regarding any time we put our troops in peril. However, were Lyndon to rise, Dracula-like from the grave, the press would implore him to run for president and resolve Iraq.

"Oh when will they ever learn".

[neverdem]

LBJ never intended to "win" Vietnam in 1964.

That's correct in the sense that LBJ hoped for the "status quo ante", much like the armistice in Korea. He hoped to parlay with the commies, even bribe them with development aid if necessary.

I agree that LBJ, his gang of losers, and the American press made victory in Viet Nam impossible, but General Westmoreland cooperated with cowards and fools at the expense of America and at the loss of too many good American men. I feel no sympathy in his passing. Period.

About the only alternative Westmoreland had was to resign. Evil LBJ and his presumptuous lackeys would have remained with a different commander in Vietnam.

[Happy2BMe]

General Westmoreland ping.

[neverdem]

Ping to a pretty decent obit, twenty comments and no complaints about the NY Times!

[elbucko]

About the only alternative Westmoreland had was to resign

I agree. I can't fault General Westmoreland. He's as much a victim of Vietnam as some others who made it back home alive. He's a tragic figure like Robt. E. Lee. It was Gen. Creighton Abrams that replaced W'm'land and I don't have much to say about him except he was Westmoreland's deputy commander. He either didn't know what was going on, or did, and kept quiet. The Army named a tank after him.

The real pang is the press. They wanted LBJ and they supported the war in the beginning that would keep him in office, but they waited until Nixon was in office to stab the country in the back. If pissing on LBJ's grave isn't payback for the Democrats, the press and Vietnam, than maybe FreeRepublic is.

[Terpfen]

Nah, MacArthur goofed up Korea on his own.

[MichaelP]

Nah, MacArthur goofed up Korea on his own.

Well, he defied the President with his grousing, however, he was right in that China had to be engaged. They were providing logistics, support and money to NK. How could you prosecute the war otherwise?

Mike

[Terpfen]

He was right about engaging China, but I was talking about his running of the actual war, rather than his attempt to influence the politics behind it.

Example: preparing for the landing at Inchon subtracted needed men and supplies from Eighth Army at Pusan when they needed them the most. By the time the Inchon operation was carried out, Walker had won at Pusan, making Inchon completely needless.

Korea was not MacArthur's best moment, however right he may have been about engaging the Chinese.

[MichaelP]

How can you say that the Inchon landing subtracted men from the Pusan perimeter? It was under great peril of falling! It WAS the Inchon invasion that saved Pusan and broke the supply line of the NKs. Without it, the seige would have continued and necessitated a direct assault upon the enemy. US troops were beaten down and in no shape to satge an assault. Inchon was brilliant, maybe MacArthur's greatest tactical move. His failure was not seeing Red China's intervention. And that was because he thought that they wouldn't test american nuclear supremacy. He thought he had that weapon....

Mike

[Terpfen]

How can you say that the Inchon landing subtracted men from the Pusan perimeter? It was under great peril of falling!

It was under great peril of falling because MacArthur denied reinforcements to Eighth Army. Period. Had MacArthur reinforced Pusan, Walker could have broken out and rapidly pushed north. The North Koreans were already out of supplies: that's one reason Pusan didn't fall despite Inchon. Inchon was the result of glory-seeking generalship: Pusan was the result of brilliant generalship.

[brushcop]

Well said, and in the vernacular of LBJ, "Veet-naam". I don't know why they have memorialized that man around here so much.

Now Lady Bird is still seen in Fredericksburg, she is always polite and has quite a following. She is interrupted at meals when eating in public places and always politely takes time to talk with folks.

Then there was the personality of LBJ, well, we know how he was...

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.


1st CAV's 1st Days in Vietnam-1965

(Paramount Pictures website)
http://www.WeWereSoldiers.com

(Photos)
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm


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[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

If we Vietnam Vets had had http://www.Freerepublic.com available to us for combating the Media Lies of those who are still trying to confuse Americans today in a new time of war with our own Freedom at stake right here at home...

...Vietnam would still be Free today..!!!


Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer
Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965

http://www.lzxray.com

.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

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AP: William Westmoreland dead

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1445704/posts


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[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

After the FALL came:


Pictures of a vietnamese Re-Education Camp

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts

.

[John Filson]

There's a special quality to 'nam vets. They're prepared for what's ahead.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

The Freedom-Loving spirit of Vietnamese-Americans, who have already lost their's once,

is now THE Example for the rest of us to follow...

in a new Time of War
in a new Century
with an enemy that's now
just around the corner and
up your street.

.

[FryingPan101]

RIP, General Westmoreland. My Dad served under you at Fort Campbell (Geronimo!) My husband served under you in Vietnam. Say hello to my Dad, Sir.

[elbucko]

"If we Vietnam Vets had had http://www.Freerepublic.com available to us for combating the Media Lies.........Vietnam would still be Free today..!!!

I agree "AR". If America wins the war against Muslim fanatics, then in 25 to 50 years or so, prosperous and free Vietnamese, visiting the USA from Vietnam, will take their time to make a pilgrimage to The Wall in DC, place flowers before it and bow respectfully. The Vietnam Vets sacrifice, in the end, will be consecrated by an enemy that has been enlightened by freedom.

Buck.

[neverdem]

This was a suprisingly good obituary from the NY Times. The frontpage sidebar moderator kept it in the sidebar for over a day. When I last looked, it was third from the end. It might still be there.

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

[brushcop]

Those photos should be posted often, much like Tonkin's litany of crimes and misdemeanors by the likes of Kerry et al. Repetition, repetition, it works.

[A Jovial Cad]

Your analysis is quite correct. Ignore the Tom Clancy-wannabees.

[octobersky]

Considering the source, it was a pretty good obit. R.I.P. General Westmoreland. As always, thanks for the ping, neverdem.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

Thanks for spreading the word, brushcop.

GARRY OWEN, Sir
(7th Cavalry Salute)

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[brushcop]

Ronnie,

How well I know "Garry Owen", my son served with the 1st CAV (2/7) almost five years, then with the 2nd ID, now in Iraq w/3rd ID 2/69. That big ol' patch is right next to his photo. We often joke about how long it will take to serve in each division in numerical order...

[Bar-Face]

Gen. William C. Westmoreland may not have been agreat general, but he was a very good general. Gen. William C. Westmoreland as a professional soldier just followed the rules. And the rules say the military will be under civilian command. His Commander-in-Chief did not let Westmoreland win. lynden baines johnson and the "whiz kid" Robert McNamara called all the shots in Vietnam. In my not so humble opinion, both should have been shot as war criminals. They and the left lost Vietnam. The American military NEVER lost a battle but the war was lost because of the traitors here at home.
The sad part is, I see it happening again in Iraq.