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Larry Johnson's Group (VIPS) Called On CIA Employees To Leak Secrets To Hurt Bush
Associated Press ^ | March 17, 2003 | Unknown

Posted on 07/25/2005 10:03:04 PM PDT by Sam Hill

Ex-CIA Accuse Bush of Manipulating Iraq Evidence

Monday, March 17, 2003

WASHINGTON — Invoking

the name of a Pentagon whistle-blower, a small group of retired, anti-war CIA officers are accusing the Bush administration of manipulating evidence against Iraq in order to push war while burying evidence that could show Iraq's compliance with U.N demands for disarmament.

The 25-member group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, composed mostly of former CIA analysts along with a few operational agents, is urging employees inside the intelligence agency to break the law and leak any information they have that could show the Bush administration is engineering the release of evidence to match its penchant for war.

VIPS member Ray McGovern, a 27-year CIA veteran who gave intelligence briefings to top Reagan officials before retiring in 1990, said the administration has not made the case that Iraq has ties to Al Qaeda and is providing information that does not meet an intelligence professional's standard of proof.

"It's been cooked to a recipe, and the recipe is high policy," McGovern said. "That's why a lot of my former colleagues are holding their noses these days."

But the CIA said McGovern doesn't have any authority to speak of the quality of intelligence policy-makers are reviewing.

"He left the agency over a decade ago," spokesman Mark Mansfield said. "He's hardly in a position to comment knowledgeably on that subject."

VIPS say their appeals to CIA staff are an attempt to evoke another Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, a top-secret study on U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

Leaking classified national defense information is illegal, and CIA officers, who take a secrecy oath when they join could lose their security clearances or jobs, and may even face prosecution...

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; antiamericanmovement; antiwarmovement; bushhaters; cialeak; conspiracy; coup; danielellsberg; ellsberg; fifthcolumn; larrycjohnson; larryjohnson; mcgovern; pentagonpapers; proterrorist; raymcgovern; sedition; traitors; treason; unamerica; vips
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Larry C. Johnson is a member of VIPS.

Ray McGovern, who runs the group was also one of the signers of Larry Johnson's letter to Congress demanding punishment of the Plame leakers.

Many of the signers of that letter are VIPS members.

1 posted on 07/25/2005 10:03:04 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

Sam this is an excellent find.


2 posted on 07/25/2005 10:05:36 PM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: Sam Hill

Well, I hope the Justice Department works up a worthy response to something like this taking place. If a conspiracy can be proven, perhaps McGovern could go along for the ride to prison.


3 posted on 07/25/2005 10:05:38 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: the Real fifi

I meant to put this in the first comment, this was noted by Wendy44 on this thread:

Joseph Wilson, The UN, and Iraq's WMDs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1450486/posts?page=13#13

So she really gets the credit for the find. I just thought it warranted its own thread.


4 posted on 07/25/2005 10:07:22 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill
But the CIA said McGovern doesn't have any authority to speak of the quality of intelligence policy-makers are reviewing. "He left the agency over a decade ago," spokesman Mark Mansfield said. "He's hardly in a position to comment knowledgeably on that subject."

That pretty much destroys his credibility!

5 posted on 07/25/2005 10:08:12 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: DoughtyOne

It sounds like they are attempting a bloodless coup. It's time to start arresting traitors.


6 posted on 07/25/2005 10:08:26 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Howlin; Nick Danger

fyi


7 posted on 07/25/2005 10:09:17 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: pbrown

Sorry, were attempting...or is the plan still in action? Sounds alot like what's happening now.


8 posted on 07/25/2005 10:09:50 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: All

Since this is actually an AP story, I think I'll go ahead and post the rest of it:

"...On top of that, the culture of the CIA is very introverted -- disputes stay inside the agency and intelligence officers rarely discuss policy, adopting the attitude that their job is to gather and dispense information, not decide how to act on it.

"Our role is to call it like we see it, to provide objective, unvarnished assessments. That's the code we live by, and that's what policy-makers expect from us," Mansfield said.

But McGovern, who now works in an inner-city outreach ministry in Washington, said officials who blow the whistle would be performing a higher service.

"It goes against the whole ethic of secrecy and going through channels, and going to the [inspector general]. It takes a courageous person to get by all that, and say, 'I've got a higher duty,'" he said.

Administration officials insist that the data being reviewed and dispensed is of the highest quality, and point to the materials handed out to the United Nations by Secretary of State Colin Powell.

"These are not assertions. What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence," Powell said at the presentation.

But McGovern and others in this group say it's no secret that the material leaked to members of Congress or administration officials frequently is one-sided and gives a narrow picture of the entire outlook.

The group said officials who act as would-be whistle-blowers can use the same method as those now handing out information -- giving it over to members of Congress who can both protect them and show the entire picture.

"They have to basically put conscience before career," said Patrick Eddington, a VIPS member and former CIA agent who resigned in 1996 to protest what he describes as the agency's refusal to investigate some of the possible causes of Gulf War veterans' medical problems.

Vince Cannistraro, a former CIA counterterrorism chief, said he saw little chance of CIA analysts going public to contradict the Bush administration.

"Sure, there's a lot of disagreement among analysts in the intelligence community on how things are going to be used [by policy-makers]," he said. "But you are not going to see people making public resignations. That would mean giving up your career."


9 posted on 07/25/2005 10:10:01 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: pbrown

If these former agents are at all representative, we've got a serious problem.

A little review of their past activity might not be a bad idea.


10 posted on 07/25/2005 10:10:25 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Wendy44

FYI.


11 posted on 07/25/2005 10:11:31 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Sam Hill
Here's some of Larry Johnson's INTELLIGENCE:

The Declining Threat of Terrorism, The New York Times, July 10, 2001

Check the DATE!!!!

12 posted on 07/25/2005 10:13:06 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: LibFreeOrDie

You think?

For a much more recent example, check out #12.


13 posted on 07/25/2005 10:13:57 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: pbrown; ravingnutter
You think?

Read this AND the sources:

To: FlingWingFlyer
I wonder if it was President Bush's decision to clean up the CIA that caused these people to become "Ex-CIA officers" and "former" CIA officers.

Yes and it also caused them to concoct this whole scheme to take the President down.

If Joe diGenova is right, and I suspect he is, the federal investigation into the disclosure of the identity of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame should never have happened.

“My views are stronger than ever,” the former U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia said Monday when asked about the white-hot controversy that has sent a New York Times reporter to jail, changed the rules of investigative journalism and now threatens to envelop the White House in a major crisis. “This investigation never should have started because it’s apparent that no crime was ever committed.” “The only way an investigation can begin is if the agency swears — swears — that it took every conceivable step to protect this person’s identity.”

For example, the CIA had to answer 11 specific questions about what steps it took to protect the identity of a covert agent. But diGenova questions whether some of the information the CIA provided the Justice Department on those 11 questions “was materially false.”

In addition, he pointed out that the CIA paid for Wilson’s trip, didn’t ask him to sign a confidentiality agreement, didn’t object to his writing the op-ed article in the Times and allowed him to conduct TV interviews and to appear in a photo with his wife in Vanity Fair, he noted.

“The CIA isn’t stupid,” he said. “They wanted this story out. I’m raising the question: Did the CIA mislead Fitzgerald?”

The Hill

Hold on to your hat. The plot is about to thicken.

Behind the scenes, the single most important reason for the Valerie Plame/Joe Wilson farce is that CIA Director Porter Goss has finally started to clean house at Langley. Goss's long-overdue shake-up is clearly backed by the White House, the top levels of the Pentagon and State Department, and the new National Director of Intelligence, John Negroponte.

Judging by Director Goss's remarks at his Senate confirmation hearings, those whose jobs are most in danger include the CIA "experts" in WMD proliferation – Valerie Plame's outfit – who completely failed to anticipate the Indian and Pakistani nukes, and just couldn't figure out what was going on with Iraqi WMDs. Valerie Plame's bosses are facing the axe for decades of failures.

And it's about time, because Iran is within sight of its first nukes. You don't suppose that has anything to do with the Plame/Wilson publicity stunt, do you?

The farcical Plame/Wilson assault on Karl Rove is a shot across the bow of the White House. The spook bureaucracy is fighting for its perks, hand-in-hand with the Democrats and the media. This is exactly the same iron triangle that destroyed Richard Nixon. [My comment: Hence all the sudden media hype about Watergate]

Valerie Plame's CIA bosses took care not to ask Mr. Wilson to sign a confidentiality agreement, routine in such cases, almost as if they wanted him to make a public fuss. They were not surprised, one might think, when Mr. Wilson promptly took his story to New York Times Op-Ed Editor Gail Collins, one of the great Bush-haters of all time.

The farcical "outing" of Valerie Plame therefore raises a genuinely frightening monster from the swamp: A subversive alliance between the intelligence bureaucracy, the Democratic Party and the media. The common thread among all the characters in this low-brow comedy is hatred of President Bush and American power. Joe Wilson's eyebrows go ballistic when he talks about the White House. Just watch him sometime.

It was a publicity stunt from the get-go. Wilson's "confidential trip" to Niger gave him the superficial credentials to publish his "expose" in the Times. He'd gone there, talked to the top officials face to face, and by gum, they told him it was all a lie! Not even Gail Collins could possibly believe this banana sauce, but Wilson's charges provided a useful stick with which to beat the White House.

American Thinker

According to Goss' supporters, the agency has been out of control, recently leaking negative stories to the press to undermine the White House.

"The CIA has got to be kept out of partisan politics," said Stansfield Turner, who was CIA director under President Carter. "And it appears that they were leaking information to influence the election. Porter Goss has now got a difficult problem."

ABC News

Even the moonbats got that part right:

Why did DCI George Tenet suddenly resign on June 3rd, only to be followed a day later by James Pavitt, the CIA's Deputy Director of Operations (DDO)?

The real reasons, contrary to the saturation spin being put out by major news outlets, have nothing to do with Tenet's role as taking the fall for alleged 9/11 and Iraqi intelligence “failures” before the upcoming presidential election.

Both resignations, perhaps soon to be followed by resignations from Colin Powell and his deputy Richard Armitage, are about the imminent and extremely messy demise of George W. Bush and his Neocon administration in a coup d'etat being executed by the Central Intelligence Agency. The coup, in the planning for at least two years, has apparently become an urgent priority as a number of deepening crises threaten a global meltdown. Shortly after the “surprise” Tenet-Pavitt resignations, current and former senior members of the U.S. intelligence community and the Justice Department told journalist Wayne Madsen, a former Naval intelligence officer, that they were directly connected to the criminal investigation of a 2003 White House leak that openly exposed Valerie Plame as an undercover CIA officer.

Seymour Hersh dropped a major bombshell that went virtually unnoticed, 54 paragraphs deep into an October 27, 2003 story for the New Yorker titled “The Stovepipe.”

“Who produced the fake Niger papers? There is nothing approaching a consensus on this question within the intelligence community. There has been published speculation about the intelligence services of several different countries. One theory, favored by some journalists in Rome, is that [the Italian intelligence service] Sismi produced the false documents and passed them to Panorama for publication.

“Another explanation was provided by a former senior C.I.A. officer. He had begun talking to me about the Niger papers in March, when I first wrote about the forgery, and said, 'Somebody deliberately let something false get in there.'

He became more forthcoming in subsequent months, eventually saying that a small group of disgruntled retired C.I.A. clandestine operators had banded together in the late summer of last year and drafted the fraudulent documents themselves.”

Source

Another explanation was provided by a former senior C.I.A. officer. He had begun talking to me about the Niger papers in March, when I first wrote about the forgery, and said, “Somebody deliberately let something false get in there.” He became more forthcoming in subsequent months, eventually saying that a small group of disgruntled retired C.I.A. clandestine operators had banded together in the late summer of last year and drafted the fraudulent documents themselves.

“The agency guys were so pissed at Cheney,” the former officer said. “They said, ‘O.K, we’re going to put the bite on these guys.’ ” My source said that he was first told of the fabrication late last year, at one of the many holiday gatherings in the Washington area of past and present C.I.A. officials. “Everyone was bragging about it—‘Here’s what we did. It was cool, cool, cool.’ ” These retirees, he said, had superb contacts among current officers in the agency and were informed in detail of the sismi intelligence.

“They thought that, with this crowd, it was the only way to go—to nail these guys who were not practicing good tradecraft and vetting intelligence,” my source said. “They thought it’d be bought at lower levels—a big bluff.” The thinking, he said, was that the documents would be endorsed by Iraq hawks at the top of the Bush Administration, who would be unable to resist flaunting them at a press conference or an interagency government meeting. They would then look foolish when intelligence officials pointed out that they were obvious fakes. But the tactic backfired, he said, when the papers won widespread acceptance within the Administration. “It got out of control.”

Like all large institutions, C.I.A. headquarters, in Langley, Virginia, is full of water-cooler gossip, and a retired clandestine officer told me this summer that the story about a former operations officer faking the documents is making the rounds. “What’s telling,” he added, “is that the story, whether it’s true or not, is believed”—an extraordinary commentary on the level of mistrust, bitterness, and demoralization within the C.I.A. under the Bush Administration. (William Harlow, the C.I.A. spokesman, said that the agency had no more evidence that former members of the C.I.A. had forged the documents “than we have that they were forged by Mr. Hersh.”)

The F.B.I. has been investigating the forgery at the request of the Senate Intelligence Committee. A senior F.B.I. official told me that the possibility that the documents were falsified by someone inside the American intelligence community had not been ruled out. “This story could go several directions,” he said. “We haven’t gotten anything solid, and we’ve looked.” He said that the F.B.I. agents assigned to the case are putting a great deal of effort into the investigation. But “somebody’s hiding something, and they’re hiding it pretty well.”

New Yorker


40 posted on 07/22/2005 5:28:39 PM EDT by ravingnutter

14 posted on 07/25/2005 10:15:35 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin

CIA Agents Letter to US Senate and House

18 July 2005

AN OPEN STATEMENT TO THE LEADERS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE.

The Honorable Dennis Hastert, Speaker, U.S. House of Representatives

The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives

The Honorable Dr. William Frist, Majority Leader of the Senate

The Honorable Harry Reid, Minority Leader of the Senate


We, the undersigned former U.S. intelligence officers are concerned with the tone and substance of the public debate over the ongoing Department of Justice investigation into who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, to syndicated columnist Robert Novak and other members of the media, which exposed her status as an undercover CIA officer. The disclosure of Ms. Plame’s name was a shameful event in American history and, in our professional judgment, may have damaged U.S. national security and poses a threat to the ability of U.S. intelligence gathering using human sources. Any breach of the code of confidentiality and cover weakens the overall fabric of intelligence, and, directly or indirectly, jeopardizes the work and safety of intelligence workers and their sources...

[Mendacious crap mercifully snipped]

...Our friends and colleagues have difficult jobs gathering the intelligence, which helps, for example, to prevent terrorist attacks against Americans at home and abroad. They sometimes face great personal risk and must spend long hours away from family and friends. They serve because they love this country and are committed to protecting it from threats from abroad and to defending the principles of liberty and freedom. They do not expect public acknowledgement for their work, but they do expect and deserve their government’s protection of their covert status.

For the good of our country, we ask you to please stand up for every man and woman who works for the U.S. intelligence community and help protect their ability to live their cover.

Sincerely yours,

_____________________________________

Larry C. Johnson, former Analyst, CIA

JOINED BY:

Mr. Brent Cavan, former Analyst, CIA

Mr. Vince Cannistraro, former Case Officer, CIA

Mr. Michael Grimaldi, former Analyst, CIA

Mr. Mel Goodman, former senior Analyst, CIA

Col. W. Patrick Lang (US Army retired), former Director, Defense Humint Services, DIA

Mr. David MacMichael, former senior estimates officer, National Intelligence Council, CIA

Mr. James Marcinkowski, former Case Officer, CIA

Mr. Ray McGovern, former senior Analyst and PDB Briefer, CIA

Mr. Jim Smith, former Case Officer, CIA

Mr. William C. Wagner, former Case Officer, CIA




I would bet everyone on that list is a member of VIPS.


15 posted on 07/25/2005 10:16:02 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

I think these guys are scared to death of Porter Goss.


16 posted on 07/25/2005 10:16:33 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Sam Hill
I wonder if this adds to the theory that Fitzgerald may in fact be investigating this angle in his investigation.

If he's not, I have zero confidence Porter Goss or Bush, both of whom I really like, aren't going to touch it. But this is really alarming.

17 posted on 07/25/2005 10:18:45 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Dean won't call UBL guilty without a trial, but thinks DeLay and Rove should be in jail)
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To: DoughtyOne
And guess who they've thrown their lot in with?

John Conyers!

They can be seen in action HERE and HERE in these fake "hearings" Conyers has been having.

18 posted on 07/25/2005 10:19:17 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Sam Hill
Leaking classified national defense information is illegal, and CIA officers, who take a secrecy oath when they join could lose their security clearances or jobs, and may even face prosecution...
==================================================

Can't we hang these guys?

19 posted on 07/25/2005 10:19:24 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
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To: Sam Hill

I sure wouldn't take that bet.

You know they are.


20 posted on 07/25/2005 10:20:56 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: doug from upland



Sure we can.


21 posted on 07/25/2005 10:21:00 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS)) Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: DoughtyOne

We discussed ol' Lar on the Sunday Talk Show thread yesterday. I did a little research on the web.
Did you know that Larry and Valerie went to CIA school together? I thought that was an interesting little tidbit.

Here's the thread (post #261 if you want to see the links to Larry.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1449417/posts?page=295#261


22 posted on 07/25/2005 10:21:32 PM PDT by Seattle Conservative (God Bless and protect our troops and their CIC)
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To: onyx

My tree or yours?


23 posted on 07/25/2005 10:22:00 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
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To: Darkwolf377

Alarming?

I couldn't sleep the other night after I read this ONE post:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1450548/posts?page=14#14


24 posted on 07/25/2005 10:22:01 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: All
From the WSJ Opinion Journal
BEST OF THE WEB

BY JAMES TARANTO
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:22 p.m. EDT

'Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity'
Give Nicholas Kristof credit for being slightly ahead of his time. The New York Times columnist has been beating the drum for more than a month now about purportedly "politicized" intelligence on Iraq, and now the entire percussion section has joined in. And unlike fellow Times columnist and former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, who is a fount of pure partisan rage, Kristof at least seems to have a reasonable, high-minded argument. Here's how he put it in his May 30 column (the link is from the next day's Paris edition of the Times):

[Intelligence professionals] are coming forward because they are fiercely proud of the deepest ethic in the intelligence world--that intelligence should be nonpolitical--and are disgusted at efforts to turn them into propagandists. . . .

The atmosphere within the intelligence community is so poisonous, and the stakes are so high--for the credibility of America's word and the soundness of information on which American foreign policy is based--that an outside examination is essential.

In that column, Kristof introduced the world to a group that styles itself Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. This outfit made another appearance in yesterday's column:

Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, a group of retired spies, issued an open letter to Bush Monday reflecting the view of many in the intelligence community that the central culprit is Vice President Dick Cheney. The open letter called for Cheney's resignation.

So who are these purported voices for "sanity" and against "politicization"? Blogger William Sjostrom did some online sleuthing, and here's what he found:

VIPS does not seem to have a website, but its email is vips@counterpunch.org, and their open letter appears to have been published at CounterPunch (run by Alexander Cockburn, the Nation columnist), an outfit whose staple is stuff comparing Bush to Hitler. VIPS also published an open letter in opposition to the war at Common Dreams back in February. The spokesman for VIPS is Raymond McGovern, a retired CIA analyst. McGovern's email is also at CounterPunch. He is giving a briefing today [Tuesday] with Rep. Dennis Kucinich. McGovern has compared the Iraq war to Vietnam, even saying that it could lead to nuclear war. He has charged that if WMDs are found in Iraq, they may well have been planted. He believes Tenet's job is safe because if Tenet were fired, he would reveal that the White House ignored intelligence warnings pre-9/11. McGovern has urged CIA analysts to illegally release classified documents to show what he believes to be true, specifically citing Daniel Ellsberg.

Another member of the VIPS steering committee is William Christison, who among other things believes that the Bush administration is attempting to colonize the Middle East, jointly with Israel. He believes that the war on terror is being used to turn the US into a military dictatorship. He is also a backer of the left-wing UrgentCall, along with people such as Noam Chomsky, Barbara Kingsolver, Julian Bond, and Jonathan Schell.

None of this proves that VIPS is evil, or even wrong. It does say that Kristof is trying to pass off a fairly left-wing group as a group of non-partisan "professionals."

The question is: Was Kristof merely duped, or is this part of a broader pattern of dishonesty and delusion at the New York Times?

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110003753

25 posted on 07/25/2005 10:22:02 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: onyx

By the way, why are you up so late?


26 posted on 07/25/2005 10:22:48 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
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To: doug from upland

LOL! Well, let's not make this arguementative...lol.. let's use both trees! I've got three good hanging trees... each 110 years old. Hang 'em high!


27 posted on 07/25/2005 10:24:05 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS)) Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: Sam Hill; MJY1288; kcvl; Shermy

Well, well.....Kristof, the dining buddy of Joe Wilson, was pushing VIPS at the same time he was helping Wilson?


28 posted on 07/25/2005 10:24:10 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin

"Kristof, the dining buddy of Joe Wilson, was pushing VIPS at the same time he was helping Wilson?"

What a coincidence, huh?


29 posted on 07/25/2005 10:24:59 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: doug from upland

I am up late (and it is late here in Mississippi) because I just got my dsl connection installed today. Have been offline for over two weeks. Making up for lost time.


30 posted on 07/25/2005 10:25:32 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS)) Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: onyx

I'm looking at my palm tree and can't quite figure out how to do it.


31 posted on 07/25/2005 10:26:03 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
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To: Howlin
Bwahaha!

Excellent find. I didn't read the link, but the title and date alone is enough to make one spew...(that NYT article sure must look good on Mr. Johnson's resume).

32 posted on 07/25/2005 10:26:36 PM PDT by El Cid
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To: onyx

Two week withdrawal! Now I understand.


33 posted on 07/25/2005 10:26:40 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
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To: Sam Hill

bttt


34 posted on 07/25/2005 10:27:43 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: doug from upland

We'll work it out...lol. Maybe strap one of 'em to the palm tree, paint the cretin with molasses and let the ants and bees have at him.


35 posted on 07/25/2005 10:28:17 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS)) Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: El Cid

You really should read the article (it's not on the NYT web site) and get a really good look at one of the reasons the CIA had such crappy intelligence before 9-11.


36 posted on 07/25/2005 10:29:03 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Sam Hill

Sincerely yours,

Larry C. Johnson, former Analyst, CIA <----- VIPS

JOINED BY:

Mr. Brent Cavan, former Analyst, CIA

Mr. Vince Cannistraro, former Case Officer, CIA <----VIPS

Mr. Michael Grimaldi, former Analyst, CIA

Mr. Mel Goodman, former senior Analyst, CIA

Col. W. Patrick Lang (US Army retired), former Director, Defense Humint Services, DIA

Mr. David MacMichael, former senior estimates officer, National Intelligence Council, CIA

Mr. James Marcinkowski, former Case Officer, CIA

Mr. Ray McGovern, former senior Analyst and PDB Briefer, CIA <-----VIPS

Mr. Jim Smith, former Case Officer, CIA

Mr. William C. Wagner, former Case Officer, CIA

++++

Let's track down Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
Ray McGovern, a retired C.I.A. analyst
Larry Johnson, who used to work in the C.I.A. and State Department
Greg Thielmann, who retired in September after 25 years in the State Department,
the last four in the Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

Steering Group Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
Kathleen McGrath Christison, Santa Fe, NM
William Christison, Santa Fe, NM
David MacMichael, Linden, VA
Raymond McGovern, Arlington, VA

VIPS is a coast-to-coast enterprise; mostly intelligence officers from analysis side of CIA. Ray McGovern (rmcgovern@slschool.org) worked as a CIA analyst for 27 years

The VIPS can be reached at: vips@counterpunch.org

Patrick Eddington, a VIPS member and former CIA agent who resigned in 1996 to protest what he describes as the agency's refusal to investigate some of the possible causes of Gulf War veterans' medical problems.

Vince Cannistraro, a former CIA counterterrorism chief, said he saw little chance of CIA analysts going public to contradict the Bush administration.

Eugene Betit, a former defense intelligence analyst who belongs to Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS), formed in January to speak out on the use of intelligence to justify the war.

WMD Links
http://zfacts.com/p/471.html


37 posted on 07/25/2005 10:31:08 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Seattle Conservative

bttt


38 posted on 07/25/2005 10:31:37 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Howlin
My Goodness...:-)

This is getting deeper by the day

39 posted on 07/25/2005 10:32:05 PM PDT by MJY1288 (Whenever a Liberal is Speaking on the Senate Floor, Al-Jazeera Breaks in and Covers it LIVE)
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To: El Cid

Flashback: "Intelligence Analyst" Larry C. Johnson: "The Declining Terrorist Threat (July 10, 2001)"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1447248/posts?page=11


40 posted on 07/25/2005 10:32:38 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

bttt


41 posted on 07/25/2005 10:33:03 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Howlin

So it turns out that, while Larry Johnson is telling us that terrorism is a figment of our imaginations, he has a career helping multinational corporations and financial institutions counter threats posed by terrorism! What a hypocrite!

http://www.berg-associates.com/larryc.htm


42 posted on 07/25/2005 10:33:49 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: Howlin

Thanks for the tip and the links.

Where were these creeps when Bill Clinton was selling out the U.S.?


43 posted on 07/25/2005 10:34:30 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Seattle Conservative

Thank you. Yes, that is interesting.


44 posted on 07/25/2005 10:35:15 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Sam Hill
Pot calling the kettle black.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
45 posted on 07/25/2005 10:36:52 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Sam Hill; MJY1288; kcvl; Shermy

Somewhere in all this mess is a link to Clinton - Take it to the Bank!


46 posted on 07/25/2005 10:37:27 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie ('Cuntas haereses tu sola interemisti in universo mundo!')
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To: All
Turns out they aren't all crazy:

July 15, 2003

Why We Resigned from VIPS

It's About Policies, Not Personalities

By KATHLEEN and BILL CHRISTISON

Many readers of CounterPunch will have seen a statement by Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS), published on July 14 as a Memorandum for the President, decrying the "melting" down and disintegration of the U.S. intelligence capability, placing the burden of responsibility for this on Vice President Richard Cheney, and calling for Cheney's resignation. Many will also have noted that, although charter members of VIPS, we did not sign this memorandum. In fact, we resigned from VIPS, with some regret, as the only credible way to dissociate ourselves from the memo.

We have been asked for some elaboration of our reasoning, and an explanation is indeed in order. We want to make it clear at the start that our actions signal no change of heart or of thinking on our part about the policies the Bush administration has been pursuing. We share the disgust of other VIPS members at the aggressive policy direction of this administration and particularly at its distortion and politicization of intelligence. Our disagreement is over methods, not principles. Our objection is to this particular memorandum; we continue to respect the VIPS organization itself and its purposes.

Our principal problem with the memo is its call for Cheney's resignation. Not that this result would not in fact please us. But our very strong feeling is that an organization like VIPS, and any serious policy analysts, should be writing about policies and actions, not personalities. Harry Truman famously observed that "the buck stops here." Calling for Cheney's resignation, or the resignation of any single individual, is to us a cheap shot. Virtually everyone in this administration is implicated in some way, and Bush is ultimately entirely responsible; the buck stops there. Cheney shares responsibility at his level. Secretaries of Defense and State Rumsfeld and Powell share it at their level. And so on down through Condoleezza Rice and CIA Director George Tenet, and then through all the neo-conservatives starting with Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Richard Perle.

VIPS should, as it has done, call for a full-bore and independent investigation. No other purpose is served, except possibly grandstanding, by issuing another memorandum now. Furthermore, calling for Cheney's resignation before an independent investigation is wrong tactically, in our view. If he ended up as a scapegoat and this ended all calls for further change, VIPS would not have achieved what is most important: changing the aggressive, strutting, anything-goes approach to foreign policy that this administration pursues and that has led it to misuse intelligence so badly.

We have a further problem with the memorandum as issued. We feel that it shoots from the hip, and this is dangerous in so serious a matter. Administration spokesmen are extremely clever at using verbal gymnastics to dodge responsibility. For this reason, any organization that goes up against them must be extremely clever itself about what it writes and must avoid at all costs being caught out in statements that cannot be adequately backed up. VIPS in particular, made up as it is of retired intelligence officers without first-hand inside information, must be scrupulously careful in anything it writes about what goes on inside the administration. This is particularly so when the subject is lying and obfuscation by senior officials and when an art form as notoriously uncertain and as broadly interpretable as analysis of intelligence data is involved.

To take just one example, statements such as the remark in the VIPS memo that "there is just too much evidence that Ambassador Wilson was sent to Niger at Vice President Cheney's behest," when Wilson himself has made this connection much more indirect (writing in a New York Times op-ed that unspecified CIA officials asked him to go, and paid his expenses, because Cheney "had questions") diminish VIPS' credibility and open it to charges of the very kind of truth-stretching that it is trying to combat.

We do not feel that this latest VIPS memorandum to the president is as careful or as judicious in its language as it should be. It is an attention-getter, an effort to keep the subject alive, rather than a reasoned piece of analysis and exposition. The Bush administration as a whole has clearly played fast and loose with the truth in a matter of surpassing importance. We fear that, in its very laudable effort to expose the administration, this memorandum runs the risk of showing up VIPS itself as a group that plays fast and loose with the truth. There is a place for rhetoric and flashy writing. We do not believe a memorandum for the president about a subject as serious to the nation's destiny as the politicization and distortion of intelligence in the service of aggressive warfare is such a place.

Bill Christison joined the CIA in 1950, and served on the analysis side of the Agency for 28 years. From the early 1970s he served as National Intelligence Officer (principal adviser to the Director of Central Intelligence on certain areas) for, at various times, Southeast Asia, South Asia and Africa. Before he retired in 1979 he was Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis, a 250-person unit.

Kathleen Christison also worked in the CIA, retiring in 1979. Since then she has been mainly preoccupied by the issue of Palestine. She is the author of Perceptions of Palestine and The Wound of Dispossession. The Christison's are contributors to Cockburn and St. Clair's new book: The Politics of Anti-Semitism.

The Christison's can be reached at: christison@counterpunch.org

http://www.counterpunch.org/christison07152003.html

47 posted on 07/25/2005 10:38:13 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: LibFreeOrDie

Ex CIA Larry Johnson: Terrorism Isn't A Threat, But Big Tobacco Is!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/1448666/posts?page=3


48 posted on 07/25/2005 10:39:17 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: DoughtyOne

Shoveling?


49 posted on 07/25/2005 10:39:47 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: MJY1288

I tell you what, MJ, if all that comes out of this is a perjury charge, I'm going to have a stroke.

There is *Something* going on here.


50 posted on 07/25/2005 10:41:30 PM PDT by Howlin
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