NASA: No Flights Until Foam Issue Fixed

Associated Press ^ | 7/27/05 | MARCIA DUNN

[microgood]

If you think about it, with the EPA around, human space travel is no longer safe for the US. I guess we'll have to give over the exploration of space to a country that does not have to answer to the EPA.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Looks like Bush hire Griffen to test the Shuttle team...they have flunked the test...

[auboy]

I still love my '86 4Runner, but I'm not planning to take it into Earth orbit. Why are we still using old space craft in 2005? Did budget cuts have anything to do with a technology standstill? We went to the Moon and back (with a few really close calls) several times starting in 1969. That was 36 years ago.

I'd like to strap some environmentally friendly foam to Big Al and send him into orbit.

[Names Ash Housewares]

"OK, what the heck has NASA been doing for the past two years?"

"Spending over $1 billion."

Exploring Mars, exploring Saturn, Exploring Titan, exporing comets.

Improving the shuttle in many other ways.

Its a test flight. TEST being the operative word here.
They are all test flights really.
We learn by doing.

NASA fixed several areas, and now another has come to attention because of all the new cameras and photography now.

[AndyJackson]

OK, what the heck has NASA been doing for the past two years?

Astounding, isn't it. Never underestimate the inertia of a decrepit old incompetent federal bureuacracy. Never.

[kyperman]

"It is not the same problem, the area of the foam dislodging is not the same area as before and in fact this problem is due to (part of the) changes made to eliminate the original problem.

As in some problem solving, when you change the landscape to eliminate the gofer from digging a hole in your front yard, he may just instead dig one in the backyard."

Thats true, I got about a whole family of those little buggers in my yard, I drive em out of one hole and they dig another one, lousy rodents....not unlike liberals is some ways....

[Ciexyz]

Prayers for their safe return.

[LibertarianInExile]

"NASA is worthless without a real challenge. They need a mission that is difficult enough to clear out the current layer of inept management while attracting new and capable talent."

Nope. The whole NASA concept needs put out to pasture. Space and research in general need to go back to private hands. If government wants pure research done, it should explicitly describe the functions that research is for from which government could really benefit, name a price it's willing to pay toward such a goal or item, and award it to the first person to come up with a practical method or invention.

Even that is unlikely to be a Constitutional use of tax dollars. If the private market doesn't want to do it, it usually ain't worth doing.

And don't get me started on all that Texas and Florida real estate sitting there going to little productive use.

[Retired Chemist]

During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external tank and impacted the orbiter

http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/people/journals/space/katnik/sts87-12-23.html

[diverteach]

"OK, what the heck has NASA been doing for the past two years?"

Spending over $1 billion.

Looks like they've spent that $1 billion on a bunch of new cameras to take higher resolution pictures of the foam insulation falling off to prove that the new foam sucks.
Funny thing is is that they already knew it fell off upon inspection of a shuttle after its return.

[ARCADIA]

If the private market doesn't want to do it, it usually ain't worth doing.

The private market has never invested in raw research, or in massive new projects. NASA provides a vehicle to fund private research while shielding it from the legal risk of loss. How would you like to be the company footing the bill for the Columbia Disaster? Private can exploit technology and develop applications, but your overly idealistic if you think that it can tackle stuff like this.

Use NASA but fund it adequately to do the job; we do not need curators, we need innovation.

[JustDoItAlways]

The foam is just insulation to keep the fuel cold before lift-off.

A new design for the insulation factor is needed since it is clear that this flimsy-any-kind-of-other-foam-as-well design is too dangerous to the shuttle now (same problem was there for the first 100 flights though.)

Solid rocket booster instead, thicker tank, up-to-the-minute fueling, new vehicle are the only options really.

Will be a long time and lots of testing before she goes up again.

[crail]

NASA has a new mission now. Return to the moon, then to mars. President Bush has put something in motion now that is unstoppable. Thank god.

What's on the moon? For the billions spent going to mars, we could send robots to every planet in the solar system. Robots that do better measurements, robots that don't need life support. Robots that don't need to come home. Humans do nothing more in space than try to stay alive. For all the human exploration of low earth orbit we've had, we've got a "permanant" station in low earth orbit that does no science, and a shuttle that ferries people to the station where they do no science. Real science is performed by robots who've been *far* farther than humans, and done better science. All the true space explorers of the past two decades have been robotic.

If humans do any more exploration in space, it will be by carrying a robot measurement tool to a nearby planet that's already been visited by dozens of probes that carried themselves, setting it on the ground, and letting it do it's job... the science, while the astronaut poses for pictures. Oh, and for a greatly increased price.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Here is a quick solution: go back to the OLD foam that didn't fall off and tell the envirowhackos to go kill a truck load of puppies.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Griffen is going to have to get out the big axe if NASA is to be credible.

[LibertarianInExile]

"The private market has never invested in raw research, or in massive new projects."

Oh, PUH-LEEZE. Wilbur and Orville Wright. Thomas Edison. Leonardo DaVinci. Robert Goddard. See also Space Ship One, Paul Allen.

"NASA provides a vehicle to fund private research while shielding it from the legal risk of loss. How would you like to be the company footing the bill for the Columbia Disaster? Private can exploit technology and develop applications, but your overly idealistic if you think that it can tackle stuff like this."

If your argument is that lawyers suck, well, you're right. If your argument is that nobody innovates because lawyers suck, I refer you to the U.S. patent office. You're overly attached to NASA and government research money if you think private industry CAN'T tackle stuff like this.

[Raycpa]

Just what is the Montreal Protocol?

Treaty signed by Reagan essentially banning freon whose patents had ended thereby giving Dupont a blank check to charge exorbitant prices for inferior chemicals while throwing a bone to enviro wacko's and placing a secret tax on all of us. What is known as a political win/win.

[Names Ash Housewares]

We are obligated to give to the next generation the same step up as we inherited from those before. We do not have the right to NOT explore. It is inevitable anyways. It is our very nature to do these things. The horizon will always call us. And it is the reason why we are 6 billion strong today. Exploration is part of something so much bigger. It is at the core of humanity itself. We are compelled deep within to do so. People must go and see and touch for themselves. They must be there. Robotic exploration is part of the equation. Not the goal. The goal is far larger.



I could point to dozens of web pages about the benefits of
human space exploration, technologies developed and of lives saved because
of it, but you can easily find them yourself on google.

Im going to tell you what I think instead, and some comments from others that speak a little more to the heart that I find ring true.

One of my most convincing arguments for space exploration is the analogy that Earth itself is a spacecraft. Everything we learn about how to function and live in space applies directly to our spacehip Earth. How to recycle air, water, how to generate and use power efficiently, how to grow food in closed ecosystems. All of it is important. We learn by doing. There is no other way. All of this can benefit mankind in a world with a fast growing population. Understanding other worlds is how we understand OUR world better, to understand how it formed and where it is going. Its our only home for now.


"We must not cease from exploration, and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began, and to know it for the first time."
T.S. Eliot


Astronaut Story Musgrave thoughts on the matter.....................

"Why Space, Why Explore?

We have no choice, Sir. It is the Nature of Humanity, it is the Nature
of Life

The Globe was created and Life Evolved, and you look at every single
cubic millimeter on this Earth, You can go 30,000 feet down below the
Earth surface, You can go 40,000 feet up in the air and Life is There.
When you look at the globe down there, you see Teeming Life Everywhere

It is the Power of Life, And maybe I am not just a Human up here, you
know. Now Life is Leaping off the Planet. It is heading to other parts
of the Solar System, other parts of the Universe

There are those kinds of Pressures. It isn't simply politics, it is
not simply technology, it is really not just the essence of humanity,
but it is sort of also, you could look at it as maybe the Essence of
Life. I think Teilhard de Chardin, in Phenomenon of Man, I believe he
put that incredibly well. So those kind of Forces are at Work. It is
the nature of humans to be exploratory and to Push On

Yes, it costs resources and it does cost a lot, and there is a risk,
there is a penalty, there is a down side, but Exploration and
Pioneering, I think those are the critical things, it is the Essence
of what Human Beings are, and that is to try to understand their
Universe and to try to participate in the entire Universe and not just
their little Neighborhood" -Story Musgrave


President Bush at the Columbia memorial at JSC................

"The cause of exploration and discovery is not an option we choose, It
is a desire written in the human heart."


And at the announcement of new American space policy...........

"Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once
drawn into unknown lands and across the open sea. We choose to explore
space because doing so improves our lives, and lifts our national
spirit."

[Brett66]

It isn't about just science or exploration, it's about figuring out a path towards settlement.

[KevinDavis]

Yep...