N.C. posts 11 votes against CAFTA

The Shelby Star ^ | July 29, 2005 | The Star

[hedgetrimmer]

While Central American exporters celebrate the passage of CAFTA, local reaction remains cautious and disappointed.

Hoyt Bailey, former executive vice president of Dover Textiles and president of the Dover Foundation, said he was not surprised the Central America Free Trade Agreement made it through the House of Representatives.

“The big surprise to me was making China a most favored nation,” Bailey said. “CAFTA is miniscule compared to making China a viable trading partner.

[CAFTA] is just another way of taking American jobs away from real, working-class people. It’s very discouraging to see our manufacturing strength go to other countries.”

One can see the effects of policies like CAFTA by looking down the streets of Shelby, Bailey said.

“More stores are closed than open,” he said. “We’re in a mess, and we’ll wake up one day when it’s too late.”

Dan Ramsey, plant manager at Kings Mountain Hosiery Mill Inc., said they would wait and see how it turned out.

“They always make promises that never materialize,” he said, adding that the people who voted for this voted for special interests rather than their constituents.

“It’s going to take more business out of this country and more jobs,” he said. “If it turns out like I think it will, the business we are in will eventually leave this country completely.”

Eleven of North Carolina’s 13 representatives voted against CAFTA, including Rep. Patrick McHenry, whose 10th Congressional District includes Cleveland County. During his campaign to win the seat, McHenry pledged that he would not support the trade agreement. Fellow Republican Sue Myrick, R-9th District, who endorsed McHenry during his campaign, voted for CAFTA.

McHenry said there was intense pressure to vote in favor of the agreement.

“You hear a lot from party leaders and from senior Bush administration leaders about voting for CAFTA. I explained to them very consistently and to everyone who came to lobby that it would be bad for the people of Western North Carolina,” McHenry said. “I am not going to do anything to hurt the people who elected me. I am here to represent the 10th District values.”

McHenry added that the close vote sends a message that the United States does not need any more trade agreements.

“We need to enforce the laws. We need to hold China’s feet to the fire, and they need to honor their trade agreements and not to continue their aggressive stance against the United States,” McHenry added.

[Dat Mon]

YOU SAID..."He's only a troll in some alter universe where 'conservative' means supporting limits on people's freedom to buy and sell as they wish."

Sorry...you're not gonna like this but...

Implicit in the very concept of commerce treaties (as specified in the Constiution) or 'trade agreements' is the fact that they control or limit trade or commerce in some fashion.

Nobody gets to "buy or sell as they wish " in the world we live in...unless they live in a primitive society or culture.

[hedgetrimmer]

They still stayed in the country. That is a small detail that the "free traders" never mention. And there isn't exactly "free trade" between the states. There are plenty of regulations about what you can bring across borders for sale between states.

Fifty caliber weapons to California, for example.

[investigateworld]

Actually, things are going so well that the nations largest banks went hat in hand to the Republican Party and begged them to change the bankruptcy laws.
So just what do they see on the horizon?

[1rudeboy]

You do realize that, in the time it took you to compose your reply, I could probably transfer a couple million dollars to the Caymans? Welcome to the real world, and there's little you can do about it.

[1rudeboy]

Why are you so fixated on the new Bankruptcy Act? So it got harder for you to run up your credit cards and simply walk away. Deal with it.

[Nowhere Man]

Regrettably I think you're correct. I think that it's sad that people think that people are easily "retrained" for skills that that may not have the ability. We need to save jobs. The list that was posted earlier does point out where there is potential job creation however not everone can be a nurse or an sysop or the IT manager. Should we simply discard these displaced people or relegate then to picture coded cash registers at MD's. Are we going to be swamped by millions of people that have graduated from Hamburger U? Intelligence levels and skill levels vary greatly in the USA. Can we really expect the 60 year old, 40 year veteran of the textile industry to ready accept and integrate into new career fields? The Republicans and Bush certainly have lost their "compassion" on this issue.

You posted one of my arguments as well. Not everyone can be a computer programmer (that's being outsourced anyhoo), a nanotech engineer, or some other professional type. Not everyone is cut out for a college or tech school education, many times, it is better to learn from the bottom up while working on the job. Plus manufacturing is a value added enterprise, you take raw materials from the earth worth only a few dollars in many cases and you turn them into things worth tens, hundreds, or even thousands of dollars. When you have service economy, it is like pushing money around the table in a Monopoly game, no real wealth is created, the only wealth that is truly created is manufacturing.

I think one day this will backfire on the free traders, they detest strong socialism or communism yet by their actions, they very will will get what they don't like when people are out of work or underemployed will clamour for it out of frustration and necessity. All it takes is some "Anakin Skywalker" to come along and things will start to roll.

I just get upset at these Bill Gates wannabees where they look down on manufacturing and the working class in general as either slackers or "the great unwashed." I've seen it and experienced. This also creates resentment and anger, yes, it affects my take on all of this too. I'll be honest, I do feel some resentment to them myself. I know I should not, but their actions do push people away, people that could be valuable allies. We need less condescending attitudes and put-downs and more compassion, otherwise, we are doomed as a nation and people. In short, I'm politically homeless, certainly not Democrat, but not really Republican either. I'll be honest again, where I am socially, militarily and morally conservative but economically moderate/centrist. I say I'm an "independent conservative" or a "Michael Savage conservative." All I can say is I'm getting closer to God as time goes on, in the end only He is the truth and I look up to Him for guidance.

[investigateworld]

LOL I have *zero* credit card debt. I was re-reading Atlas Shrugged, when the matter was pending in Congress.
It jumped out at me as to Ayn's foresight.
Funny, for Conservatives to go running to the government to increase profits?
Does strike me as hypocritical (and the perfect response for the "Unemployment is only 5% chant", heard so often on this forum) Deal with it? Again, you gave me a laugh. Sounds like MOVEON.

[politicalwit]

"Not everyone can be a computer programmer (that's being outsourced anyhoo), a nanotech engineer, or some other professional type...."

Seems like these trade agreements only increase the profit margin of Walmart. How nice it would be to go into a store and purchase a quality pair of US made shoes (hell, even LL Bean outsources their muckers now)or a quality shirt made in the USA. A previous poster says "like them move to Malaysia" if they want to work, suggesting these people that work in the manufacturing sector are second class citizens. A lot of those people love their jobs, otherwise they would be working something else. As someone posted on another CAFTA thread "Are we going to have to purchase weapons from China when we go to war with China? Something to think about....

[Kitten Festival]

All Eleven of you pro-Hugo-Chavez cowards are targetted for political death.

Just watch.

[Kitten Festival]

Add me - if you would.

[politicalwit]

" Funny, for Conservatives to go running to the government to increase profits?"

Please it's "Republicans" that are running to the government, not conservatives. It's GWB and the Party of RINOs that are leading the pack....

[investigateworld]

You are correct, thank you.

[hedgetrimmer]

All Eleven of you pro-Hugo-Chavez cowards are targetted for political death.

What?

[hedgetrimmer]

You've been added to my CAFTA PING list

[Huber]

I heard Walter E.'s discussion about how it is good to lose buggy whip and ice truck jobs- but can anyone name one innovation that we will be recieving from Costa Rica, particularly innovations that are worth losing jobs over.

We will be receiving high quality and affordable coffee, sugar and pineapple from Costa Rica. What is seen, and what is not seen. The innovation will come from good ole'Yankee ingenuity, provided we pull our kids from public schools before they lose every last spark of creativity!

I'll leave you with a thought from Frederic Bastiat:

What Is Seen and What Is Not Seen

In the economic sphere an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are fortunate if we foresee them.

1.1 There is only one difference between a bad economist and a good one: the bad economist confines himself to the visible effect; the good economist takes into account both the effect that can be seen and those effects that must be foreseen.

1.2 Yet this difference is tremendous; for it almost always happens that when the immediate consequence is favorable, the later consequences are disastrous, and vice versa. Whence it follows that the bad economist pursues a small present good that will be followed by a great evil to come, while the good economist pursues a great good to come, at the risk of a small present evil.

1.3 The same thing, of course, is true of health and morals. Often, the sweeter the first fruit of a habit, the more bitter are its later fruits: for example, debauchery, sloth, prodigality. When a man is impressed by the effect that is seen and has not yet learned to discern the effects that are not seen, he indulges in deplorable habits, not only through natural inclination, but deliberately.

1.4 This explains man's necessarily painful evolution. Ignorance surrounds him at his cradle; therefore, he regulates his acts according to their first consequences, the only ones that, in his infancy, he can see. It is only after a long time that he learns to take account of the others.

[Kitten Festival]

All Eleven of you pro-Hugo-Chavez cowards are targetted for political death. It just means I'm mad at them. I want them voted out of office - political death. Nothing they do will make me happy, no matter what it is. Not real death of course, just obscurity and disgrace.

[Kitten Festival]

Don't make a blanket assumption that no innovation comes from countries like Costa Rica. Chile, which HAS A FREE TRADE PACT WITH THE us - produced a scientist who showed that non-fetal stem-cell technology was able to make a Korean paraplegic woman walk. That was a frickin' Chilean! There is a lot of potential for innovation coming from these countries that produce free trade. The citizens of these countries come from intact families and have schools that require literacy. All they need is opportunity. Don't put them down before you have seen what they can do.

[Nowhere Man]

Seems like these trade agreements only increase the profit margin of Walmart. How nice it would be to go into a store and purchase a quality pair of US made shoes (hell, even LL Bean outsources their muckers now)or a quality shirt made in the USA. A previous poster says "like them move to Malaysia" if they want to work, suggesting these people that work in the manufacturing sector are second class citizens. A lot of those people love their jobs, otherwise they would be working something else. As someone posted on another CAFTA thread "Are we going to have to purchase weapons from China when we go to war with China? Something to think about....

I know, they have a smug attitude about it. All I can say is that it isn't a way to "win friends and influence people" (with apologies to Dale Carnegie). It will either drive fence sitting people or people who would be our allies but are driven away towards the Democrats or keep them home. Heck, it's even affecting me, depending what happens, I might stay home in 2006 or 2008 but more likely vote my conscience and go write in or third party. Heck, one time I was fed up with both sides in a local election, I wrote my own name and voted for myself. It's all up in the air, I'd love to see someone like Tancredo run although he would face an uphill battle. Who knows where I'm headed, it is still too early to tell.

I remember my grandmother said the same thing back in the 1970's about our manufacture leaving the country that was sjust startng then. "Where will we buy our arms if we get into war? Where will we get our supplies?" Well, if Red China invades, I do have a secret plan, since we won't have shoes and clothes, I'll take them on naked with my Marlin Model 60 .22LR rifle, they will die from laughter. B-) B-P Seriously, we might have to go low-tech if things get really bad but yeah, that is a huge concern of mine too.

[Grampa Dave]

Syds Dad, I want to thank you for your data and well founded logic versus the doomers and gloomers on the Cafta Threads.

Welcome to Free Republic!

Below is an example of your posted data:

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled N.C. posts 11 votes against CAFTA , Syds Dad wrote:
Wit..

Do you want to know what your future looks like?

Expected new positions through 2012

Registered nurses: 623,000
Postsecondary teachers: 603,000
Management: 376,000
Nursing aides: 343,000
Elementary school teachers: 223,000
Accountants: 205,000
Computer systems analysts: 184,000
Secondary school teachers: 180,000
Computer software engineers: 179,000
Information systems managers: 103,000


I'm sorry that you want to manufacture t-shirts and blue jeans for the rest of your life, or sew shoes together.

Get over it.

[SierraWasp]

"Get over it."

My goodness, I should say so!!!