Boeing's F-15 tries to stay aloft

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | July 30, 2005 | Tim McLaughlin

[Righty_McRight]

Boeing Co.'s St. Louis-made F-15 Eagle used to be the sure thing of fighter jet procurement. Now the aging fighter is just a long shot in its own country.

Jim Albaugh, chief executive of Boeing Integrated Defense Systems, says the odds are against the U.S. Air Force signing a multiyear deal to buy more F-15s. That assessment isn't surprising as the Pentagon prepares to spend billions of dollars over the next few decades for the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, two planes under development by Lockheed Martin Corp.

Still, some influential members of Congress say the Air Force needs a hedge against production delays or cost overruns. They believe the F-15 can play an important role in keeping the country's dwindling inventory of fighter jets at a healthy level during the transition to the Raptor and JSF.

One potential scenario has the Air Force buying anywhere from 100 to 144 F-15s as insurance against a slip in the JSF program, according to people familiar with informal discussions that started about two years ago.

That would be a boon for the F-15 program. Production of the storied combat plane will end in 2008, unless Boeing wins more orders. St. Louis defense workers have made more than 1,500 of the F-15s. The first F-15A flight was made in 1972.

Currently, the most hopeful market for more F-15s is Singapore, which could make a decision as early as next month on whether to take the Boeing plane or a French-made fighter in a competition worth an estimated $1 billion.

[Kitanis]

Ah yes...

I served at Bitburg AB from 1991-1993 just before they announced it to close down.

F-15's on Zulu alert were a awsome thing to behold.

but the 36th Fighter Wing was deactivated and now operates as the 36th Air Expeditionary Wing at Anderson AB, Guam

[al baby]

Evergreen International Aviation is proud to announce the development of an advanced multi-mission aircraft, the Evergreen Supertanker. This aircraft, a Boeing 747 with 24,000 gallons of tank space on board, will offer the most superior drop capabilities, safety standards and operational flexibility of any aircraft on the market. Evergreen’s legacy is a commitment to Quality Without Compromise. The Evergreen Supertanker is an extension of this commitment.

Areonaut Have you seen this crazy idea I like it ping your list if you want to share it

[rmlew]

Unfortunately, we are putting all of our faith in the F-18G.
I would love to have another 96 F-15E's in the US inventory and perhaps an equal number in the Japanese inventory.

[Mr. Jazzy]

Are these F-18-G's all in the Navy/Marine inventory, or are they also to be used by the USAF?

[Porterville]

That would be fine. Arm ourselves against communist Euro-weanies..... I been thinking we need to take over Europe and give it to the Israelis.

[rmlew]

Define "Rival".
The Russian SU-27 varients (SU-30, SU-34, SU-35)are damn good jets. Put in a American or European systems into an SU-35, and you have a more manueverable jet than the F-15, with greater payload, at 2/3 the cost.
The Eurofighter Typhoon is a better air to air fighter than the F-15.
The Eagle is long in the tooth.

[rmlew]

The air force currently divides electronic warfare and "Wild Weasel" into different platforms. We use the EC-130 and the EA-6B for dazzling enemy radar. We use F-16C/D to actually destroy enemy SAM installations.
I believe that the EF-18G will replace the EA-6.

[Mr. Jazzy]

"Prowlers" in the USAF?


What is this world coming to?

[rmlew]

The airfoce has been using them since the EF-111 Raven was retired. (Damn shame, about the EF-111, but it was becoming expensive to operate.)

[Mustng959]

Yep, Bitburg, great base in its day. Pulled Zulu entry control quite a few times. We'd get together after a mid shift at the NCO club, eat steak and eggs, and watch Green Berets, The Wild Geese, Apocolypse Now, and other gung-ho movies on their big screen. Atari was just coming out with their home gaming system (2600, I think), so we'd all test our joystick skills against each other. Usually on 24 hour break after a swing and before a mid, we'd go to the gym and play racquetball until morning.
Those were some great times for a scrapping young man overseas with no personal transportation. Friendships were easily made with peers and the thought of getting older never entered one's mind. Live for the day and let tomorrow take care of itself was the rule of thumb.

[Shazbot29]

If my info is correct, an F-15 has never been shot down in battle.

But, yes, sadly it's day is over.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Boeing has mismanaged every asset and program they got when they bought McD-D, except when someone from McD-D (like Stonecipher, who moved the company to a city with NO GOOD AIRPORT, before he got caught banging -- and promoting -- some marketing bimbo) was mismanaging it.

By the way, before Stonecipher got caught with his pants down, literally, he made every single employee sign an ethics pledge. What a phony.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Red6]

Does this include the C17?

Red6

[Criminal Number 18F]

Does this include the C17?

Ya got me. The C-17 was a Douglas program originally, and Boeing just badly cost-overran it, they didn't actually destroy it, unlike the civil jet program or the helicopter subsidiary.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Criminal Number 18F]

Does this include the C17?

Ya got me. The C-17 was a Douglas program originally, and Boeing just badly cost-overran it, they didn't actually destroy it, unlike the civil jet program or the helicopter subsidiary.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[BurbankKarl]

Of course we need more of them....what kind of question is that? More F16s too.

The Nat Guard ones on Ready status have all sorts of problems.

[Red6]

Actually the F18 is also Boeing isn't it?

Strange how this inept Boeing seems to punch out a fighter UNDER cost UNDER time line isn't it? Is that very common?

BTW, the C17 is UNDER cost today. Or am I wrong? :)

Red6

[Red6]

(opinion)

Boeing bought up a lot of various firms some time ago. They DID suffer from internal organizational issues because of the turmoil created by this. The inefficiency was noticeable.

In the defense sector however Boeing has done very well, despite some of the scandals with tanker purchases etc. “THE BOTTOM LINE” is what matters and Boeing delivers.

If you want to see a joke, look at Europe and the EF. Ten years too late, they are now fielding a half baked marginal fighter at over cost. Hardly comparable to the F18 which was ahead of schedule and under cost and is in fact very similar to a EF (Or should I say the EF similar to the F18) in capabilities and design. Both are late fourth generation platforms with similar specs even. In fact the EF even uses a spin off from the APG65 which they renamed.

BTW, Boeing is already making a “come back” in the civil market in Asia and the Middle East. On top of that, though old news, 9-11 did have a profound impact on our economy more so that say Germany or GB. Despite subsidies, protectionist practices of much of Europe, Boeing will push itself through out of the shear fact that it’s a private competitively based firm that is bottom line focused. Outside of Europe and the Airbus zone (Those nations that subsidies and fund Airbus will buy Airbus for their state run airlines, it’s not even a question) Boeing will do good. Inside the Airbus zone Boeing will get the crumbs from small carriers like Ryan air that are private. I stated this before elsewhere; in Europe you have pseudo-market economies. Lufthansa, the state owned airline will buy Airbus the state subsidized airplane and will park it in hangers at Frankfurt, the state owned airport which is now building hangers that are partially indirectly funded with tax revenue. Do you really think that the loss of much of the sales in Europe is out of shear competitive reasons? Hardly. Lufthansa, Air France and others will buy the A380 no matter what! The loss of market share in Europe is a result of Europe closing off its market, not just competition.

Red6

[Red6]

Well,

They are already BUILDING (Production/no test or prototype) major components for the JSF. At Ft Worth TX everything is already rolling into place for large scale production. Stop embarrassing yourself at this point. We all remember you retarded posts in the past!

Red6