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JPFO ALERT: IS S. 397 A TROJAN HORSE?
email alert | August 4, 2005 | JPFO

Posted on 08/04/2005 8:53:33 AM PDT by JOAT

ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization

August 4, 2005

JPFO ALERT: IS S. 397 A TROJAN HORSE?

You may have heard a lot of praise for S. 397, which last week passed the U.S. Senate. This bill is supposedly intended to protect firearms manufacturers against nuisance lawsuits.

There's been minor grumbling about the "safety lock" provisions in the proposed legislation, but otherwise S. 397 has had overwhelming support.

Just about the time we were wondering why even some usually gun-unfriendly senators like Herb Kohl (D-WI) were in favor of this bill, an alert Congresswatcher contacted us with a warning.

"The only thing I see that's good about the bill," this sharp-eyed observer wrote, "is that it hasn't become law."

After taking a closer look, we agree.

As our correspondent pointed out, the real problem lies in Sec. 6 "Armor Piercing Ammunition."

THIS SECTION COULD ALLOW ALL CENTERFIRE RIFLE AMMO TO BE BANNED

Here's how.

Part One of Sec. 6 makes it illegal to make, import, sell or deliver any "armor-piercing" ammunition EXCEPT:

1) For the use of state and federal government departments or agencies.

2) For export

3) For Attorney General-approved testing.

Part Two "enhances" criminal sentences for anyone who possesses "armor-piercing" ammunition during the commission of a crime.

Part Three is where the trap is really sprung. Because this part instructs the U.S. Attorney General to "conduct a study to determine whether a uniform standard for the testing of projectiles against Body Armor is feasible."

NOTE WELL: The tests to determine whether or not ammo is "armor piercing" are NOT to be conducted against armor plate, such as that used on military combat vehicles. The tests are to be conducted against body armor. And as anyone knowledgeable about firearms knows, VIRTUALLY ALL RIFLE AMMO WILL PENETRATE BODY ARMOR. So will some pistol ammo.

We asked firearms maker Len Savage if the warning we received was well-taken or whether this was simply a misinterpretation of the proposed law. Here's Len's reply:

"Yes. This gives the A.G. the power to say what is and is not "armor piercing." There is no language for what type of test is to be conducted (other than ballistic vests). If the test were on 1 inch "rolled homogeneous armor plate" then there would be no problem. If the test is a level I "vest" material, then EVERYTHING including .22 longs, are going to be illegal ammo.

"The bill would effectively give the power to decide to ONE person. NO vote, NO appeal, NO rights. (Just like the current mess with [the sloppy, no-standards testing practices of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms].)

"I figured it was a matter of time before they got around to figuring out: Control the ammo and you control the guns. Of course there would be born a "black market" for ammo, very close to the black market for marijuana, in size, scope, and risks. Next will be the sentencing recommendations for possession, and distributing (dealing). Components will be viewed as constructive intent of illegal manufacturing of "terrorist material."

"This is a dangerous path for America. I am forced to ask myself: Why the continued attack and obvious methodical disarming of American Citizens? There is only one answer: control and power."

Just as "Saturday-Night specials," "military-style assault weapons," "cop-killer bullets," and "sporting purposes" have all been used as deceptive, emotionally loaded key words to justify regulations and outright bans, it now appears that the designation "armor-piercing ammunition" is likely to be mis-applied in an attempt to deprive Americans of their rights.

We should all be asking some serious questions about the real impact S. 397 will have on our freedoms if it becomes law. One important question is: Why are our "leaders" so desperate that they would attempt to slip such a potentially draconian provision into a supposedly pro-gun bill?

The Liberty Crew

LINKS:

S. 397, Sec. 6 http://tinyurl.com/9u8mt (click on [S.397.ES])

A reality check on the U.S. government's sloppy firearms testing procedures: http://www.jpfo.org/alert20050701a.htm

============================================================

JPFO mirror site: http://www.jpfo.net

============================================================

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Regain your freedom - download the song "Justice Day" today! http://www.rebelfirerock.com/downloadjd.html

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Original Material in JPFO ALERTS is Copyright 2005 JPFO, Inc. Permission is granted to reproduce this alert in full, so long as the following JPFO contact information is included:

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership PO Box 270143 Hartford, Wisconsin 53027

Phone: 1-262-673-9745 Order line: 1-800-869-1884 (toll-free!) Fax: 1-262-673-9746 Web: http://www.jpfo.org/

============================================================= JPFO ALERTS is provided as a free service to the Internet Community. If you wish to help support this service, consider joining JPFO! $20/year (no, you don't have to be Jewish!) Join for 2 years and receive a free JPFO lapel pin! Life Membership: $500 or $41.67/month for 12 months.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 109th; bang; banglist; jpfo; s397
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-87 next last
Yet another end-around attempt by the scum.
1 posted on 08/04/2005 8:53:34 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: JOAT

Isn't that amendment Larry Craig's ?? WTF why did he tack that on there? He was the chief sponsor of the bill.


2 posted on 08/04/2005 8:57:25 AM PDT by HKaddict
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To: Vic3O3; cavtrooper21; Joe Brower

Ping! Looks like S397 is not what it is supposed to be!

Semper Fi


3 posted on 08/04/2005 8:59:02 AM PDT by dd5339 (A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path.)
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To: JOAT

"JPFO ALERT: IS S. 397 A TROJAN HORSE?"

I don't see it listed as a Trojan Horse.

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/auto/index/indexS.html


4 posted on 08/04/2005 9:01:47 AM PDT by Moral Hazard ("I believe the children are the future" - Whitney Houston; "Fight the future" - X-files)
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To: HKaddict
Isn't that amendment Larry Craig's ??

Yes.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1453494/posts

5 posted on 08/04/2005 9:06:34 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: dd5339
(Thomas)

Call your Congressmen and Senators NOW!

6 posted on 08/04/2005 9:07:33 AM PDT by yoe
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To: JOAT

Well, let's beat them. Send letters out to senators and congressmen urging revision.


7 posted on 08/04/2005 9:08:05 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin
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To: JOAT; adam_az; American in Israel; Ancesthntr; aragorn; archy; Badray; buccaneer81; cc2k; ...

BANG!


8 posted on 08/04/2005 9:09:45 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: JOAT

Whoaaaaaa nellie!

Just when you thought it was safe to back a bill...!!!

Thanks to Mr. Z and his alert folk!

Contacting legiscritters now!

Top sends


9 posted on 08/04/2005 9:10:23 AM PDT by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG!!!!)
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To: Travis McGee

Yeah, I saw it.

Degenerate pondscum, the lot of them.

The time to begin turning in our bullets gets closer every day.

The good news is that the gungrabbing laMecha AG Speedy Gonzalez will have the authority to regulate,


10 posted on 08/04/2005 9:16:06 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Google search CFR North American Community.)
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To: JOAT
the real problem lies in Sec. 6 "Armor Piercing Ammunition." THIS SECTION COULD ALLOW ALL CENTERFIRE RIFLE AMMO TO BE BANNED

Whoa......I thought this provision was on the Kennedy amendment to the bill (which thankfully didn't pass), not on the bill itself.

11 posted on 08/04/2005 9:24:43 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: JOAT

Here in CA, ammo will have to be tough to retain serial numbers after firing.


12 posted on 08/04/2005 9:26:02 AM PDT by umgud (Comment removed by poster before moderator could get to it)
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To: Alexander Rubin
Send letters out to senators and congressmen urging revision.

*Smiling*

Exactly why it is posted here my friend....

13 posted on 08/04/2005 9:26:18 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: Travis McGee; SLB; Eaker; Shooter 2.5; ExSoldier

Son of a peach grabbing bunch of backstabbing no good polidiots....ya have to watch em closer than a sugared up 4 year old kid......doom on em all. Worthless bunch of beanconuntin arrrhhhhhggggghhh !

Dang !


14 posted on 08/04/2005 9:26:20 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Mr. Mojo

That was my understanding as well - perhaps someone can confirm this latest?


15 posted on 08/04/2005 9:34:18 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: jdogbearhunter; Xphantasos; da_toolman

Ping...


16 posted on 08/04/2005 9:36:08 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: JOAT
I tried to get the text of the amendment right after the bill passed, and could not find it on Thomas.

I have been wondering. Now, I do not.

The House version must either not contain these provisions (nor allow them to be added) or must redefine specifically what ammo could be considered, eliinating rifle ammo from the mix. Otherwise, the bill will need to be killed.

17 posted on 08/04/2005 9:39:39 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: Smokin' Joe

2nd on that.

Great to get this alert, time to call the Congresscritters.


18 posted on 08/04/2005 9:41:16 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (NRA)
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To: phasma proeliator
perhaps someone can confirm this latest?

LINK

19 posted on 08/04/2005 9:42:42 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: JOAT

He is right even some rimfire ammo will penetrate certain types of body armor


20 posted on 08/04/2005 9:44:11 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Save the whales. Redeem them for valuable prizes.)
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To: JOAT

well sh*t.


21 posted on 08/04/2005 9:47:24 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: phasma proeliator

OKAY, I got it. Read further down where they are to develop testing standards...

SA 1645. Mr. CRAIG proposed an amendment to the bill S. 397, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others; as follows:


On page 13, after line 4, insert the following:

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) Unlawful Acts.--Section 922(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking paragraphs (7) and (8) and inserting the following:

``(7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, unless--

``(A) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;

``(B) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the purpose of exportation; or

``(C) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;

``(8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery--

``(A) is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;

``(B) is for the purpose of exportation; or

``(C) is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;''.

(b) Penalties.--Section 924(c) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(5) Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided under this subsection, or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries armor piercing ammunition, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses armor piercing ammunition, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime or conviction under this section--

``(A) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 15 years; and

``(B) if death results from the use of such ammunition--

``(i) if the killing is murder (as defined in section 1111), be punished by death or sentenced to a term of imprisonment for any term of years or for life; and

``(ii) if the killing is manslaughter (as defined in section 1112), be punished as provided in section 1112.''.

(c) Study and Report.--

(1) STUDY.--The Attorney General shall conduct a study to determine whether a uniform standard for the testing of projectiles against Body Armor is feasible.

(2) ISSUES TO BE STUDIED.--The study conducted under paragraph (1) shall include--

(A) variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or center-fire rifle from which the projectile is fired; and

(B) the amount of powder used to propel the projectile.

(3) REPORT.--Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall submit a report containing the results of the study conducted under this subsection to--

(A) the chairman and ranking member of the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate; and

(B) the chairman and ranking member of the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives.



22 posted on 08/04/2005 9:48:21 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: JOAT

Gun grabbing scum warning bump!


23 posted on 08/04/2005 9:51:40 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: JOAT

TERM LIMITS


24 posted on 08/04/2005 9:54:32 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Save the whales. Redeem them for valuable prizes.)
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To: joesnuffy
TERM LIMITS

At least.

25 posted on 08/04/2005 9:55:50 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
The good news is that the gungrabbing laMecha AG Speedy Gonzalez will have the authority to regulate,...

Somehow, that thought offers me no comfort.

26 posted on 08/04/2005 9:56:39 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: JOAT

probably more paranoia, but worth taking a look at.


27 posted on 08/04/2005 9:57:34 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: Squantos
doom on em all.

Ditto

28 posted on 08/04/2005 9:59:58 AM PDT by Eaker (My Wife Rocks!)
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To: petro45acp
Thanks to Mr. Z and his alert folk!

Indeed. They have done a fine job finding this, and deserve praise from the firearms community.

I wonder how this got by both the NRA and the GOA, but I am daggone glad that the JPFO caught it:

             (1) STUDY- The Attorney General shall conduct a
study to determine whether a uniform standard for the 
testing of projectiles against Body Armor is feasible.

            (2) ISSUES TO BE STUDIED- The study conducted 
under paragraph (1) shall include--

                  (A) variations in performance that are 
related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or 
center-fire rifle from which the projectile is fired; and

                  (B) the amount of powder used to propel 
the projectile.


29 posted on 08/04/2005 10:04:03 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: rwfromkansas
probably more paranoia, but worth taking a look at.

The language is clear in section 6, "ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION" if you follow the links in the original post.

Remember: Once the thing is 'LAW' it is a tool to be exploited by a sHrillary administration in 3 years.

30 posted on 08/04/2005 10:07:29 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: umgud
Here in CA, ammo will have to be tough to retain serial numbers after firing.

That salient point does not matter in the least to the politicians that are pushing the ammo serial number bills. All they care about is that you will be entered into a database for future use when it comes time to search your home for your (formerly) lawful firearms. Your purchase and subsequent registration of the ammo will be the probable cause to get the warrant.

Make no mistake, this isn't about ammo,

IT'S ABOUT GETTING YOUR GUNS!

Even your .22.

31 posted on 08/04/2005 10:07:43 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

"The time to begin turning in our bullets gets closer every day."

Yep

One round at a time


32 posted on 08/04/2005 10:09:19 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: elbucko

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars. (THR)

And yes, it's all about people control.


33 posted on 08/04/2005 10:10:01 AM PDT by umgud (Comment removed by poster before moderator could get to it)
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To: Smokin' Joe

It was my understanding that the dim-wit ammendment (Ted "Backstroke" Kenady's I think) would have outlawed all ammo that would penatrate body armor; ie: all rifle ammo and more powerful pistol ammo.


What was substituted was a Repub ammendment that simply studies the "armor piercing" matter for two years.

It was suposed to be a milk bone thrown to the anti-gun dim-wits.

What I would like to know is why were they given anything when the repubs have a majority?


34 posted on 08/04/2005 10:14:22 AM PDT by El Laton Caliente (NRA Member & GUNSNET.NET Moderator)
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To: El Laton Caliente

Too many RINOs in the Senate, is the answer to that last.


35 posted on 08/04/2005 10:16:08 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (NRA)
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To: All
Remember: Once the thing is 'LAW' it is a tool to be exploited by a sHrillary administration in 3 years.

The timing is interesting too. From section 6:

REPORT.--Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall submit a report containing the results of the study...

So the report is delivered just before the 2008 election run-up. Recommendations can work their way through committees while everyone is distracted with national electioneering. Once the HildaBeast takes office, all the foreplay is over and she can ban evil centerfire 'armor-piercing' ammo, 'for the children.'

No doubt another Columbine-like event will immediately precede this.

Start stockpiling now gentlemen.

36 posted on 08/04/2005 10:16:27 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: All
While we should always have our guard up, this isn't as bad is it sounds.

This doesn't give the AG the power to ban AP ammo. The magic word "DEFINE" is not in there. It just wastes money on a study. It doesn't change what currently is defined as AP ammo.

Let's compare that to the Kennedy Amendment which IS what JPFO is accusing this of being.

---------------------------------------------------

Kennedy Amendment 1615

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To expand the definition of armor piercing ammunition and for other purposes.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be capable or penetrating body armor; or

`(iv) a projectile ror a center-fire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition or the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 or title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the rollowing:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date or enactment or this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated under paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in perrormance that are related to the length of the barrel or the handgun or center-fire rifle rrom which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind or powder used to propel the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

37 posted on 08/04/2005 10:18:55 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Member - NRA, SAF, MGO, SAFR)
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To: All

This does NOT ban any new ammo


38 posted on 08/04/2005 10:21:03 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Member - NRA, SAF, MGO, SAFR)
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To: El Laton Caliente
Until I see some serious repeal of earlier gun control laws, Washington D.C. is just the same train, on the same track, maybe moving a little slower, taking the occasional siding, but still headed the same direction.

It just gets a new paint job from time to time.

We had a law die a natural death. I want some repeals. (NFA, GCA, The '86 ban on new civillian class III, etc.)

39 posted on 08/04/2005 10:21:08 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: Dan from Michigan

150% sure?


40 posted on 08/04/2005 10:24:00 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: JOAT

"...Remember: Once the thing is 'LAW' it is a tool to be exploited by a sHrillary administration in 3 years...."

Spot on sir!

This is why some of the more heinous aspects of the "patriot" act need to sunset, go away.

"working toward that joat moniker also!"

Cheers,
Top sends


41 posted on 08/04/2005 10:24:09 AM PDT by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG!!!!)
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To: umgud
And yes, it's all about people control.

Strategically and respectfully, I disagree. It's about getting elected and using the issue of gun control to receive funds from gun control organizations and receiving endorsements from other organizations that will bring in votes. Then they'll get your guns. Then they will prosecute us because we will have been made felons by ex post facto legislation.

42 posted on 08/04/2005 10:24:48 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: phasma proeliator
I'm 100% sure.

The Craig/Frist Amendment sucks since it's a waste of money, and it may lead to something bad in the future if this study reports lead to more Brady and VPC crying. However, it would take a new law to ban actual ammo.

43 posted on 08/04/2005 10:27:01 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Member - NRA, SAF, MGO, SAFR)
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To: Dan from Michigan

after reading this for the 15th time - I agree with you...

it is a study - but gives no one the explicit right to change definitions.

Thanks... !


44 posted on 08/04/2005 10:27:36 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: Dan from Michigan
While we should always have our guard up, this isn't as bad is it sounds.

I think JPFO is right. The actual text at the Senate is very bad (and it is referring to "Body Armor" when it is discussing "armor piercing", not something more substantial):

             `(7) for any person to manufacture or import 
armor piercing ammunition, unless--

                  `(A) the manufacture of such ammunition is 
for the use of the United States, any department or agency 
of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, 
or political subdivision of a State;

                  `(B) the manufacture of such ammunition is 
for the purpose of exportation; or

                  `(C) the manufacture or importation of 
such ammunition is for the purpose of testing or 
experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney 
General;

            `(8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or 
deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or 
delivery--

                  `(A) is for the use of the United States, 
any department or agency of the United States, any State, or 
any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;

                  `(B) is for the purpose of exportation; or


                  `(C) is for the purpose of testing or 
experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;'.

      (b) Penalties- Section 924(c) of title 18, United 
States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

      `(5) Except to the extent that a greater minimum 
sentence is otherwise provided under this subsection, or by 
any other provision of law, any person who, during and in 
relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime 
(including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime 
that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the 
use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the 
person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, 
uses or carries armor piercing ammunition, or who, in 
furtherance of any such crime, possesses armor piercing 
ammunition, shall, in addition to the punishment provided 
for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime or 
conviction under this section--

            `(A) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 
not less than 15 years; and

            `(B) if death results from the use of such 
ammunition--

                  `(i) if the killing is murder (as defined 
in section 1111), be punished by death or sentenced to a 
term of imprisonment for any term of years or for life; and

                  `(ii) if the killing is manslaughter (as 
defined in section 1112), be punished as provided in section 
1112.'.


45 posted on 08/04/2005 10:27:57 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: Dan from Michigan

Thanks again - my BP is coming back down slowly....


46 posted on 08/04/2005 10:28:25 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
Just wait until (shudder) Hitlery is elected, and Elliot Spitzer is her Attorney General.

He already is trying to put something like a 1,000% tax on ammunition in NY, so you can see what he would do with this law.

47 posted on 08/04/2005 10:30:59 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: snowsislander
for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, unless--

That refers to ammunition already defined in the legal sense as armor piercing ammunition(a type of pistol ammo already banned), not the .30-30(which Ted Kennedy attacked).

It does not refer to any ammo which can theoretically pierce a vest.

48 posted on 08/04/2005 10:31:32 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Member - NRA, SAF, MGO, SAFR)
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To: Dan from Michigan
...to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition or the same caliber.''.

"To be more likely...than standard" is not exactly my idea of a precise legal description to pass or fail the vest test. Sorry, the language is abusable by those with ill intent. The language does not restrain them enough. Think of a Janet Reno with the power of this "definition" to regulate.

49 posted on 08/04/2005 10:36:12 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: phasma proeliator

All it was is a political game played by Craig to marginalize Kennedy's amendment which was defeated. This way, the GOP can say to the soccer mommies that they wern't supporting cop killer bullets.


50 posted on 08/04/2005 10:37:54 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan (Member - NRA, SAF, MGO, SAFR)
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