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To: dead

> Roundup is poison. How can poison kill frogs?

"Previous studies have determined that it is Roundup®’s
surfactant (polyethoxylated tallowamine, or POEA, an
"inert" ingredient added to make the herbicide penetrate
plant leaves) and not the active herbicide (glyphosate)
that is lethal to amphibians."

Sounds like it's not the active ingredient that's the
problem, and a reformulation might fix it.


8 posted on 08/11/2005 9:13:47 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: Boundless

Basically a fancy soap. Other soaps will probably have the same problem.


11 posted on 08/11/2005 9:14:55 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: Boundless
Sounds like it's not the active ingredient that's the problem, and a reformulation might fix it.

Perhaps, but it's the surfactant that is causing the problems. Roundup or any other herbicide isn't of much use if the chemical rolls of the vegetation. The semi-permeable skin of amphibians is likely to be sensitive to any surfactant regardless of a reformulation.

16 posted on 08/11/2005 9:18:06 AM PDT by GreenFreeper (FM me to be added to the Eco-Ping List)
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To: Boundless

A surfactant "wets" the surface allowing the product to stay on the leaves long enough to be absorbed into them and systemically work down to the roots; the surfactant alone allows the first appearance of dying while the root uptake finishes the job.

The larval frogs and the juveniles were the most seriously affected probably because the surfactant causes the skin to bead water and interferes with the natural surface "breathing."

Spraying the frogs and tadpoles or the trap they are in does not truly represent field conditions as the instructions clearly suggest you spray only when rain is not forecast for 24 hours and tells you not to water after use.

Sadly, too many scientists can't leave their biases or their tongues holstered.


53 posted on 08/11/2005 1:14:49 PM PDT by Old Professer (As darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of good; innocence is blind.)
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To: Boundless
"Previous studies have determined that it is Roundup®’s surfactant (polyethoxylated tallowamine, or POEA, an "inert" ingredient added to make the herbicide penetrate plant leaves) and not the active herbicide (glyphosate) that is lethal to amphibians."

I buy the stuff without the surfactant and add a little dish soap. It's cheaper, serves the same function (reduces the surface tension of the water) and it works just as well.

58 posted on 08/11/2005 5:24:45 PM PDT by AnOldCowhand (The west is dead. You may lose a sweetheart, but you will never forget her - Charles Russell)
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