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Man killed by Sunrise police in drug raid had 2 ounces of marijuana
http://www.newsday.com/ ^ | August 10, 2005 | Brian Haas & Kevin Smith

Posted on 08/11/2005 1:12:44 PM PDT by freepatriot32

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To: -YYZ-

One of the method is the compartmentalizing of the sale.

The distributors only keep a minimal amount at the actual point of sale, a secondary person couriers to point of sale when the supply runs low.

It is no different than a dealers standing on the street one holding the cash, the other holding the supply.

I STRONGLY suspect the family knew full well what is going on and the "outrage" is to foist a police brutality lawsuit.


101 posted on 08/11/2005 2:00:23 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: untrained skeptic
It sounds like he ran from the police and grabbed his gun. That's a fatal mistake.

That's also only one side of the story. Convenient that it happens to be the only side able to tell the story.

102 posted on 08/11/2005 2:00:25 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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Comment #103 Removed by Moderator

To: ContemptofCourt
FWIW, 2 oz of pot is a bit much for personal consumption...

One of my friends, whom I visit often, keeps a stash at his home. He usually gets a quarter pound (FOUR OUNCES) to keep the transactions to a minimum, and retain a constant supply. He usually re-ups before one is gone, so sometime has some more...

He has a net worth with 8 figures, and the thought of dealing is ridiculous. His brother is one of the biggest named lawyers in the area... and many of his friends wear badges. He will share a bowl with you, but don't bother to ask to take a sample home!

Like so many things, in life, there are those who can, and those who can't!

104 posted on 08/11/2005 2:00:32 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: 7thOF7th

Now you're talking about my territory. The entire local govenment of Sunrise is notorious for a spectrum ranging from totally incompetent for the non-uniformed desk jockies to wannabe Nazi storm troopers for the Sunrise P.D. If you're a color other than while or of an ethnic origin other than down-home deep south or NYC retired, you are considered fair game for the cross hairs of a SWAT rifle or the quick draw of a dumbass, dull normal who couldn't get a job with the county sheriff or Ft. Lauderdale P.D. If South Florida, Broward County is on your itnerary, avoid Sunrise.


105 posted on 08/11/2005 2:00:55 PM PDT by middie
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To: G32
Oh well. Don't be into drugs or be a terrorist. Easy enough.

And no contraband tobacco either.

106 posted on 08/11/2005 2:01:10 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: freepatriot32
LEGALIZE NOW!
The 1931 law was just another "progressive era" demolition of the Constitution.
It was a replacement for Prohibition without the benefit of an Amendment.
107 posted on 08/11/2005 2:01:44 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: G32

"Well, considering he was a drug dealer felon, yep he gave up his rights."

Maybe you should review the Constitution. That was one of the dumbest comments I have read on FR.


108 posted on 08/11/2005 2:02:03 PM PDT by L98Fiero
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To: 7thOF7th

I wasn't trying to defend the guy's actions, I was merely stating what *I* would do.

This next isn't directed at you, it's a general comment on the thread:

Let's say the cops had intel saying that this guy was dealing a boatload of drugs out of his house. I think that's a fair assumption since the cops generally don't do predawn raids over a couple lousy ounces of pot. We all know that where there are drugs, there are a) guns and b) money.

So, the cops make the decision to raid as opposed to picking him up off the street. Personally, I'd have rather gotten him on the street - less dangerous to all involved. So, the cops raid the guy's house, and he goes for a gun. He gets shot.

In light of what the cops found, vs. what they expected to find, it was a damn shame that he got killed. However (and keep in mind, we don't know what the cops actually expected to find), the raid itself may have been justified based on what they thought would be there. To borrow a phrase from the war, it was an intelligence failure. He was probably dealing - not many 20 somethings just happen to have baggies and postage meters unless they're dealing. He didn't get killed over two stinkin' ounces of dope - he got killed because he went for a gun.




109 posted on 08/11/2005 2:02:08 PM PDT by Terabitten (Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Taylor42

Well I gave it up a few years ago... but know a few people that still probably go through about 4oz every couple of weeks... (and for the record very productive members of society, all of which have held the same job for at least 10 years) just checked with somebody in the know and they said they are paying about $180 for that amount when bought bulk currently...


110 posted on 08/11/2005 2:02:25 PM PDT by AzNASCARfan
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To: 7thOF7th

"civilized behavior," that is a foreign concept to Sunrise P.D.


111 posted on 08/11/2005 2:02:31 PM PDT by middie
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To: HairOfTheDog

"2 ounces is a LOT of pot."

Not really. I've known a number of pot heads over the years. The ones with steady incomes usually bought a quarter pound (4 ounces)at a time because it was cheaper that way.

Two ounces isn't so much that it couldn't reasonably be for personal use. It will fit in two sandwhich baggies.

However, it sound like from the article, that the police has staged a drug buy from the house prior to getting the warrant. So it's kind of a moot point.


112 posted on 08/11/2005 2:02:40 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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Comment #113 Removed by Moderator

To: Cboldt
Or firearms your local law enforcement doesn't want you to have. Or an unapproved addition to your home. Or landscapiung your home owners association doesn't like. Or a car that won't pass some arbitrary inspection criteria...

Oh all the pesky little things that they could potentially kill you for. Must make them all giddy inside.

114 posted on 08/11/2005 2:03:39 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: ContemptofCourt

"FWIW, 2 oz of pot is a bit much for personal consumption..."

Not really, It's the functional equivalent of something like 5-6 cases of beer, not a liquor store.


115 posted on 08/11/2005 2:03:49 PM PDT by ndt
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To: Sir Gawain

Uhhh, nothin' personal, but the 2nd Amendment doesn't mention God. In fact, God's name isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.


116 posted on 08/11/2005 2:04:02 PM PDT by Terabitten (Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: untrained skeptic

since there is a problem with drug dealer turf wars, for all the swat team knew he was acting as if it was another drug gang there to eliminate competition.

Drug dealers do not live in a squeeky clean sanitary legal world. It is a bloody ugly environment.

Even with the intentional omissions of the article, it seems the police acted more than correctly under any standard.


117 posted on 08/11/2005 2:04:15 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Terabitten

picking up a suspect on the street would be too easy. If they did that, they couldn't justify all the neat toys and training they get to buy with taxpayer funds!


118 posted on 08/11/2005 2:04:32 PM PDT by flashbunny (Always remember to bring a towel!)
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To: freepatriot32

May they reap what they have sown.


119 posted on 08/11/2005 2:05:06 PM PDT by Spirited
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To: thoughtomator

Thanks Godwin.


120 posted on 08/11/2005 2:05:23 PM PDT by G32
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To: 68 grunt
The gestapo had the law behind them, too.

Is that what you really think this is? Do you really think there is ~ANY~ reasonable comparison between this great country and Nazi government?

The man was a felon, like it or not, and he reached for a gun when raided by the police. Most people call that suicidal, not heroic.

121 posted on 08/11/2005 2:05:53 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: ContemptofCourt
IMO, keeping more than an oz around is inviting just this kind of trouble.

Dollars to donuts this guy was dealing, which is why there was a warrant involved. Some punk got busted for carrying and turned over his dealer. The judge rubberstamps a warrant (or an assistant does it for him), and off go the cops. That's the system, and I believe in the system.

His invitation to trouble was engaging in illegal, not criminal, activity that involved too many other people. It probably wasn't for personal use. Perhaps he was splitting it with a buddy, or probably doling out eighths and quarters for a lot of "buddies". It's a dumbass thing to do, and easy to pick the wrong people to deal with.

122 posted on 08/11/2005 2:06:13 PM PDT by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
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To: somniferum
"Well 2 ounces CAN be a lot,"

That amount wouldn't carry Nate Newton past Brunch.

123 posted on 08/11/2005 2:06:40 PM PDT by Deguello
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To: freepatriot32
You would think the cops could throw down more than a few ounces.

I'm telling you that if some hooded Muslim terrorist lookalike cop comes busting through my door this old Okiedoc is going for a gun, knife or maybe some toilet paper.
124 posted on 08/11/2005 2:07:02 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: HairOfTheDog

To a libertarian, dying for your stash is the ultimate of heroics. It's a lot like how al qaeda thinks of their martyrs.


125 posted on 08/11/2005 2:07:35 PM PDT by G32
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To: ContemptofCourt
According to testimony I have heard both from local narcotics officers and DEA agents, Mexican pot prices have even gone down further since 2001. Apparently there was a spike in prices for a brief period after 9/11/01, and then prices went back into their downward slide. Today, people pick up pounds of Mexican all the time now in places like Dallas or Tucson for $400 to $800, depending on who they know, and it can even be cheaper with huge volume purchases. I don't live in a border state but I have clients telling me about $50 and $60 dollar ounces. I can remember back in my wild old days in the 80's ounces costing around $100. Of course it had been a lot cheaper than that in years prior. I guess prices went way up in response to increased drug war activity when Reagan came into office and then the suppliers adapted and figured out how to work around the increased law enforcement activity. Now more pot than ever is coming in.
126 posted on 08/11/2005 2:07:39 PM PDT by TKDietz
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To: YOUGOTIT

"We grieve for our officers, too. Taking a human life isn't easy to do,""

I sure the mother will find comfort knowing that killing her son wasn't "easy to do". I hope the officers are telling the truth, but after reading the statements from the neighbors, their story sounds fishy.


127 posted on 08/11/2005 2:07:54 PM PDT by JeffersonRepublic.com (Visit the Jefferson Republic for a conservative news portal.)
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To: G32
No problem, fraulein.
128 posted on 08/11/2005 2:08:03 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Free Michael Graham!)
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To: 7thOF7th
If you are engaged in criminal activity it would make sense that we would be knocking on your door.

What, like jaywalking? Changing lanes without a signal? Knocking is fine by me. Early morning SWAT raid over 2 ounces of weed ending in a fatality is more police state than police work. It would not have taken much effort to cause a far more palatable outcome.

129 posted on 08/11/2005 2:08:13 PM PDT by Buzwardo
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To: longtermmemmory

What you say may be true, but we don't know that. We've also heard that the guy worked two jobs, which is not usual for a dedicated pot dealer. It also doesn't make sense to me that this guy, if he knew that it was the cops coming in, would go for a handgun over a couple of ounces of pot - what good could come of it for him? Adding a couple attempted murder, resisting arrest, etc charges to whatever posession of a couple of oz of pot was going to cost him.

I still believe that no-knock raids like this are overly dangerous to all involved when the only crime involved is drug dealing. Civilians, sometimes innocent, and cops are getting killed just to prevent someone from flushing a bit of some substance down the toilet before the cops can get in.


130 posted on 08/11/2005 2:08:29 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: HairOfTheDog
Do you really think there is ~ANY~ reasonable comparison between this great country and Nazi government?

We are getting there by inches. Even the Weimar Republic didn't die over night. Is that a good thing in your book? That we "aren't quit there yet so things are peachy"?

131 posted on 08/11/2005 2:08:31 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: 7thOF7th
There is no latitude here! ... Nuff said!

Sooo, what have I been saved from here, Public Servant?

The WOD is just busy work, to keep enough JBT's on staff to keep the gov. (of the people, by the people etc.) in control of people that actually think they ought to be able to live as free persons.

We can't actually have people really thinking they are free can we?

132 posted on 08/11/2005 2:09:02 PM PDT by Lester Moore (islam's allah is Satan and is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.)
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To: Junior
Yea it doesn't give you any time to hide or dispose of evidence.

Boo Hoo
133 posted on 08/11/2005 2:09:29 PM PDT by Graycliff (Long haired freaky people, need not apply.)
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To: freepatriot32

Two ounces!

134 posted on 08/11/2005 2:09:52 PM PDT by stinkerpot65
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To: Terabitten

"He was probably dealing - not many 20 somethings just happen to have baggies and postage meters unless they're dealing. He didn't get killed over two stinkin' ounces of dope - he got killed because he went for a gun."

I agree. However, I wonder why they thought "Special Weapons And Tactics" were necessary. Because he had a CCW?


135 posted on 08/11/2005 2:10:24 PM PDT by L98Fiero
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To: Lester Moore

Nope, because then they might stand up for their rights, and we can't have that.


136 posted on 08/11/2005 2:10:34 PM PDT by darkangel82
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To: Graycliff
As for the planting guns s**t, Well that doesn't deserve an answer. What an idiotic comment

Former cops learn their fate in federal court (planted narcs in homes of 2 men)

137 posted on 08/11/2005 2:10:35 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: flashbunny
If they did that, they couldn't justify all the neat toys and training they get to buy with taxpayer funds!

I agree with you there. I'm a federal LEO and I bitch constantly about my agency (and other Fed agencies) wasting taxpayer dollars on stuff they don't need.

138 posted on 08/11/2005 2:11:08 PM PDT by Terabitten (Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Every law in this land is debated ad nauseum by all who want a say in it, without fear of being dragged off to a gulag for insubordination.

It's silly to compare laws approved by the people to laws imposed by dictators. Please. You look silly to people who actually know oppression.
139 posted on 08/11/2005 2:12:12 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Terabitten
I think that's a fair assumption since the cops generally don't do predawn raids over a couple lousy ounces of pot. We all know that where there are drugs, there are a) guns and b) money.

Are you an idiot, or do you just play one on FreeRepublic? I guess that also means that you think all black guys dance good, and if you want to carry a hockey stick, you must be Canadian.

You do sound like a typical LEO, though. Shoot first, sort it all out later. Heaven forbid, even considering that the LEO's could make a mistake...

To borrow a phrase from the war, it was an intelligence failure.

Yep, but it seems to be coming from your direction. My oldest son is a SWAT officer, and has done no knocks. He leads the group, now, and I do not believe he would make this same error. They rely on facts...

140 posted on 08/11/2005 2:12:24 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: 7thOF7th
"Grabbed a gun says it all".

It's better to be in prison unjustly than get killed for making the supreme mistake of grabbing a gun when you are being arrested.

141 posted on 08/11/2005 2:13:05 PM PDT by biblewonk (A house of cards built on Matt 16:18)
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To: longtermmemmory

So you think that 2 oz of MJ deserves the death penalty by cops by being shot ten times?


142 posted on 08/11/2005 2:13:47 PM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: All
Just so that all of the "heads" out there "get it", Why don't you read the news about what happened in Baton Rouge yesterday. Those officers knocked on the door and it got one of them killed by a piece of Cr#p ". If I'm point on any entry and a person fails to comply with my orders and makes motion to grab a weapon, I'll eliminate that threat with lethal force. I'm not going to let anything endanger my team from going home to their wives and children! Guns in the hands of criminals are my reason to practice, practice, practice!
143 posted on 08/11/2005 2:13:59 PM PDT by 7thOF7th (Righteousness is our cause and justice will prevail!)
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To: HairOfTheDog

People voted Hitler into office. What is your point?


144 posted on 08/11/2005 2:14:40 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: L98Fiero
I agree. However, I wonder why they thought "Special Weapons And Tactics" were necessary. Because he had a CCW?

I don't know. I just found out from reading the thread that they'd done a controlled buy from the guy (so now we definitely know he was dealing.) Maybe he'd bragged about "I'll shoot the cops if they ever come for me" or some such. Who knows?

Maybe they wanted to try out a new tactic (maybe some new room clearing technique or something like that) in what they thought would be a *low* threat raid. Who knows?

Like I said earlier, I think I would've been more tempted to snag him in the parking lot right as he left work, but that's just me.

145 posted on 08/11/2005 2:15:41 PM PDT by Terabitten (Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: freepatriot32

Utter stupidity, incompetence, and lack of investigation by lazy-ass showboating SWAT team. Perhaps they were facing budget cuts and needed to put on a show.

The police should be going after real drug dealers. Not kids living with mom, selling nickle bags to friends. I think the cops are too chicken shit to go after the big drug dealers selling meth, crack, coke and heroin


146 posted on 08/11/2005 2:15:53 PM PDT by dennisw ( G_d - ---> Against Amelek for all generations)
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To: Dead Corpse
How about a little info to backup that statement? Just how many peace officers were convicted of planting guns in the last year?
147 posted on 08/11/2005 2:15:58 PM PDT by Graycliff (Long haired freaky people, need not apply.)
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To: andyk

Who says he went for aa gun? the cop. Something isn't right here with police standing there pointing guns at him he went running to the bedroom to get a gun,yeah right.


148 posted on 08/11/2005 2:16:03 PM PDT by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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To: longtermmemmory
as usual the media is cutting out the part of the story which this "victim" was probably either on probation OR had such a long record that a mandatory jail sentence was in the works.

I like how you can just make up a "he deserved it" justification out of your imagination. The other story on the incident says that he'd never been arrested, and the undisputed fact that he had a valid Florida CCW permit would seem to point to the fact that he had a clean record.

149 posted on 08/11/2005 2:16:21 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Terabitten

This has gotten a lot of radio attention down here.


150 posted on 08/11/2005 2:16:26 PM PDT by dennisw ( G_d - ---> Against Amelek for all generations)
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