Posted on 08/12/2005 8:44:29 AM PDT by JRios1968
Convention at LV Hilton can bring out a little Andorian in anyone
It must be difficult to publicly maintain that you are not a geek when, in fact, your T-shirt proclaims as much, and you're standing next to your big sister at a "Star Trek" convention.
Nevertheless, that's what Jim Moorhouse did Thursday, the first day of this year's trekkie gathering at the Las Vegas Hilton: the fourth annual Official Star Trek Convention.
"I like to say I'm destroying the stereotype because I'm cool," said Moorhouse, 38, a public relations rep for a sports league who really did seem like a cool guy despite having "GEEK" printed on the front of his T-shirt.
There were, of course, the requisite pasty-white pudgy guys in floppy sandals and tie-dyed T-shirts all over the Hilton's grounds. Organizers say the convention, which runs through Sunday, will attract about 12,000 "Star Trek" fans.
Fans, most of whom were not pudgy or pasty, said it's no surprise that the convention attracts so many people given that "Star Trek" is the greatest television show in history.
(Excerpt) Read more at reviewjournal.com ...
Two problems.
One he has already landed and is stuck, it is not like he could have relanded elsewhere.
Second, ignoring bureacratic silliness like import licensing and patent owners, ANY other country is going to be even MORE oppresive than the USA.
France? China? Russia? all will be tight fisted with tech.
You're thinking of 'A Human Reaction', which was an implanted hallucination. We're discussing 'Terra Firma' where they show's characters flew down from Moya of their own volition and could leave at any time.
Second, ignoring bureacratic silliness like import licensing and patent owners, ANY other country is going to be even MORE oppresive than the USA.
All Earthly concepts and laws which have no bearing on aliens or their technology.
France? China? Russia? all will be tight fisted with tech.
They don't own the ship and it's attendant technology or get to say to whom it's released.
I don't think the Bush Administration's rhetoric is nearly that simplistic nor ham-handed, though the mainstream media's sound bites sure do try to make it sound that way.
And where does private property rights fall into this? To whom does the ship and it's attendant technology belong, John and his shipmates or Jack and the US Government?
Arguably, the ship belongs to itself since it is both living and sentient. Arguably, just about everything they own, including the ship, is stolen property since they were were legally incarcerated by the Peacekeepers, broke out of jail, stole the ship, and are fugitives. Or do you really want to argue that they all saved their money from a 9-to-5 job and purchased their goods at Blasters-'R'-Us? D'Argo is about the only one there who can claim legitimate ownership of his property.
Seems to me it belongs to John and his shipmates. If he wants to release it to the world, why does Jack and the US Government get to tell him otherwise?
For the same reason why if you managed to build a nuclear bomb in your garage and the government found out about it, they (A) wouldn't let you keep it and (B) certainly wouldn't let you sell it to North Korea, Syria, Iran, Sudan, etc. Should I take this to mean that you are a libertarian to the point that you think private ownership of weapons of mass destruction and the transfer of knowledge of how to build weapons of mass destruction to terrorist states is just fine?
BLASPHEMY!
My favorite eps were the time travel ones. (Jim falling in love with Joan Collins in Depression-era America.)
No worries there...my neighbor is a big trekkie, we watched it a lot when I was younger...I'm just poking fun at it...Voyager fan here
No? How about, "We don't want the next smoking gun to be in the form of a mushroom cloud."?
Sounds pretty simplistic and ham-handed to me.
Arguably, the ship belongs to itself since it is both living and sentient. Arguably, just about everything they own, including the ship, is stolen property since they were were legally incarcerated by the Peacekeepers, broke out of jail, stole the ship, and are fugitives. Or do you really want to argue that they all saved their money from a 9-to-5 job and purchased their goods at Blasters-'R'-Us? D'Argo is about the only one there who can claim legitimate ownership of his property.
Were they going to give this 'stolen' equipment to Earth or merely share the technology that it embodied? I seem to remember they were going to give the technology to Earth.
For the same reason why if you managed to build a nuclear bomb in your garage and the government found out about it, they (A) wouldn't let you keep it and (B) certainly wouldn't let you sell it to North Korea, Syria, Iran, Sudan, etc. Should I take this to mean that you are a libertarian to the point that you think private ownership of weapons of mass destruction and the transfer of knowledge of how to build weapons of mass destruction to terrorist states is just fine?
But, I'm an American citizen, living in the USA, who falls under the jurisdiction of US laws. These are aliens from another world, who do not live in the US, nor are they under US jurisdiction.
Why does the US Government get to tell them what to do with their technology?
Leela "Warrior of the Sevateen"
Damn Straight
Sounds pretty simplistic and ham-handed to me.
The press likes sound bites but that's hardly their only argument. It's also significantly different than, "It's all about survival." And I'd like to see the Bush Administration statements that correspond to, "People don't dream like they used to." Even allowing for the fact that TV shows also operate in the realm of sound bites, John Crichton didn't answer any of those objections and behaved as if they didn't need an answer.
Were they going to give this 'stolen' equipment to Earth or merely share the technology that it embodied? I seem to remember they were going to give the technology to Earth.
The discussion largely concerned "technology" and "access" to the equipment. I posted a link to a transcript so feel free to defend your interpretation with quotes from the show if you want.
But, I'm an American citizen, living in the USA, who falls under the jurisdiction of US laws. These are aliens from another world, who do not live in the US, nor are they under US jurisdiction.
Uh, John Crichton was an American citizen, standing in the USA at the time. Based on your argument, he also falls under the jurisdiction of US laws. You'll notice that most of the pressure was directed at him. His friends were aliens who, while not residents of the United States, were very much in the United States while they were on Earth. Or do you think the US government has no jurisdiction over foreign nationals on American soil?
Why does the US Government get to tell them what to do with their technology?
For the same reason why the US government and the United Nations enforce economic and arms sales sanctions against various nations, including Saddam's Iraq before the invasion and places like Sudan and North Korea. For the same reason the US government punished Toshiba, a Japanese company, for selling multi-axis lathes, developed and made in Japan, to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Giving terrorist nations or enemies of the United States access to technology or weaponry that poses a threat to the United States or its citizens is a threat to the security of the United States and very much its business.
As a practical matter, the United States is limited in what it can actually do about these things by the realities and risks of diplomacy and global politics, which is why we haven't invaded or bombed North Korea. And, as the episode shows, there wasn't very much they could have done to keep the aliens if they wanted to leave. But in the big scheme of things, the United States would likely be better off if the aliens came and left than if the aliens came and told everyone, including terrorist nations, how to create weapons of mass destruction.
Yeah, me too. Have you seen him in the silly Miss Congeniality movies? I liked him best in the first one. He plays the long-time, beloved host of a beauty pageant. Just a crack up.
Politicians also operate in the realm of sound bites.
So, Rice's mushroom cloud sound-bite isn't similar enough to "it's all about survival"? How about:
Secretary Rumsfeld
The New Republic (June 30, 2003)
September 8, 2002
"Imagine a September eleventh with weapons of mass destruction. It's not three thousand – it's tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children."
Or,
Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz
Council on Foreign Relations
January 23, 2003
"I think the short answer, Michael, really is there is a lot of evidence; as the evidence accumulates, our ability to talk about it undoubtedly will grow. But we don't have a lot of time; time is running out, and I repeat: What has clearly not happened is any change of attitude by the Iraqi regime."
Or,
Secretary Powell
Washington, DC
January 27, 2003
"Iraq continues to conceal quantities, vast quantities, of highly lethal material and weapons to deliver it. They could kill thousands upon thousands of men, women and children if Saddam Hussein decides to use these against those men, women and children, or, just as frightening, to provide them to others who might use such weapons."
Or,
President Bush
State of the Union Address,
Washington, DC
January 28, 2003
"Today, the gravest danger in the war on terror, the gravest danger facing America and the world, is outlaw regimes that seek and possess nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. These regimes could use such weapons for blackmail, terror, and mass murder. They could also give or sell those weapons to terrorist allies, who would use them without the least hesitation."
Doesn't sound too significantly different from "It's all about survival" to me. These sound pretty simplistic and ham-handed.
As far as the "People don't dream like they used to" quote, that was Jack's personal opinion expressed during an ordinary conversation with his son that you've taken out of context.
The discussion largely concerned "technology" and "access" to the equipment. I posted a link to a transcript so feel free to defend your interpretation with quotes from the show if you want.
No, the purpose was to allow the US to gain access to the technology embodied in the equipment.
Jack: "Holt says it's bad on the political front. Every nation's demanding equal access to the aliens and all the information we get from them."
John: "Of course they are. We're going to give it to 'em."
Jack: "I don't see why. Why should we give them access to technology they can use against us?"
John: "Cause it's the right thing to do. Wouldn't worry about it, Dad. Subcommittee'll tie it up for years and load it down with a ton of guidelines."
Jack: "Now you're being naive, Son. The best and safest thing to do is keep it to ourselves."
John: "Space travel was your dream to unite mankind. When did that change?"
Jack fiddles with the coffee cup in his hand: "September the eleventh. This isn't the same world you left four years ago son. People don't dream like they used to. It's about survival now."
John: "Who's survival?"
Jack: "Olivia's survival. And Susan and Frank and Bobby's. Imagine them blown up by a suicide bomb or coughing up blood from a poison gas attack. This country is under siege. You just don't understand the global situation."
Or do you think the US government has no jurisdiction over foreign nationals on American soil?
Diplomats regularly get immunity from prosecution while on US soil, don't they? US laws hold no jurisdiction over them.
But in the big scheme of things, the United States would likely be better off if the aliens came and left than if the aliens came and told everyone, including terrorist nations, how to create weapons of mass destruction.
As it turned out, this is exactly what happened. See? Nothing to worry about, after all. Those nasty ol' aliens with their evil techology is safe from Al Qaeda.
Was once governement property. From the episode, we can gather that the government did not demand he surrender it because he left Earth with it still in his possession. The government voluntarily gives up equipment all the time. We can only assume they did the same here.
Shatner's funniest role was as the alien leader, the "Big Giant Head" on the TV series "Third Rock From The Sun".
GROOOVY
*scoffs* It wasn't even the greatest Sci-Fi show in history.
"Captain, why not release the information? VGER requires the information."
Star Trek - the Movie.
Two words...DENNY CRANE!
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