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"The evolution wars" in Time [Time Magazine's cover story]
National Center for Science Education ^ | 11 August 2005 | Staff

Posted on 08/13/2005 3:49:15 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

The cover story of the August 15, 2005, issue of Time magazine is Claudia Wallis's "The evolution wars" -- the first cover story on the creationism/evolution controversy in a major national newsweekly in recent memory.

With "When Bush joined the fray last week, the question grew hotter: Is 'intelligent design' a real science? And should it be taught in schools?" as its subhead, the article, in the space of over 3000 words, reviews the current situation in detail. Highlights of the article include:

While Wallis's article is inevitably not as scientifically detailed as, for example, H. Allen Orr's recent article in The New Yorker, or as politically astute as, for example, Chris Mooney's recent article in The American Prospect, overall it accomplishes the important goal of informing the general reader that antievolutionism -- whether it takes the form of creation science, "intelligent design," or calls to "teach the controversy" -- is scientifically unwarranted, pedagogically irresponsible, and constitutionally problematic.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crevolist; darwinschmarwin; headinsand; scienceeducation; timemag; timemagazine
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

I guess it's his turn in the barrel. He does seem to enjoy it, though.


281 posted on 08/15/2005 6:55:07 AM PDT by js1138 (Science has it all: the fun of being still, paying attention, writing down numbers...)
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To: general_re
So basically, you believe that every single one of these . . . is personally assembled by God Himself.

Basically that is correct. The same goes for those cases where molecules behave with consistency, and the periodic table of elements remains consistent, and the law of gravity behaves with a constancy allowing for the sustenance of life, etc. God not only created all things, visible and invisible, but He also sustains them to this very moment. How He does so is a matter for science to explore, and it has done so for several millennia.

What do you have that better explains the organization and consistency of matter? Whatever it is does not constitute science, but a personal belief, or philosophy, on your part.

282 posted on 08/15/2005 6:56:31 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: narby
I'm sure they can do their work by rote drill someone taught them.

Most people in any technical field are not theorists. It is possible to manipulate lab equipment that someone eles designed, based on someone else's theories, without "believing" the theory, but no biologist is going to contribute to theory without accepting evolution. There are, of course, countless variations on the mechanism of evolution, and "survival of the fittest" is just a cartoon version of natural selection, but the large thoughts are not in play.

283 posted on 08/15/2005 7:01:02 AM PDT by js1138 (Science has it all: the fun of being still, paying attention, writing down numbers...)
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To: general_re

Troll? Or lunatic? I report, you decide.


284 posted on 08/15/2005 7:13:49 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: js1138
I could elaborate, but thread decorum prohibits.

You might be a good candidate for the Darwin Central diplomatic corps.

285 posted on 08/15/2005 7:14:06 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: KMJames
I don't see how any opinion on the history of the DNA makes any difference to the outcome.

It's the fact that there is a history that matters. Also, one can use the history as an indicator of the future even if not a predictor.

286 posted on 08/15/2005 7:43:41 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

"Eyewitness testimony" is one of the main dogmas of the creationists, sometimes referred to as the "Johnny Cochran Theory" of biology.


287 posted on 08/15/2005 7:45:13 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: general_re

But each snowflake has a different isotopic composition.


288 posted on 08/15/2005 7:45:46 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: WhiteKnight

The theory of evolution is in a nutshell the theory that the variation of allele frequencies in the genomes of organisms varies with time, and that these variations can give rise to new species of organisms. This theory is most certainly testable, especially with modern DNA sequencing technology. We can actually look at organisms' genomes and determine which alleles are present. We can therefore monitor the allele frequencies in a given organism's genome over time and test to see if these frequencies do indeed change with time (they do). We can also look at cases where there are two similar organisms that are members of distinct species. Evolutionary theory would predict that these two organisms should have VERY similar genomes (indeed, they do.) We can and have also produced new species of organisms in lab experiments by the very process of selecting for the appropriate variants of the parent species, thus producing a change in allele frequencies which leads to the new species. Therefore, the theory of evolution is indeed testable, and furthermore stands up well to these tests I have described and many more as well. There are potential observations that could falsify evolution. (Precambrian rabbits, non-DNA based organisms, etc.) What potential observations could possibly falsify ID?


289 posted on 08/15/2005 7:56:17 AM PDT by stremba
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To: Fester Chugabrew
"And to think the better part of evolutionism doesn't entail the least bit of direct observation, yet you consider it to be "science." Keep drinking that kool-aid!"

What in the world makes you think 'direct' observation is needed before a field of study can be considered science?

290 posted on 08/15/2005 9:35:19 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
"You know more about it than I do. Apparently you take it more seriously, too. I would expect as much from one who subscribes to the evolutionist notions that all life is derived from a common ancestor and matter is able to organize itself apart from an intelligent agent.

I may know more about it than you do because I've had to debunk it a few times. However your acknowledged lack of knowledge about astrology reinforces the inappropriateness of your comparison. If you know nothing about what you are comparing, then your comparison is invalid.

291 posted on 08/15/2005 9:40:15 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: js1138
Would you be upset if they placed Scientology on an equal footing with ID?

Come on. I would presume you know enough about the two to know you are talking about apples and oranges.

If you DON'T know, then perhaps you should learn something about them.

292 posted on 08/15/2005 9:51:37 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
"IMO, atomic theory has far more veracity than evolutionsm, simply due to the fact that it works with ongoing phenomena upon which it is able to operate with further observation and testing.

What is observed in atomic theory, which by the way is part of quantum theory, is the effect of the structure of the atom. There is no direct observation made.

"As such I do consider it to be science. Atomic theory, like the discipline of biology, is uncovering the grand design God placed into His creation and sustains to this very moment. In case you haven't noticed, 4.5 billion years is water over the dam."

Glad you acknowledge the age of the Earth.

"The farthest back written records of history go - our only hope for eyewitness testimony - is several millenia. "

'Eyewitness testimony' as recorded millenia after the putative fact. 'Eyewitness testimony' that can be and has been shown inaccurate. 'Eyewitness testimony', the origin of which has indeterminate credibility.

293 posted on 08/15/2005 10:01:15 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp; Fester Chugabrew
"The farthest back written records of history go - our only hope for eyewitness testimony - is several millenia. "
(FC)

'Eyewitness testimony' as recorded millenia after the putative fact. 'Eyewitness testimony' that can be and has been shown inaccurate. 'Eyewitness testimony', the origin of which has indeterminate credibility.
(B-Sharp)


Just like the eyewitness testimony of the Bible. Uncle Fester has no trouble though accepting THAT unquestioningly.
Very telling
294 posted on 08/15/2005 10:05:49 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: b_sharp
What in the world makes you think 'direct' observation is needed before a field of study can be considered science?

Direct observation is simply a way of adding veracity to scientific method and expression. What in the world makes you think ID is less scientific than any other theory if direct observation is left out of the equation? I consider astrology to be scientific insofar as it entails direct observation. Evolutonism does not enjoy as much.

You want to call resonable conjecture over unobserved, unrecorded events "science?" Fine. Then shut your yap when creationism comes along and wants to do the same thing.

295 posted on 08/15/2005 10:06:17 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: RobbyS
"Sorry, but do you know that Darwin's first cousin, a famous man in his own right, originated eugenics and Darwin's son was president of the eugenics society? The caution is that people may draw false inferences from true statements"

We should reject evolution based on this? Eugenics has been around a lot longer than Darwinism has been.

296 posted on 08/15/2005 10:07:40 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
"I consider astrology to be scientific insofar as it entails direct observation."

For the umpteenth time, what *direct observation* will support or falsify astrology?

Not surprising that you think astrology is scientific.
297 posted on 08/15/2005 10:12:05 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Undoubtedly, I agree that knowledge of history can be useful for present and future understanding and direction, HOWEVER, I fail to see how evolution is at all "knowable" since the "mechanism of change" is as great and multifaceted as all of existence itself.

Philosophically it seems that we can only know/understand evolution when we are able to know/understand the universe. Why not just eliminate the redundant evolution powder keg and set about understanding the existing cosmos - that alone should take an eternity - and I think would yield greater benefits to mankind.


298 posted on 08/15/2005 10:13:38 AM PDT by KMJames
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To: b_sharp
There is no direct observation made.

Inasmuch as atomic theory makes use of materials and phenomena presently at hand it is indeed making use of direct observation.

Eyewitness testimony is by no means infallible, but it sure beats none at all. A 4.5 billion year old earth does not enjoy as much, and as such it not a factor in science, but a factor in a philosophy certain folks choose to follow.

Too bad. So sad. Take your philosphy down the hall and preach it.

299 posted on 08/15/2005 10:14:10 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: PatrickHenry

300 posted on 08/15/2005 10:14:20 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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