Posted on 08/14/2005 1:25:44 PM PDT by adam_az
Edited on 08/14/2005 1:28:27 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
"With the Israeli settlers behind the Israeli Wall, any Palestinian rocket or mortar attack can be met with overwhelming Israeli air power without having to worry about the Israeli settlers that are currently playing the role of "Human Shields" for the Palestinians."
This part of the strategic equation has not changed by removing Jews from Gaza. That Israel has not attacked Gaza by air has nothing to do with the intermingling of populations. There are no Jews acting as "human shields." An air attack was as feasible before as it will be after evacuation of Jews from Gaza.
In Jenin in Operation Defensive Shield, IDF went door to door to seek out terrorists rather than strike overhead and kill large numbers of civilians even though at any point they could have used air power. Even with this extraordinary care which put Israeli soldiers at risk, even though soldiers died in boobytraps and ambushes, Israel held to this policy. But that did not stop the world from declaring a fake massacre and condemning Israel in all the media.
The problem of air strikes are humanitarian concerns and PR concerns. Your analogy to Fallujah is apt. You see it as a great sucess. I don't. The success would have been far greater if the US had not allowed any and all to exit prior to going in. How many terrorists do you think left to recoup and fight another day? But again not allowing "civilians" to exit was considered "unnaceptable," and this after declining to deal with Fallujah in April 2004 when we should have done so to save our troops and innocent Iraqis.
Your other points about marshalling resources and defensible borders are good ones. But only if PM Sharon follows through and takes a hard line against world and US pressures to retreat further. Strategically the West Bank is a whole different matter than Gaza.
At this point the question is - what's next?
.................
Blue, White, and Orange
As Israel begins its great showdown over the Jewish retreat from Gaza and the West Bank, let us pause to say that this newspaper believes in a large Israel. These columns have come over the years to value the principles that the Zionist prophet Vladimir Jabotinsky stood for when he called for Jewish sovereignty on both sides of the Jordan. If this were a just world, the ones in retreat would be the ones who have rejected peace, the Palestinian Arabs.
The real world, however, is not always just, and even those with a just cause cannot always have all that is justly theirs - or have it when they want it. This is where the craft of statesmanship comes in: how and where to draw the lines, how and when to make one's stand, when to fight, when to negotiate, when to retreat. And one of the things that Ariel Sharon surely knows as he contemplates the century and more since Herzl convened the first Zionist Congress is that it is a century peopled with Jewish giants.
And every one of them made compromises. To read Herzl's diaries is to read of a statesman's inner struggles that were almost psychiatric in their intensity, as the founder of political Zionism wrestled over tactics and strategies in quest of the dream of the redemption of the Jews in a Jewish state in the land of Israel. And we are neither frightened nor discouraged by the apocalyptic rhetoric coming out the contending factions within the Jewish state.
On the contrary, we are rather encouraged by it. The Orange camp, full of idealists whom we admire, is ensuring something extremely important. This retreat should not be permitted to be made easily, even if a Jewish democracy has decided, as it has, that it needs to be made. It is not certain that the lines to which Israel is withdrawing - or as Mr. Sharon might put it, the lines that Israel is straightening - will become permanent, but they might. The stakes are, therefore, incredibly large.
'snip'
http://www.nysun.com/article/18499
It's not an irony at all- the Abarbanel-the Great Jewish Commentator,Royal Advisor to King Fernidand and Queen Isabella of Spain specifically ASKED for Tisha B'AV for the day of expulsion so that Jews should know that it wasn't The Royalty that did it(of course they ACTUALLY did it) but still it was an act of G-D extending from all the bad things that have happended over the ages.
Gadid: Settlers blocking entrance
A media bus was attacked with burning tires and its tires were spiked.
Police arrest three far-rightists trying to enter Temple Mount
Two of these were notorious Kach activist Itamar Ben-Gvir, and Avigdor Askin, who took part in a 1995 "Pulsa Denura" calling for the death of Rabin. An attack on Temple Mount is one of Shin Bet's worst-case scenarios.
-Eric
How many dead people?
WOW
They engaged in some mindless ceremony for theatrical effect and they are notorious.
The savages you champion live and breath hatred starting with their mother's milk.
Is there a bigger hypocrite then you on FreeRepublic?
They were heroes to the World.
They protested a stolen election.
That is what they are protesting in Israel.
They voted for the Right. They got an appeasing Left.
None, and let's hope it stays that way. There weren't any at Yamit.
-Eric
They engaged in some mindless ceremony for theatrical effect and they are notorious.Ben-Gvir is notorious because he is the public face of a banned racist organization that even the US State Department considers to be terrorists.
-Eric
And Hamas a 99.999% peaceful organization will soon have an unperturbed base in Gaza by your desire.
Hypocrite.
And Hamas a 99.999% peaceful organization will soon have an unperturbed base in Gaza by your desire.
Hypocrite.
Friend from Sweden supports settlers [YNET]
Israel sympathizer Nils Peter Hansen shocked by plans to remove Jews from home, arrives in northern West Bank settlement of Sa-Nur, slated for evacuation
By Ahiya Raved
Among the pullout foes staying in the northern West Bank community of Sa-Nur, one can find an unusual guest: Nils Peter Hansen, 54, a civil aviator who made his way from Sweden to Israel in order to support the settlers.
“My wife told me, you need to travel to the Holy Land. Jews are being expelled and we need to do something, so I came,” he said.
Notably, Hansen is not Jewish. He is a believing Christian who views himself as a genuine friend of the Jewish nation. He holds Danish citizenship, but currently lives in a small community in central Sweden.
Hansen says he is particularly shocked by the thought Jews are again being expelled while the world remains silent.
“We’ve seen expulsion of Jews before, and we know how it ended,” he says. “This time I felt I must come and sit with my brothers, here in Israel.”
Hansen has visited Israel no less than 24 times, has toured holy sites and recently visited Gush Katif and Northern Samaria.
"The last time we were here it was Jerusalem Day," he said. "We traveled with a group of 20 people to Gush Katif, and afterwards I went to Northern Samaria on my own."
Hoping for an additional Scandinavian 'airlift'
Hansen said he felt blessed at being invited to the region. After he returned home, he continued to think about how he could help his settler friends. Furthermore, the news from Israel regarding the upcoming evacuation concerned him.
"I said to myself, there is nothing more I can do here. Let's go to Israel where we can do something," he said.
Hansen originally requested to enter Gush Katif, but was refused access as Gaza was declared a closed zone open only to Gush residents.
He then turned to the West Bank, which was not yet closed off.
Hansen has spent the past five days sleeping in a tent in the Sa-Nur settlement, talking to local residents.
"For the past 20 years we have been committed to Israel," he said. "I have many friends here, in the Bracha and Alei settlements. All the members of my group are praying to God that a miracle will occur and the expulsion will be canceled."
Sa-Nur residents have openly welcomed their visitor and are hoping for an "airlift" of more Scandinavian friends.
(IsraelNN.com) The Palestinian Authority has raised a new demand, now that its leaders have seen signs that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon seriously intends to withdraw the Jews from Gaza: the wholesale release of imprisoned terrorists who are from Gaza.
Speaking with Agence France Presse, the PA official assigned to prisoners' affairs, Sufyan Abu Zaidah said, "The Palestinian Authority officially asked Israel to release 650 prisoners from the Gaza Strip who were arrested by the Israelis during the years of the occupation." Abu Zaidah linked the Gaza withdrawal to the proposed prisoner release, saying that the former should be a stepping stone to the latter.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87782
(IsraelNN.com) According to internet email lists and Israeli online forums, five IDF battalion commanders have warned of mass refusal by soldiers to carry out duties related to the Gaza-Samaria Disengagement Plan.
Allegedly written last week to Defense Minister Sha'ul Mofaz and Chief of Staff Dan Halutz, and leaked to non-mass-media forums, the letter reveals a phenomenon called "last minute refusal". Five lieutenant colonels wrote that possibly up to half of the soldiers, including officers, assigned to Disengagement duties intend to disclose their objection to the expulsion of Jews from Gaza and Samaria on the day they are ordered to carry out the Disengagement mission.
The planned "surprise" refusals, according to the letter, have been made explicit in private conversations. The five officers complain to the chief of staff and the defense minister that senior officers are ignoring the growing phenomenon. The letter includes a warning to that the battalion commanders fear a mutiny in the ranks.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87775
(IsraelNN.com) 15 soldiers of the Maintenance Corps refused today to get on a bus that was to take them south, refusing to take part in the uprooting of the Jewish communities of Gaza. Seven of the soldiers were sentenced in lighting field trials to 21 days in jail, while the remaining eight are still being questioned by military police.
Similarly, a female soldier from the Communications Corps refused to take part in operations related to the implementation of the Disengagement Plan. She is now being tried for insubordination.
A soldier from the elite Givati Brigade was declared AWOL on Saturday and sentenced to 35 days in prison; he was also charged with having entered Gush Katif without a permit.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87787
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More "Last Minute Refusals" - Golani, Air Force, Reconnaissance
17:45 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Six soldiers of the Golani Brigade were declared AWOL by their commander. The six announced that they refused to take part in blocking the way of Jews making their way to Gush Katif, in the perimeter ring outside of the Gaza area. Other Golani soldiers have been reassigned to alternate missions on the Golan Heights, on Israel's northern border.
A soldier in the air force left his unit and attempted to enter Gush Katif. He was halted at a checkpoint and arrested. His commanders are expected to sentence him in coming days. Many soldiers in the air force have been assigned to Disengagement duties due to their high motivation to obey orders so that they don't lose their place in the elite air force courses for which they have been training.
An officer cadet in the Egoz reconnaissance unit refused to take part in sealing off northern Samaria, a support role for the actual expulsion of the Samaria Jews. He was sentenced to 28 days in jail.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87789
(IsraelNN.com) Approximately 500 Likud party Central Committee members are calling on the party ministers to resign their posts in Ariel Sharon's government. The Likud loyalists warned the ministers that Sharon was using them, and that they would have collective responsibility for any action the government takes.
The chairman of the regional Likud branches in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, Shevach Stern, said, "They must remember that they are part of a bridge for Sharon to continue his rule until such time as he finds another political framework within which to compete."
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87791
Well, we knew the Pals would behave with their usual class and decorum (NOT). A pox on them, and especially their "leaders."
The Palestinian Authority will have to choose between battling Hammas or seeing Gaza reduced to a pile of rubble by the Israeli Air Force.
First of all, thank you for both your replies. Napoleon screwed up, but the again, he's Napoleon...Very well thought out replies, except for one problem:
Israel will not be "allowed" to retaliate. If they had been, the Israeli AF would have already turned "Palestine" into rubble. No, Hamas and the PLO (insert names of other murdering scum here)will step up the attacks knowing that the world community will admonish Israel to negotiate rather than retaliate. I'm sorry, but I don't see Sharon as the type of leader to tell the rest of the world to STFU.
Here's some of the garbage I was describing.
"Because the Israeli government is sane, that's why not."
If it was sane, it wouldn't be forcing Jews from their homes and the dead from their graves.
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