Gaza Disengagement/Expulsion Live Thread

FR live thread | 7/14/2005 | none

[adam_az]

Live thread for posting breaking news about the Gaza Explulsion which is set to begin within the hour...

[johnb838]

Somebody pointed out this morning that even though they know they have to go they hope to make it so traumatic that the goobernment will not have the belly to try it again in Judea and Samaria. Imagine! Jews giving up Judea. And I hear it tossed off so casually on the news. Samaria is one thing, but JUDEA!

[sheik yerbouty]

Sane? I think not. In any case, if the Jews in Israel have no rights that the Arabs are bound to respect, it is axiomatic that these Arabs have no rights the Jews are bound to respect. Bi la kaifa!('nuff said!)

[johnb838]

Benedict Arnold was once one of Washington's favorite officers,

Benedict Arnold was an American Hero, more popular than Washington. That's what I think when people issue disclaimers about Jimmy Carter or Wesley Clark or anybody having been in the military. Military service does not excuse later treachery.

[johnb838]

When does the part where the palis crack down on terror attacks take effect?

[agrace]

Good point.

However, I thought they were all Irgun on board.

[Cinnamon Girl]

Just as soon as we give them guns and allow them to police their own areas. Oops, we already did that.

If anyone can think of what one positive thing will result from giving up Gaza, please share it here.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Yes, I read that, and the article made some very good points. The pictures of that "wasteland" blooming with gardens, and showing well maintained neighborhoods, is sad. Sad because pictures of the same areas, say 2 years down the road, will show a ghetto where nothing grows.

Mr. Sharon should remember Chamberlain. For that matter he should read up on the Vichy government, and Quisling.

[Reborn]

Here is more info on that.

Don't Invoke the Altalena

[Piranha]

Why are you more troubled by Israel giving up Judea than Samaria? As far as I know, both are equally significant in Jewish history, and both abut major population centers in pre-1967 Israel.

[johnb838]

The only thing I can think of is that it will be possible to bomb the crap out of them without killing Israelis or damaging their property. That's about it.

[Piranha]

If anyone can think of what one positive thing will result from giving up Gaza, please share it here.

The relocation of idealistic, enterprising, self-sufficient Israelis into pre-1967 Israel may serve to motivate the jaded sophisticates of Tel-Aviv and the post-Zionists of Haifa into remembering why Israel was created and what it is capable of.

The forced destruction of Gaza Jewry can motivate the Jews of the West Bank to embark on a PR campaign to demonstrate to the rest of Israel that the Israelis who live in the West Bank are Israelis, that all are responsible for one-another and that they shojld not be dehumanized as "settlers" living in the "territories".

All of this having been said, I think that the surrender of Gaza is the worst catastrophe to happen in the history of Israel. It is the end result of relocating Yassir Arafat from Tunis to Israel at the beginning of the Oslo process.

[johnb838]

The only thing I can think of is that it will be possible to bomb the crap out of them without killing Israelis or damaging their property. That's about it.

[Cinnamon Girl]

Israel could do that right now if they wanted to.

[Reborn]

This morning it was all over the news that MOVING VANS were pouring out of Gush Katif, as if zillions were moving. MSM=BARF

FROM WND'S JERUSALEM BUREAU
Gaza residents ignore moving trucks
Jewish homeowners accuse army of 'psychological warfare'

Posted: August 15, 2005
11:49 a.m. Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza – Several empty moving trucks have been driving around Gaza's Gush Katif slate of Jewish communities today and parking outside homes even though the occupants are not moving.

Residents here are accusing the military of attempting to make it appear as if they are leaving, while the army claims it's just trying to help.

The trucks, tugging large containers, have been wandering in and out of Katif's communities since the morning.

Residents of some towns, including Neve Dekalim, the largest Katif neighborhood, temporarily blockaded community entrances to keep out moving vans and military vehicles.

Moving trucks enter Neve Dekalim (photo: WND)

Residents here have until tomorrow evening to depart on their own accord, or the army and police will attempt to remove them forcibly.

According to Debbie Roson, a senior Katif spokeswoman, as of today, most communities still are full. She said there were isolated settlements, such as Rafiah Yam on the Egyptian border, that opted several months ago for Israeli government relocation programs.

A few residents have departed from some of the smaller farming communities the past 24 hours, Rosen said, but most of the larger communities, including Dekalim, are almost entirely full. Some neighborhoods are overpopulated with thousands of protesters here to try to halt the evacuation.

Still, dozens of moving trucks could be seen today parked outside homes and meandering around neighborhoods. In Dekalim, a line of trucks were parked at the community entrance for several hours and then dispersed alongside private homes.

The drivers told WND they were contracted by the army to remain inside Katif today and tomorrow. Several drivers opened the hatches on their trucks to show the insides were empty.

Residents accused the army of engaging in psychological warfare and of trying to bait journalists into reporting Katif communities were leaving.

"Do you see people moving their belongings into trucks anywhere?" asked Dekalim resident Ruth Stein. "It's all for the cameras."

Katif resident Eitan Hader said, "It's meant to look really discouraging. It makes others think their neighbors are moving out even though they aren't."

A spokesman for the Southern District Command, the police unit overseeing the withdrawal, said the trucks have been made available in case residents needed them. He said they were not meant to create any sort of impression.

But Dekalim resident Miriam Shar said she doesn't believe it.

"Since when has the government helped us?" she asked. "They have been taking all measures to actually make our lives bad. These trucks aren't here for help. It's psychological warfare pure and simple."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45780

[Reborn]

Here is another EXCELLENT Website to check out for news IN GUSH KATIF. This guy is THERE. I heard him this morning on A7. Great guy! Check it out:

http://www.israelreporter.com/

[agrace]

Great link, thanks for posting.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Well I said Moishe Dayan, but he apparently was another appeaser. So I'm trying to remember who was the Israeli leader who wouldn't put up with this, besides Gold Meir.

[Natty Boh III]

One of the things that often gets overlooked in these discussions is that Gaza is not like the West Bank. Not only is Gaza much more loosely associated with Jewish history than the West Bank, but Gaza is a just an out-and-out sh!thole. In fact, Israel tried to lump Gaza into the Camp David Accords of 1979, but Egypt refused to take it back (Egypt occupied Gaza from 1948-1967). I myself have visited Gaza (well Rafah) back in the kumbaya/hug-a-Pali days of 1994, and I can confirm that even pre-Intifada II, the place was packed to the brim with hostile Arabs living in absolute squalor. So what are the advantage of cutting and running?

1) Shorter defense lines
2) Getting rid of that crappy place

And that's about it.

[Sabramerican]

I misunderstood your question. I thought you asked who gave away the Temple Mount.

Shamir, Begin and Levi Eshkol are probably the PM's who capitulated the least to outside pressure although they did some. The US has been relentless- with some minor pauses- in pressuring Israel since the 50's.

Look where it's gotten both countries.

[Reborn]

What are you talking about? Do you mean Gaza as in the Gush? The area in question right now where the Settlers are? Or are you speaking of the area where the Arabs are? If you're speaking of where the Settlers are, then do me a big favor and reread the entire thread here. There is an excellent article posted that tells the TRUTH about GAZA, given to the Tribe of Judah, and its history. There are also pics showing that Gush Katif is a beautiful area, with beautiful homes, yards full of flowers, and acres of greenhouses. Hope that helps. :-)