Gaza Disengagement/Expulsion Live Thread

FR live thread | 7/14/2005 | none

[adam_az]

Live thread for posting breaking news about the Gaza Explulsion which is set to begin within the hour...

[Reborn]

MK Eitam: Sharon is a Coward
21:38 Aug 15, '05 / 10 Av 5765

(IsraelNN.com) MK Effie Eitam (Religious Zionist Renewal Party, Hit’chabrut) did not make an effort to hide his anger on Monday afternoon.

Speaking to Israel Television, the opposition MK and recent Gush Katif resident referred to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon as a coward, explaining that when he served in the army, a commander led his troops after making a major decision and he did not stand in the shadows while subordinates complied with directives.

Eitam, a retired brigadier-general had harsh words for Sharon and his cabinet, targeting Likud Ministers Livnat, Naveh, Katz and Hanegbi, who he referred to as the “fictitious opponents of the disengagement.”

Eitam also targeted Likud MK Binyamin Netanyahu, referring to him as “those who are in the United States raising funds.” Netanyahu submitted his letter of resignation eight days ago, but it was little more than theatrics since he was well-aware the time had passed to stop the expulsion.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=87800

[TheSpottedOwl]

Dayan gave the keys to the Temple Mount to the Islamik Wakf.

Someone else told me that, too. Nice guy...

Let me rephrase this: who do Israeli's consider their greatest hero?

[TheSpottedOwl]

After being corrected about Moshe Dayan, David Ben Gurion is his/her second choice about who would not tolerate this for one minute. I agree - he probably wouldn't. Then again I never would have thought Sharon would go this way either.

My memory is shot, and I'm having trouble keeping up with Amercian politics these days. I rephrased my question to Adam_az just now, and I'm asking: who do the Israeli's consider their greatest hero?

So am I right about Ben Gurion?

[Natty Boh III]

Hi Reborn,

I didn't say that Gaza had no place in Jewish history, I said that it had a much looser connection than the towns of the West Bank. In fact, I always thought that most of Gaza was Philistine territory.

And let me be clear -- I'm not defending Sharon's decision to evacuate. I have no idea whether it will improve Israel's security or whether it will just provide a base for terrorists. I'm simply saying that Gaza is an awful place that many Israeli leaders never wanted to occupy in the first place. The focus of the debate should be on whether or not this move improves Israel's security and not the fiction of Gaza as a little paradise, because anyone who has ever lived in Israel can tell you that it's not.

[GladesGuru]

NOT TRUE! The place being "given back" is now a very nice place and quire prosperous. Or it was until Sharon made his dirty deal to cover up for his other dirty deeds.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Don't Invoke the Altalena

Menechem Begin? Ah, I give up : (

[agrace]

I've got one - King David? :)

[Jrabbit]

So, why were the people allowed to live there in the first place? A woman just interviewed on Fox has lived in her home for 29 years. I'll admit that I'm totally confused....if it so dangerous to live there, why are people living there?

[Cinnamon Girl]

You can watch the documentary "A Stab in the Heart" on line. It explains how it is a strategically bad move to give Gaza to the PA because they will now have a deep port to bring in weapons and they will that have that much shorter to fire their rockets into Israeli towns.

[Reborn]

Let me give you a little bit of an idea of why they live there. Most of the folks are FARMERS. Aaron Klein from WND spoke of this the other day. They are farmers, and they supply Europe with flowers, they supply Israel with organic produce. There are facts and figures on this. The State of Israel is cutting off their arm to destroy the $$$ that has been flowing in for the Gush Katif produce.
These Settlers have seen miracle after miracle. So while it is dangerous (because of the terrorists) to live there, God has blessed it in their hands. I read an article not to long ago at Y'net about how many Palestinians were praying to allah like crazy for him to not let this plan of Sharon's go through because they are employed by the Gush Katif farmers, and the LOVE IT!!! Any way that you look at it this plan sucks.

[Txsleuth]

Fox had the UN rep. from Israel on, and he said that those 8,500 people surrouded by millions of Palestinians, in Gaza, were ONLY "allowed" to live there, because they had Israeli military guarding them...

therefore, it will "be better" for them to move to a settlement that they will be safe in "without having to have a ring of military around them"...which I consider a DREAM...wherever Jews are in Israel, they will need military around them...

[Reborn]

Um, it has been awhile perhaps since you've been there. Or maybe you went to parts that were still too new, and not yet developed? I've got a friend who was their, and the pics he brought back were incredible. I wish I lived there. Beautiful home, green lawns with flowering fruit trees, and other growing things, pools, and the sea. Ah, sure beats the heck out of the "lean-to" that I'm living in now, sigh. ;-)

[Reborn]

Netanyahu: Pullout 'double tragedy'
8/15/05

Former Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's speech to the nation Monday, saying the Gaza disengagement plan a "double tragedy."

"In Yamit, at least we got something in return. Here, we are giving something for nothing, and we'll get terrorism in return," he said, referring to Israel's 1982 evacuation of the Sinai as part of a peace treaty with Egypt. (Ynetnews)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3127882,00.html

[quantfive]

"Yes, I see eventually both sides lay down their arms and live in peace. But I think it will take at least another generation. People have long memories and will hardly forget the indiscriminate killing of loved ones by both sides."

It seems the bible has been accurate in prophetic fulfillment in regards to Israel. If the rest is true and I assume it is, Israel will begin to rebuild the second temple soon and then they will be attacked from all sides from Gog and Megog, the tribes of Tubal. In other words, Russia, Iran and a few others... After this historic battle which the bible says melts skin of mens faces, Israel will clean up the bones for several months and then become a regional super-power.

[johnb838]

Judea is the land of Judah, home of the Judah-ites, the Jews. Samaria became a foreign land, at war with Judah. Read the book of Kings and Chronicles, it outlines the wars between Judah and Israel. It will give you insight into the New Testament and why Samaritans were often treated with contempt.

[Reborn]

IS "DISENGAGEMENT" PROMOTING SECURITY, ECONOMY AND DEMOCRACY?
by Yoram Ettinger

1. CONTINUED DECLINE IN ISRAELI PUBLIC SUPPORT OF "DISENGAGEMENT". According to August 12, 2005 Dialogue Polling, commissioned by the Dovish daily, Ha'aretz, 45% support "Disengagement", down from 55% two months ago, in spite of the total support for "disengagement" by Israel's media.

2. ONE HALF OF ISRAEL'S DEFENSE BUDGET. The Head of Bank of Israel (Israel's Fed.), Prof. Stanley Fisher, cautions that the cost of "disengagement" will be significantly higher than appropriated, and will probably preclude the achievement of 2006 economic goals (Ma'ariv, August 15, 2005). Adding Fisher's assessment to the cost of replacing the water resources in northern Samaria, one reaches - at least - $3.5BN. It amounts to one half of Israel's defense budget.

3. GOVERNMENT EXPECTS MORE MISSILES AND TERRORISM. 290MN Sheqels appropriated to improve defense of Kibbutzim and towns adjacent to Gaza. Mayors are advised on the administration of missile-plagued population. Sderot's public schools are fortified to withstand Palestinian missiles.

4. DOVISH THINK TANK EXPECTS MORE TERRORISM. Tel Aviv's University's Jaffe Center for Strategic Studies projects exacerbated terrorist activity in Judea & Samaria as a result of "disengagement", with Gaza as the logistic headquarters.

5. AN UNCONTROLLABLE TERRORIST FLOW TO GAZA. The 1993 Oslo Accord snatched 20,000 Palestinian terrorists from oblivion in Yemen, Iraq, Sudan, Lebanon and Tunisia, establishing the largest terrorist base in the world in Israel's heartland. "Disengagement" would exacerbate the flow of Palestinian terrorists, by relinquishing Israel's control over the access to Gaza. Hizballah operatives are expected to arrive in higher numbers. The PA/PLO negotiates the transfer of thousands of Palestinian terrorists from Lebanon to Gaza. Lebanon's government is eager to rid itself of the 400,000 Palestinians, who have been a permanent source of civil strives, pro-Syrian subversive activities and crime, since the 1970 arrival of the PLO to Lebanon. A larger terrorist reinforcement could emanate from Jordan and Syria. Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, and other traditional allies of the PA/PLO are expec! ted to take advantage of the new access to the strategically pertinent eastern flank of the Mediterranean.

6. REDUCING FRICTION AND MANAGING CONFLICT? Wishful-thinking has been crashed against Palestinian conviction that terrorism - rather than negotiation - has produced Israeli retreat from Gaza and northern Samaria. "Disengagement" has fueled HOPE-DRIVEN Palestinian terrorism (for further Jewish vacillation), which has been vindicated by a series of Israeli concessions to terrorism, initiated by the 1993 Oslo Accord and its offshoots (Hebron, Wye, Road Map and "Disengagement").

7. PRESIDENT BUSH OPPOSES "DISENGAGEMENT" IN IRAQ BUT ENCOURAGES IT IN GAZA? In his August 13, 2005 weekly radio address he stated: "[The terrorists] are trying to shake our will. They want to force free nations to retreat so they can topple governments across the Middle East, establish Taliban-like regimes in their place, and turn the Middle East into a launching pad for attacks against free people. The terrorists will fail. Because we are fighting a murderous ideology with a clear strategy, we're staying on the offensive in Iraq, Afghanistan and other fronts in the war on terror, fighting terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them here at home. When terrorists spend their days and nights struggling to avoid death or capture, they're less capable of arming and training and plotting new attacks on America..." That which the President observes in Iraq - 6,000 miles away from the US - is doubly appropriate for Gaza, Judea & Samaria - contiguous to Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa.

8. "Once a country allows its foreign policy to be determined by terrorism, it has given the game away... No self-respecting government would allow that to happen..." (Australian Prime Minister John Howard, July 21, 2005 press conference, London).

AN EMAIL FROM:
=============================================
Women For Israel's Tomorrow (Women in Green)
POB 7352, Jerusalem 91072, Israel
Tel: 972-2-624-9887 Fax: 972-2-624-5380
mailto:michael@womeningreen.org
http://www.womeningreen.org

[Jrabbit]

Thanks....this does suck. What are where are these farmers going to do now? I'm sure this makes sense, somehow....just trying to figure out what!

[TheSpottedOwl]

Begin is the man I am thinking of. The US has been relentless in forcing Israel to sign treaties and agreements, apparently without any regard to the fact that it feeds terrorism. At the same time we face the real threat of terrorists of the same ilk, running across our southern borders. Bush's response is to call the Minutemen, "vigilantes". Imo, Bush is making a deal with the devil. After the blood and dust soak into the ground in Gaza, MEChA and La Raza will use this retreat to further their idiotic claims that the American Southwest really belongs to Mexico.

Something very bad has been set into motion.

[Jrabbit]

Safe??? OMG....the 8500 will be replaced with 10,000 maniacs! Banging head on keyboard....I keep hoping and praying that there is a sane reason to appease the terrorists. If there is, it must be a huge secret!

[TheSpottedOwl]

I was thinking a little more 20th century, but King David is a most excellent choice :-D