Bomb Squads, Setting Off the Bombs

NY Times ^ | August 14, 2005 | WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM

[neverdem]

The bombs were identical in size and design: one in a black nylon duffel bag, the other in a black knapsack with grayish trim. Each was made of 10 kilos of powerful commercial explosives - essentially sawdust soaked in nitroglycerine - with nuts and bolts for shrapnel. Left on seats in a commuter rail car, they were detonated almost simultaneously using cellphones.

The explosions ripped into the steel, plastic and fiberglass, sending a deadly shock wave through the passenger compartment and hurtling twisted chunks of metal, debris and tiny bits of the bombs hundreds of feet in every direction. Almost everyone in the rail car should have been killed.

But the bombmaker, like those who worked with him that day, was remarkable because he assembled the explosives to help catch terrorists. An expert bomb investigator, he was helping to train his peers from across the country.

The blast, which took place early this year at the China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center in the California desert north of Los Angeles, was observed by dozens of state, local and federal investigators, including the commander of New York Police Department Bomb Squad. It was part of a highly specialized F.B.I. training seminar, a five-day program which is presented several times each year across the country and includes the detonation of a thousand-pound truck bomb. The program helps investigators better understand the awesome power of such devices and, according to the chief trainer, Special Agent Kevin Miles, it teaches them how to piece together a device after an enormous blast and reveal a bombmaker's unique signature. It gives them the confidence to know that they can do their job, he said, to help find the bomber.

[neverdem]

Catherine Kibby, Bakersfield Police Department Crime Scene Unit
Bomb investigators from around the nation gathered in January for training at the China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center in California, using real explosives.

[neverdem]

BANG!

[t_skoz]

good post. BTTT!

[GSlob]

Some time in the future there will be carbon black/LOX explosives used: the only forensic traces will be soot and carbon black, not easy to distinguish from other explosion aftereffects.

[PoorMuttly]

Muttly like China Lake.

[patton]

Odd, how I run into the same poeple, on various threads.

[PoorMuttly]

Muttly always sleeping under the porch of any thread that "go boom."

[IYAAYAS]

E.O.D. ping (if there is one let me know)

[patton]

You probably don't want to admit that to TSA in an aiport. Your milage may vary.

[PoorMuttly]

Authorities already well aware of innocent little Muttly's interests.

Some of them even converse with him upon occasion. Have lots of fun!

Muttly like boom...and food.....and being hostile to not nice peoples and animals. Hasn't taken many airline trips since particular day, though. Prefer to drive Muttlymobile....and haul far too much equipment with him....just in case.

[PoorMuttly]

O.K. Waited long enough. Getting hungry...so I'LL do it...:

Someone set us off the Bomb ??!!!!!

(didn't even mention moose or cheese once, so I AM getting better. Except...now REALLY hungry!!!)

Better go outside and blow something up, to take my mind off it.

[American in Israel]

Looks like an Israeli School Bus.

[KeyWest]

Some time in the future there will be carbon black/LOX explosives used: the only forensic traces will be soot and carbon black, not easy to distinguish from other explosion aftereffects.

---

Why go to something exotic and bulky when there are small, compact and exceptional bang for the buck alternatives? You really want detonation for back/packs not deflagration, which the LOX/carbon gives. For a car bomb, the Kansas City mix is cheaper, more portable and more stable and is a deflagration mix like LOX/Carbon black (which some use as rocket propellants). Plus, the LOX/carbon black mix has been around for a long time and was only used when nitrates were in short supply.

Finally, the last concern of a bomber is worry about the ID of the explosive.

[drlevy88]

Hey, advise the terrorists won't you.

[GSlob]

IIRC from Stetbacher's book, LOX/carbon black does not deflagrate, but detonates at 4+ miles/second, as good as RDX.

[kralcmot]

its all happening here, in the desert

China Lake

the place for explosions

and rocket motors

for the last 50 years

[KeyWest]

Hey, advise the terrorists won't you.

---

They are alredy using these.

[KeyWest]

IIRC from Stetbacher's book, LOX/carbon black does not deflagrate, but detonates at 4+ miles/second, as good as RDX.

---

I stand corrected, but... It looked like deflagration in the several sites I checked, especially since it was used in hobby rockets and compared to nitrate based explosives. Have no idea where I put my Explosives Handbook for Military Use so I could be sure.

There are more than a few explosives if they are compacted and in large quantity shift from deflagration to detonation. So you can have a nitrate based explosive do either and since they seems to come up in relation to LOX/CB, that might also be the case here. Especially since it can be ignited with a flame and most of the sites noted that it is bagged to get good results.

Usually (but not always) detonation is stared with a shock wave, like a blasting cap. Deflagration with a burning front. But, as noted, you can shift from deflagration to detonation.

In any case, my points still stand. It is not the best thing to use in any case.