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Posted on 08/19/2005 7:02:03 AM PDT by TexKat
Five? I think your big ol' generous heart is getting the better of you, darlin'.
That you consider my original post 'spiteful' is unfortunate. Take the post at face value.
I'm not intrigued by your interest, only the interest of the media in attempting to create interest by their 24 hour coverage. It reminded me of the Levy case - plain and simple.
Cast aspersions all you like - that says a lot to me as well...
We who are regulars on this thread very much appreciate TexKat's efforts and we resent that remark. It was uncalled for so please stop it.
Perhaps even in Aruba it would be a crime to lie to the polis.
Your scenario--Joran either spikes Natalee's drink or she just drinks too much and something awry happens, would be plausible to me if they could find a body or some evidence. I just can't see how those three boys, even with the father's later help, could have masterminded the whole thing.
A couple of nights ago, before BTK sucked up all the oxygen in the cable news rooms, Beth and Jug were talking on some show and I think it was Jug who implied there is something much bigger going on than these three boys.
I'm sure everything will go just fine. Just be yourself! And....make sure you keep you hand over your drink!
Nah, I prefer to DUMP on your head!
"Nah, I prefer to DUMP on your head!"
Yet another intelligent post. You're on a roll.
Here...recognize this:
[Posted by xrp to Dawsonville_Doc
On News/Activism 08/16/2005 2:18:49 PM CDT · 4 of 50
Stupid is as stupid does.]
Yes Beth and her family are certainly in a limbo with the way things are. But from the point of view of the suspect, any suspect not just in this case, it is hard to understand how they can just hold you and hold you and hold you without charging you. At the very least I would think you could post bail or something. The way they are doing it now, it seems like they are halfway charging him. I suppose there are benefits to doing it the way they do it or they wouldn't do it, but I like our way better.
Natalee's mom Aug. 18: Former FBI Profiler and MSNBC Analyst Clint Van Zandt sits down for a frank, one-on-one interview with Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Clint tries to retrace what happened on the fateful night Natalee vanished in Aruba and asks the probing questions that haven't been asked of Beth. Her answers will surprise you. MSNBC
Investigation continues in Aruba
Family presses for information on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway
COMMENTARY
By Clint Van Zandt MSNBC analyst & former FBI profiler Updated: 9:00 a.m. ET Aug. 19, 2005
I am in Aruba to follow the case of disappearance of Natalee Holloway, having followed it from the USA since the beginning, and like most of the media people here I follow it from early morning to past midnight every day. It's easy to get caught up in this case, especially after spending a significant amount of time talking with Natalee's mother Beth. She is an intelligent, articulate, and focused woman with one goal, finding an answer to the disappearance of her daughter. She realizes that she is now the voice that speaks for her missing daughter, someone who cannot speak for herself. She is professional in her approach to this matter, she keeps very good notes (in a growing notebook) on everything involved in this case, and she is determined to get the answer she seeks. I would hope to be so tenacious were it one of my children that was missing.
This is a story within a story, intertwined with politics and other considerations on a 77 square mile piece of land that gets about 70% of its money from American tourists, and there are many here. The investigation continues to center on 18-year old Joran van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers, only van der Sloot who remains in jail. It is hard to consider explanations for Natalee's disappearance other than foul play, although Arubans tell me that they believe that she simply ran away, perhaps with Joran's help, or she swam out into the water and drown, or she was carried away and sold into slavery, all versions that leave out the fact that the three primary suspects had the last known contact with the missing woman, that they have collectively told many stories or lies about their time with her the night she disappeared. In a statement made by van der Sloot to the police he suggested that one of the Kalpoe brothers had perhaps sexually assaulted, murdered and buried her, that he himself (van der Sloot) has confessed to having sexual contact with her when she could not resist (drugs, alcohol?), and/or that he later left her alone on the beach, a second violation of local law as he apparently left a vulnerable person in a place and condition where she could be victimized, all similar to US misdemeanors, probably at most with a six month sentence. However, you cannot be convicted simply on your own confession here, therefore, as Joran's father, Paulus van der Sloot is alleged to have said, "No body, no case."
As has been reported, there were apparent errors in the investigation, things that should have been done from day one that were not done until day 5 or 10, that may have been fatal errors as far as the investigation itself. I'm told, for example, that the van der Sloot residence, other than Joran's apartment, has never been officially searched by the police. Aruban investigators apparently simply write down statements offered by suspects with few if any follow up questions. Experienced Dutch investigators have subsequently been brought in to interview Joran, but by that time he was represented by counsel, and even though such counsel cannot speak to him during an interview by the police, a clearing of the throat, movement of one's chair, or other signals can be used to tell the suspect to watch out for that question. Others have suggested that during questioning that Joran has a mental picture of a sign in front of him, one with the date of Sept 4th on it, the day that he could be released if no other evidence is produced to implicate him in this case. Some believe that because of the Aruban national election on or about Sept. 25, that Joran may be held an additional 30 days, this to get the election past and then he could be released. Like so many other aspects of this case, no body seems to know.
The island has been searched and short of a search of the land fill, noting that one "witness" said he saw a blond woman being buried in the land fill the night Natalee disappeared, there does not appear to be anywhere else to search. Equa-Search has come and gone, and now one man with two search dogs remains, at least for another week, with no results to date. You will recall the Lori Hacking case in Salt Lake City where the murdered woman's body was found in the local land fill after an extensive search. The Holloway family has asked the local government to do the same here. A decision is pending on this matter, but it they had Dutch F-16's do photo fly overs that probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, you'd think the local government would spend the money needed to search the land fill and therefore complete the land search. There is one other lead. Someone has come forward with a machine that can allegedly detect human remains in water and has indicated that he has detected (from standing on the beach) such remains about one mile off shore from the beach where Joran said he left Natalee, this in about 100-180 feet of water. Searchers are considering putting divers in the water to check out this "lead" -- one of many bizarre and not so bizarre that have proven worthless in this case to date.
Part of this investigation is to determine if any suspect in this case has exhibited a previous pattern of behavior toward young women that would render such women to somehow be his victim. Should this be the case with any suspect, both investigators and Holloway family members would like to determine if such a person then had a history of approaching and singling out other women who were on the island for their last night and assaulting them in some fashion, with the suspect believing that his "victim" would simply leave the next day as opposed to seeking to file charges. Natalee's mother has appealed for any prior victims of any suspect to come forward, but if others were victimized in a similar manner, it could be hard for such individuals to acknowledge their victim status at this time, this with the accompanying social stigma that might be associated with their statements. That plea by Beth continues, one that says such victims can still get justice for themselves and for Natalee, and perhaps prevent future women from becoming victims in such cases.
This is, of course, investigative and emotional speculation at this time. Answers to such issues could explain why Natalee went off with someone she had just met that night, something that the Holloway family believe happened within a few minutes of her encounter with the current suspects the night she disappeared. The family also believe that Natalee left with Joran, but believed she was getting into a cab when she entered the Kalpoe's car. (Most "cabs" on Aruba appear to be in reality private cars with none of the identification normally found inside of US cabs, therefore it's reasonable for her to have possibly believed this.) Then there are allegations of 151 proof shots of alcohol being given to unsuspecting women in bars, stories of the use of date rape drugs, and other unsubstantiated ideas as to why Natalee left her friends to go off with a complete stranger the night she disappeared. The law and society of course provide for adults, Natalee was 18, Joran was 17, to have a consensual affair without any legal scrutiny -- the challenge here is to determine Natalee's level of consent that evening and what happened to her after she was seen driving away with van der Sloot and the Kalpoes.
Short of finding some evidence, or in the worse case scenario the victim herself in the land fill, this case may not be solved. Should there be other woman who have been victimized in a similar manner by any suspect in this case, their statements could be crucial to the Aruban court. The court could then consider such to represent a pattern of behavior on the suspect's part in its investigation, but such would still not directly address what happened to Natalee Holloway when she left the bar in Aruba, never to be seen again. The three current suspects in Aruba have nothing to gain by talking to the police -- no deals and no plea bargains can be struck, therefore there is no reason to tell what you know about another and possibly implicate yourself in the same case.
I know that some level of interest may be waning in America, especially with the people who complain "why so much attention to the blond white girl -- she should have known better; the escorts from her school should have been there; her friends should have stopped her; and it's really her fault." None of this would, of course, justify her murder by anyone, and a mother is left without answers, probably like many other parents around the world, but for what ever the reason, we are left watching this case. For the Holloway's this case will not end until they have their answer, and for the van der Sloot and the Kalpoe families, well, I'd expect that if and when Joran was released from jail that both families would probably consider leaving the island, and this matter behind them. And the Holloway family; they'll be left with fading pictures of Natalee and a mother's note book that has no final chapter.
"Perhaps even in Aruba it would be a crime to lie to the polis."
You would think so...but, unfortunately it is not. According to several people/Aruban lawyers that have been on TV, it is not a crime to mislead the polis under Dutch law. Joran can say anything he wants and so can everyone else. Since that is the case it's doubtful that the truth will come from any of the current suspects. They do not offer plea deals under Dutch law so why would any of them actually tell the truth. If the lies turn this into a waiting game they know they will win.
You need to watch the 1960's comedy "Yours, Mine and Ours." Probably anything you face will look tame in comparison. Relax and have a great time!
I've thought for a long time now that this was bigger than just Natalee. I suppose that the VDSs and company could probably have gotten rid of the body, but it's the behavior of ALE and the island people who act so frightened that convince me that more is at stake.
That's a great movie! I watched it in the hospital after having my 4th (of five) children.
I really like it too. If you need to inject any humor into the situation, just remember Lucy losing her slip at the military club and having Fonda go back and get it, only to meet up again with the overheated babe looking for an officer.
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