Posted on 08/22/2005 6:53:28 PM PDT by RobFromGa
Your "challenge" is - like your effort to redefine everything FairTax to suit your arguments - nothing at all.
You, OTOH, are welcome to find the majority of major industries who have marginal tax rates of 30% or more.
"I guess this means you're not up to the challenge.
LOL.
I'm not surprised.
I didn't think you were. "
Oh, and while you're at it, tell us how the income tax plan you favor helps give us border-adjustable taxation and generates more revenue from the illegal economy.
THEN come back and tell us all about your plan.
Do you actually believe that there is not an alternative to the current tax code? I have asked you repeatedly to give us your answer to the goliath and you have done nothing more than waffle. Spin, spin, spin. Are you going to continue to spin? YES YOU ARE, aren't you?
Respect has to be earned. With my most sincere salutations:
groanup
Do you want me to post the comment you made where you claimed that my entire gross revenue for one year was equal to the down payment of a house in your neighborhood? LOL! I'll have to go back in the archives but I can find it, I sure can. I think I'll just do it anyway. LOL!! You shouldn't have done that lou. You just made your side look like pompous asses. I'll give you this, you aren't bashful.
Dear groanup,
At this point, the proponents of the NSRT have made assertions that are false, groanup. See the running discussion that I'm having with pigdog about where we're going to find all those corporate income taxes that are being paid that can be returned to the consumers.
It's gotten pretty disgusting that no one from your side of this debate can honestly step forward and admit that pigdog's gone pretty far off track here. He can't even figure out how corporate income taxes are actually calculated.
If you want me discuss topics that are important to you, the least you can do is return the conversation to a position of intellectual integrity.
The cessation of federal corporate income taxes is a genuine area of savings in the NSRT, but it would help if folks would be honest about the levels involved.
I've already posted a smattering of actual financial results from major corporations that support my assertion that the amount of federal corporate income taxes to be saved is very modest.
Pigdog disagrees. I've challenged him to show me the Fortune 500 companies where the levels of this tax rise to 11% of total revenues. Because, you know what, groanup? If lots and lots of big companies were really sending in that kind of money for the federal corporate income tax, I'd concede that you folks have a major argument there.
But I've shown every evidence against it, and I'm challenging pigdog to show his evidence, REAL EVIDENCE from the financial data of Fortune 500 companies, to prove it.
If you want to discuss your issues, then call on pigdog to take up the challenge.
sitetest
He is not normal. He has some form of chip on his shoulder and cannot engage in normal debate without little clips such as "get it" and digs that most confident people would do without. He is one of the pro fair taxers least worries.
Dear Sprite518,
I don't know that the Economist asserted that on average, American corporations send off 11% of their total revenues to the IRS in the form of federal corporate income taxes.
If you show a quote that asserts that, I'll be happy to disagree with it. And I'll post data to prove it.
As well, as far as I know, no one from the Economist is here on this thread. Point out the poster from the Economist, and I'll ask him if that is his claim.
However, pigdog has made the claim through his off-base table.
So, I'm challenging pigdog to back it up.
I don't think he'll accept the challenge.
Perhaps during the delay between my initial offering of the challenge and his initial response, he did a little research (it's easy to get the numbers on the Internet) and realized that his claim is unsupportable.
Do you want to take up the challenge?
Find 20 companies in the Fortune 500 that send off 11% of their total annual revenues in the form of federal corporate income taxes.
I'll find 20 that send 5% or less.
If we both find 20, we both keep posting them until one of us runs out.
By that, we'll get some handle on what sort of savings can be achieved, at least on a single level, by eliminating the federal corporate income tax.
And we'll see what sort of numbers are realistic to put into one these "cascading tax" tables, and what accumulated tax numbers result.
sitetest
Dear Sprite518,
"Do you believe tax cuts reaise or decrease tax revenue?"
Depends.
Go look up the Laffer Curve.
sitetest
Well you know what siteTEST?, you are disingenuous. You are not being honest. I asked you AT LEAST two days ago to give me your interpretation of what tax policy the fed gov should follow and you have done nothing of the kind. The only fact I can take away from that is that you have no alternative to current tax policy. If that is the case why are you on this board other than to promote your government control over our lives.
I've already posted a smattering of actual financial results from major corporations that support my assertion that the amount of federal corpor
Please. Don't bore us all with the status quo. JUST GIVE US A TAX POLICY THAT WE CAN ALL LIVE WITH. AND DON'T BASE IT UPON YOUR INCOME OR LIVELYHOOD.
Depreciation 101
From Gvl M3
"what the accountants have shown, our biggest portion of our capital budget is the depreciation of this land. Why do we have to "PAY" twice for the land"
From groanup:
"I don't understand. How is deprecitation a repeat purchase of land. It is merely tax avoidance isn't it?"
Depreciation is neither a repeat purchase or a tax avoidance. If you pay $10,000 cash today for a building and depreciate it for $1,000 a year over a ten year period on your income tax, you are simply allocating the $10,000 over ten years you use it so you match revenues with expenses. Also, land is not depreciable. You can only depreciate buildings, equipment and other things that wear out.
And average Americans understand our current tax system?
woodbeez
I don't think you understand how payroll taxes work...and what effect they have on the employer and employee. Need to read further down the thread though, maybe I'm missing your point. ??
Dear groanup,
"I asked you AT LEAST two days ago to give me your interpretation of what tax policy the fed gov should follow and you have done nothing of the kind."
I certainly have, and I'm perfectly willing to continue discussing what I think our tax policies should be.
After you reclaim some intellectual integrity.
Either repudiate pigdog's false posts (which have been going on for longer than two days) that are now asserting that corporations, on average, are sending 11% of their revenues to the government in the form of federal corporate income taxes, or prove them to be true yourself.
How much there is to be saved by eliminating the federal corporate income tax is a critical issue. If we really could recapture and save at the retail level 11% from just one level, that would be grand!
Heck, if you can demonstrate the claim, I'd be a lot more inclined to the NSRT, myself.
But the very fact that you can't demonstrate it, because it just isn't true, is part of the reason for my opposition.
If you can't come clean on it, there is no point in discussing what are the alternatives to the NSRT.
sitetest
A producer of products must pay a certain amount to produce that product. A company that resells a product must first buy that product from the producer, and of course pay whatever the producer charges for the product. That is the raw cost of that product. Before the company marks that product up, they must first determine how much markup they must get in order to profit from the sale of the product. The determining factors are overhead (rent, electricity, shipping, wages, etc.) and the taxes that the government charges the company.
Companies do not pay income taxes. They merely collect them from the consumer. This is so because the company merely adds the cost of the tax to the final price of the product. Companies have accountants that can figure very closely what their tax liability is going to be. The average amount of embedded taxes in a product works out to approximately 23%.
Now, the fair tax eliminates the taxes that the company would otherwise pay, and replaces it with a 23% sales tax (approximately). So, the company lowers its price by 23%, but it is added back on at the register through a sales tax. The end result is the same price. If the company doesn't lower the price buy 23% so that the end price is the same, another company will.
The company is making the same profit per unit sold, because the 23% tax is not being added before the sale, but after the sale. I really don't understand why you don't understand this.
Now, as to this talk about wage reduction. The company pays an employee X amount of dollars. The income taxes withheld by the company are paid to the government. In no way do they affect what the company makes. Therefore, there is no justification for claiming that wage reductions will be necessary. If a company is paying me 20 bucks an hour, that's what they pay me. What they have to take out and give to the government has nothing to do with them. In fact, the Fair tax will save them a shit load of paperwork.
Now you can continue to call me a fool, or you can debate seriously. The facts are on my side. Additional taxes will be picked up when foreigners shop in America. The IRS will be eliminated. The price of products will stay essentially the same. The cost of tax paperwork will be eliminated. A monthly rebate check will come to each taxpayer for the basic necessities of life. This deal is a winner. I am afraid that it is you who fail to understand that this system puts an end to punishing the productive citizens. It will unleash an economic boom the likes of which this nation hasn't seen in years. Those are the facts.
Everyone look at lewislynn in forum... Says it all...Says all what? I disagree with your idiocy...Or I don't fit your narrow minded pattern? So what? Are you the arbiter of what a troll is on FR?
Sure everyone, unlike some people, go right ahead I have nothing to hide.
Proudly trolling since June 1998 and I've just now been found out....< /sarcasm >
LOL! Have you even read "The Fair Tax Book" ? Those are the economist I am referring too. You do understand what studies you are debating? Hint: it is not pigdog.... You need go into the report and explaining a point by point on how their argument is flawed to come with the %23. Actually one study showed 22% and the other 24 embedded taxes. And that is where they came up with the 23% sales tax. BTW, so what is your solution to our current hideous Karl Marx Progressive tax? I am just curious. One more thing... The information you are asking for is not easy to access. Please tell me where you are pulling your information?? For instance, are you calling every company asking for an annul financial status report?Perhaps that is why you asked it??? You know that it can not be researched in a timely manor.
Yes RobFromGa,
YEAH AND THAT IS WHY ANYONE CAN SEE PAGES UPON PAGES OF YOU DISCUSSING ONLY THE FAIR TAX...I GUESS YOUR A ONE ISSUE GUY... LOL!
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