Posted on 09/07/2005 6:37:01 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
What a concept: Prayer in a public place
As William Rehnquist's casket was placed in the rotunda of the Supreme Court, I asked myself: "What's wrong with this picture?" Then it hit me: A minister was actually praying, calling Rehnquist a "child of God," right there in the entrance hall of the Supreme Court!
It is a fact that the Ten Commandments are posted above the bench in the chamber where these nine folks preside. And each session begins with the words " . . . and God save this honorable court."
If an American child were to attempt that in a government school today, he or she would almost certainly be sent home or be sent for "counseling."
Perhaps if some of the children of New Orleans had become acquainted with God and his rules for proper, civilized behavior, there would have been fewer shootings, murders and rapes down there recently.
I guess what you are observing is a moment of silence. ;-)
DITTO!
Psalm 139 is considered the prolife prayer in the sanctity of life circles.
It references God knowing us before we were born, and seeing us as we were knit in our mother's womb.
It's a strong prolife passage from the Word.
Brought me to tears, as I'm sure Rehnquist wrote out his requests for his funeral.
"The younger pastor also read Psalm 139."
I didn't realize that was read. How powerful!
It was very powerful, beautiful and reflected Rehnquist well.
Well- I know he did a bang up job writing his dissenting opine in Wallace v.Jaffree that explained the "wall of separation between church and State." was a bad metaphor based on bad history that ought be expressly rejected.
And the blind senile arthritic watchdog called the press
promply ignores this whenever they discuss the first Amendment they so proudly proclaim to defend.If he did write down his last rights no doubt the "already captured liberal establishment and the press'would find some way to
either discredit or diminish the affects.
Where to start, so many points to hit...
"As William Rehnquist's casket was placed in the rotunda of the Supreme Court, I asked myself: "What's wrong with this picture?" Then it hit me: A minister was actually praying, calling Rehnquist a "child of God," right there in the entrance hall of the Supreme Court!"
Yes, which had nothing to do with any governmental business, it simply happened in a government building. Much like if you got married at city hall.
"It is a fact that the Ten Commandments are posted above the bench in the chamber where these nine folks preside."
Yes, in a historical context with many other forms of law such as our own constitution, Hammurabi, and more which is and should be completely legal.
"If an American child were to attempt that in a government school today, he or she would almost certainly be sent home or be sent for "counseling.""
A child can make any mention of God they want in school, the problem lies in when the administration of said school invokes religion in government funded schools in a non-educational fashion. Also, I find it hard to believe you actually think a child would be sent home for counseling by expressing a religious belief.
"Perhaps if some of the children of New Orleans had become acquainted with God and his rules for proper, civilized behavior, there would have been fewer shootings, murders and rapes down there recently."
On this we agree.
My point here is to say that as a person who is vehemently against religion in government, I do not have a problem with a single thing you listed, so there's really not much to be surprised about. I seriously doubt there are many people who are trying to ban the things you were so surprised about. If however I am wrong you can at least take comfort in that not everyone with views similar to mine are.
Dear Join,
As a clearly intelligent person, you also realize that that "wall of separation between church and state" was a phrase from a letter Jefferson wrote to some Christian friends in Danbury, CN.
You must also know that the First Amendment was to prohibit the national government from encouraging or establishing a STATE supported religious DENOMINATION. The Founders had just experienced the problems associated with King George and the Church of England and wanted to try to prevent that in the new nation.
And one of the highest per capita literacy rates ever seen here was in the early colonial period (around 98%). Why? Folks wanted to be able to read their Bibles. Would that this were so today. Why have we become ashamed of our roots?
Just as Israel is based on Judaism and muslim nations are based on Islam, our roots in CHRISTIANITY go back to waaayyy before 1776, to wit:
“It was the Lord who put it into my mind—I could feel His hand upon me—the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies...All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me...There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because he comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures...For the execution of the journey to the Indies I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics, or maps. It is simply the fullfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied...No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Savior, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His Holy service...the fact that the Gospel must still be preached to so many lands in such a short time—this is what convinces me.”
Christopher Columbus’ “Book of Prophecies” (Diary)
• “In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread sovereign, lord King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, king, defender of the faith, etc., having undertaken for the glory of God and advancement of the Christian faith, and the honor of our king and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; so by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof do enact, constitute and frame such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts. constitutions and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventhm of November, in the reign of our sovereign lord King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth and of Scotland, the fifty?fourth. Anno Domini, 1620.”
The Mayflower Compact
• “We, greatly commending and graciously accepting of their desires for the furtherance of so noble a work, which may, by the providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the glory of His Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian religion to such people, as yet live in darkness and miserable ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God,...”
From the First Charter of Virginia
• A nation of well informed men, who have been taught to know and to prize the rights God has given them, cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.
Benjamin Franklin
“When the religion of a people is destroyed, doubt gets hold of the higher powers of the intellect, and half paralyzes all the others. Every man accustoms himself to have only confused and changing notions on the subjects most interesting to his fellow-creatures and himself. His opinions are ill-defined and easily abandoned; and, in despair of ever solving by himself the hard problems respecting the destiny of man, he ignobly submits to think no more about them. Such a condition cannot but enervate the soul, relax the springs of the will, and prepare the people for servitude. Not only does this happen, in such a case, that they allow their freedom to be taken from them; they themselves frequently surrender it.”
---Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America” (1840)
*I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...;in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into her churches and saw pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. (Alexis de Tocqueville, 1840)
FOURTH—AND FORGOTTEN AND NOT PC—VERSE OF NATIONAL ANTHEM
“O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and war’s desolation Bles’t with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land Praise the Pow’r that hath made and preserved us a nation Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!””
Francis Scott Key
*There is not a truth to be gathered from history more certain, or more momentous, than this: That civil liberty cannot long be separated from religious liberty without danger, and, ultimately, without destruction of both. Wherever religious liberty exists, it will, first or last, bring in and establish political liberty. (Joseph Story, Supreme Court Justice, 1779?1845)
*Loss of faith in God is our nation's?and the world's most
serious problem. When men lose God, they compromise,appease,
lie, steal, and make war. The collectivists, anarchists, and
atheists must destroy our faith in God to take over the world.
Unless we can recapture our Christian spirit and reestablish our
Christian values, we will soon lose our freedom of choice with
respect to all of life's values. The time could beapproaching
when the question will not be whether America can be saved, but
whether America is worth saving. Sodom and Gomorrah were not!
Only the moral deserve to be free. As the Apostle Paul said:
"Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
(Tom Anderson)
*"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such
homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to Him.
This duty is precedent, both in order of time and degree of
obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can
be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered
as a subject of the Governor of the Universe." James Madison
*"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political
prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports."
George Washington
*"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: It
connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil
government with the principles of Christianity."
John Quincy Adams
*"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among
old parchments or musty records. They are written as with a
sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature by the hand of
Divinity itself..." Alexander Hamilton
* "No truth is more evident to my mind [than] that the Christian
religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure
the rights privileges of a free people." Noah Webster
* "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon
and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is
impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to
this extent our civilization and our institutions are
emphatically Christian...this is a Christian nation."
1892 U.S.Supreme Court decision.
There is MUCH, MUCH more in the historical record but I think you get the idea.
Standing by for napalm attack
Well- I know he did a bang up job writing his dissenting opine in Wallace v.Jaffree that explained the "wall of separation between church and State." was a bad metaphor based on bad history that ought be expressly rejected.
Did he write that our freedom to exercise religion also gives us the freedom to ban laws that respect religions establishments? That those freedoms are inseparably entwined?
If one specific religions establishments are respected by the rule of law, the free exercise of another type of religion is infringed upon.
Did you even read my post?
Upon leaving my 7th graders school a few weeks ago, I noticed above the main entrance the words "IN GOD WE TRUST" in huge letters. I was quite shocked. Happily so.
I just RE-read it and find that I did, indeed, misunderstand the thrust of your remarks.
My apologies.
When we blindly accept the Soviet Communist concept of a
"Wall of separation between church and State,and between the school and the church."we accepted a divisive and destructive-anti-American idea.We damn ourselves to desolation. For as Joseph Story wrote "Probably at the time
of th eadoption of the Constitution,and (the First Amendment) the general if not universal sentiment in America
was that Christianity ought to recieve encouragment from the State. . . An attempt to level allrleigions ,or to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference,would have created universal disapprobaiton if not universal indignation." As both Jefferson and Madison
(and James Wilson and Joseph Story) all agreed the "legitimate" Constitution must be interpreted according to the "clear language used,and the intent of the
men who wrote and ratified the document.As the intent was to encourage Christianity --If we are the United States of America that nation established "a Christian nation"Then we ought encourage Christianity with our Laws and public displays.
Well- I know he did a bang up job writing his dissenting opine in Wallace v.Jaffree that explained the "wall of separation between church and State." was a bad metaphor based on bad history that ought be expressly rejected.
Did he write that our freedom to exercise religion also gives us the freedom to ban laws that respect religions establishments? That those freedoms are inseparably entwined?
If one specific religions establishments are respected by the rule of law, the free exercise of another type of religion is infringed upon.
When we blindly accept the Soviet Communist concept of a "Wall of separation between church and State,and between the school and the church."we accepted a divisive and destructive-anti-American idea.
The 'wall' phrase was first expressed by Jefferson as his best interpretation of how our freedom to exercise religion also gives us the freedom to ban laws that respect religions establishments. It is hardly an anti-american or communistic concept.
I watched it too.............in prayerful gratitude for the prayers and in gratitude for the service of William Rehnquist.
Pro-life ping!
Have you not read Daniel Dreisbach Thomas Jefferson and the
Wall of Separation between church and State. ,NewYork University Press,2002?; or Phillip Hamburger -Separation of
church and State.,Harvard University press,2002?Or James H.Hutson-Religion and the Founding of the American Republic,
Library of Congress,1998;or John Eidsmoe -Christianity and the Constitution,Baker Books ,1987? Jefferson appropriated the term from the Baptist leader Roger Williams as a bridge
or connection between the Baptist clergy and the mere politician.As an out of context and private letter that
expression cannot reasonably be understood as you profess--
for it noway reflects what Jefferson said in other letters
written at that time-nor with his Official conduct as President of the United States,Nor with his several other
proclamations about the inten tof the men who did write and ratify the first Amendment.Your arguement is in error.
The 'wall' phrase was first expressed by Jefferson as his best interpretation of how our freedom to exercise religion also gives us the freedom to ban laws that respect religions establishments.
It is hardly an anti-american or communistic concept.
As an out of context and private letter that expression cannot reasonably be understood as you profess -- for it no way reflects what Jefferson said in other letters written at that time - nor with his Official conduct as President of the United States, Nor with his several other proclamations about the intent of the men who did write and ratify the first Amendment.
Your arguement is in error.
You are simply denying the historical facts. Jefferson wrote the letter to a Baptist committee.
Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The final letter, as sent:
______________________________________
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.
Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson Jan. 1. 1802
______________________________________
Your argument is incorrect.
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