Novell: Vista will drive users to Linux

Cnet News ^ | 09/12/2005 | Andrew Donoghue

[Panerai]

The cost of migrating from Windows XP to Windows Vista will encourage more companies to seriously consider moving to desktop Linux, the chief executive of open-source and networking company Novell said on Monday.

Speaking at Brainshare, the company's annual European user conference in Barcelona, Novell CEO Jack Messman claimed that the cost of moving desktops to the next version of Windows will be significantly higher than migrating to desktop Linux.

"The cost of migrating to Windows XP to Vista will be higher than the cost of migrating to Linux and that will push migrations to Linux," Messman said.

Novell says it is making real gains on the desktop in Europe currently and that many organizations are choosing its Linux Desktop product especially in vertical industries that require locked-down clients with limited functionality.

"Instead of a 'one-size-fits-all' approach, Novell Desktop can be customized to provide the right fit across different workstations in the enterprise," said David Patrick, general manager of open-source platforms for Novell. "So businesses finally have a secure and cost-effective alternative to Windows that serves the customer's return on investment rather than a vendor's proprietary licensing program."

Messman added that moving to desktop Linux has functionality benefits as well as cost benefits. He claimed that the fact that Novell's desktop Linux offering has less functionality than Microsoft Office is actually a positive rather than a negative thing.

[js1138]

Your description of the problem is rather incomplete. Windows 3.1 had no networking capability, so it couodn't transfer anything.

If you are talking about copying files made with word 6.0 to a floppy and then reading the floppy with the latest version of Word, you need to know that not everyone installs all the available features of Office.

Reading files from a program six generations old is a rather specialized task. Office can do it, but it requires you to install that ability. If you failed to do it, you can get the Office CD and add the necessary feature.

[rivercat]

If you have a laptop that crashes several times an hour under Windows XP, it's not Microsoft that's the problem. You're having a hardware fault or a poorly written driver is crapping out the system. I honestly can't remember the last time I crashed an XP machine......and I'm as hardcore a user as they come.

I go waaay back, programming big iron, DEC minis, *nix, DOS, NT, etc... I didn't switch to Windows on my home computer until right before 98 came out. I was involved in the XP beta program. I was so impressed with the stability of XP Beta 1, that I reimaged my primary home computer with it. I honestly cannot remember ever having a BSOD on XP. It's been rock solid.
I went through the Linux phase for awhile, but got tired of having to make my hardware decisions based on whether or not there was a Linux driver for it. For the multitude of needs that my family uses the computer, there is nothing that compares to XP.
I'm a software developer in a mixed shop, so I have to do Wintel/.NET and Sun/Java. The productivity of our Wintel staff is much higher than the Sun/Java developers.

[birbear]

And here is the point why *nix isn't penetrating the desktop world. Most users are just that: users. They have no desire to have to memorize, or even be aware of this kind of stuff.

Shout it from the roof tops, brother!

I'm not a techie, nor do I want to be. I just want a box that works when I turn it on, has applications that I want/need to run, and that I can call somebody local if the box doesn't turn on.

For the past 15 years that box has been powered by MS products. I suppose, 15 years ago, when I had the decision to be made, and I chose Mac instead of PC, I'd be singing the praises of Apple today.

I gave up command lines a long time ago. I don't want to go back.

[HolgerDansk]

A: No, it's not true. For a while we thought it was, but we proved to be incorrect. Microsoft's network stack was written by a Scottish company called Spider.

...and Spider's codebase was BSD. Eventually Microsoft wrote their own stack (replicating lots of mistakes along the way) but until recently they didn't rewrite the BSD applications (ftp, etc) which still had the UCB copyright notice embedded in them. At least that was true up to about five years ago, when I had access to the sources.

[HolgerDansk]

Fifteen years ago? Hmmm....isn't that about the time Windows 3.1 came out? ("Ooooo! Truetype!")

Actually, 1988. I was one of the folks called in at Stanford to clean up after the Morris Worm. Still annoyed that they didn't string up Robert T. Morris Jr., instead he got a slap on the wrist, encouraging others to do the same.

[Golden Eagle]

From your very own link:

But it is certainly misleading of the Wall Street Journal to say that BSD code is used "deep inside" the NT networking code...And implying that the TCP/IP stack uses BSD code is also false.

[Golden Eagle]

You still can't even follow a link?

Here it is again. Maybe you need a new browser. Or new operating system.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x665385

It has nothing to do with "constraints against capitalism" or whatever else you claimed. It is an article about the DNC and their use of Linux, and the RNC and their use of Microsoft. Anything else you claim it is, is nothing but obvious BS.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Actually there's more holes in Unix/Linux than Windows. As reported every month by US Cert. Yada-yada-ya-duh.

[Golden Eagle]

why couldn't I get it to work without having to switch to Linux?

Well if you can't even manage to follow a simple link provided to you in clickable form, all bets are off.

[MarkL]

mount -t ntfs -o user=username //server/shared_partition

That's right. No problemo. Now, let's see how Joe Snuffy User handles that little ditty. Look out, help desk.

Gee, let's see...

net use f: \\server\share /user:[domainname\] username

Yup, Joe Snuffy User would have no problem with this, huh?

Maybe that's where the concept of SCRIPTS came from!

Mark

[N3WBI3]

You dont need the command line for UNIX, look at apple... Most modern Linux distros also do not need a command

[LexBaird]

He supplied a legitimate answer, in good faith, to a moderately technical question ... certainly a question 'way beyond anything that "Joe Snuffy User" has any interest in.

I wasn't criticizing SA's answer, nor evangelizing. I was commenting on the premise of the thread headline. Vista won't drive users to Linux, because Linux is intimidating to the average Joe Snuffy. So are the guts behind Windows, but that is an evil he already knows, somewhat, and is already locked into.

I wouldn't be much interested in this issue if I didn't have piles and piles of data on a WinXP machine.

There are lots of Joe Snuffy's out there with piles of data on WinXP who don't know enough to know they even have a file system problem with Linux conversion. They just know it "doesn't work" for some vague reason.

[LexBaird]

This can be done through the gui very easily on distro's like redhat and novell... Shadow just knows whats going on under the hood and hes giving it to you like that because its easier than posting three screen shots..

Not my point. My point is that OS's are still far too programmer oriented, instead of being end-user oriented. Is there any reason that an OS cannot automatically recognize a file system, even if it isn't the one the OS uses?

[old-ager]

> Vista's DRM architecture will probably drive more people to Linux than any other reason.

Yeah, free stuff, man.

Presumably digital property rights will only be enforced by those who choose to enforce them. Those who wish to contribute their work to the world for free, or to market through channels of their choosing, should still be able to.

[ShadowAce]

Remote shares are mounted with smbfs, not ntfs ntfs would only be used for a dev/sd deivce..

D'oh! You're right.

mount -t smbfs -o user=username //server/shared_partition /mount/point

is for remote systems. Luckily, he was actually asking for a local mount :) I've haven't done it for so long because I have this in my fstab, so I just mount the /mount/point instead.

[Wombat101]

Gee, what a surprise --- A Novell executive with a vested interest knocking an MS product and hyping his own. In the real world, this is simply called "marketing", not news.

[rzeznikj at stout]

When I reinstalled Office, I didn't see that capability. I'll try reinstalling it again, but what am I looking for?

Thanks!

[js1138]

what am I looking for?

It depends on what version you have. If you start up the Office installation, it should offer the option to modify the installation and add features. There should be a set of features called converters or filters. The exact list of such items will depend on the version you have.

What I know for sure is that a full set will include the ability to import files from older versions of Word and Works. My copy of Word will open Word for Macintosh 4.0-5.1, Word 6.0, 95, 97 and 2000, plus several versions of Works. In general, when I install Office, I choose the custom option and select all features to run from the computer. That way I never have to use the CD again. Since I am installing for other people, I don't get calls about features they expect to work but don't.

[rzeznikj at stout]

I have Office 2k. Just install everything, and the support will be included?

How much extra space does that take up?

[rzeznikj at stout]

Point out exactly where you find it. I want it verbatim, Golden Eagle.

I followed it. There's three replies. Two of them direct to a new thread. The third one is a vanity post and doesn't even mention Linux at all.

With all due respect, it is you who cannot follow the link. Your links are toast. None of them mention communism. Most of the second and third world countries are turning to Linux and OSS regardless of econopolitical system because of its stability and costs. These nations don't have the monetary resources of first-tier nations, and with Windows the way it is, many nations simply can no longer afford keeping up with Windows.

That's what many of your "smoking guns" really discuss.

And if you're still holding on to this alleged connection, then does that mean that you're grouping all second and third-tier countries (about 80% of the world) as Communist dumps?

I can think of several of those countries where OSS takes off and democracy exists--the nations of Central and Eastern Europe, the CIS, and places like Israel and Taiwan come to mind.

Until you can put the evidence on the table that refutes anything we're saying, I'm still not buying it. The OSS group is waiting...