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Gay men can be priests if celibate
Yahooooooo ^ | 10/07/05 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 10/07/2005 5:26:14 AM PDT by Abathar

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican will allow gay men into the priesthood if they can show they have been celibate for at least three years, leading Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported on Friday.

But it said the Vatican will ban men who "publicly manifest their homosexuality" or show an "overwhelming attraction" to homosexual culture "even if it is only intellectually."

The Vatican views on gay priests are contained in a secret 16-page document which is expected to be released next month.

The document, an "instruction" by the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education, covers one of the most sensitive issues in the Roman Catholic Church.

Officials at the Congregation for Catholic Education and the Vatican press office could not be reached for immediate comment.

The Corriere report said: "Candidates who show a homosexual tendency will not be allowed into the priesthood unless they can demonstrate that they have been able to remain chaste for at least three years."

Media reports last month, primarily in the United States, said the document would bar all gay men from being ordained priests, even those who are celibate.

Those reports caused concerns in many quarters in the Church that many good men would be excluded by a total ban.

The Church teaches that homosexuality is not a sin but that homosexual acts are, and it expects all priests, whether homosexual or heterosexual, to remain celibate.

Corriere and the weekly Panorama magazine both reported on Friday that Pope Benedict had approved the document this summer.

Panorama said its release would be accompanied by a written explanation by "an internationally known psychologist."

WIDESPREAD CONTROVERSY

Reacting to earlier reports that the document would ban even celibate gays, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin told the British Catholic newspaper The Tablet last week:

"You don't write off a candidate for the priesthood simply because he is a gay man."

Martin told the Tablet that seminaries did not in the past give men enough support to help them mature in their sexuality.

"We need to provide services of support for these priests and this will involve helping them along their personal journey and reassuring them."

In his book "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," Father Donald Cozzens estimated that some 40 percent of U.S. priests are gay but only a tiny minority are practicing homosexuals.

The Corriere report by the paper's respected religious affairs correspondent Luigi Accattoli, which he said was based on "verbal indiscretions," said the testing period for celibacy would be the last three years of seminary study.

Some conservative Catholics cheered last month's media reports that the new document would ban even celibate gays.

Archbishop Edwin F. O'Brien, head of the U.S. Archdiocese for Military Services, caused a storm when he said that even homosexuals who had managed to remain celibate for 10 years or more should not be admitted into seminaries.

Such positions were met by much criticism in the rest of the Church, particularly in the United States.

The Vatican has been working on the instruction on homosexual men and the priesthood for years. It will be a reform of a 1961 document which said men with "perverse inclination" to homosexuality should not be ordained.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholics; celibacy; gaymen; gaypriests; homosexualagenda; priesthood; priests; vatican
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"The Vatican has been working on the instruction on homosexual men and the priesthood for years. It will be a reform of a 1961 document which said men with "perverse inclination" to homosexuality should not be ordained. "

I like the old ways better myself.

1 posted on 10/07/2005 5:26:14 AM PDT by Abathar
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To: Abathar

This has got "Pure Trouble" written all over it.


2 posted on 10/07/2005 5:27:57 AM PDT by brewcrew
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To: Abathar
Like a cancer, it grows.
3 posted on 10/07/2005 5:29:18 AM PDT by austinite
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To: brewcrew

I agree completely, I know a lot of other Catholics that will be enraged over this.


4 posted on 10/07/2005 5:29:18 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading since 2004)
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To: Abathar
I don't believe this. A litmus test of having been celibate for 3 years? That doesn't sound like an official Vatican document. This is wishful thinking on the part of some liberals.

However, if it were an official Vatican document the fur would fly and people would start running, not walking, to Orthodox and SSPX masses.

5 posted on 10/07/2005 5:32:36 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: Abathar

I guess "Don't ask, Don't tell" works for the US Military?


6 posted on 10/07/2005 5:32:43 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: NYer

Meta-PING


7 posted on 10/07/2005 5:32:43 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Abathar
The Vatican will allow gay men into the priesthood if they can show they have been celibate for at least three years,

How are they going to prove it, ask the candidates about recent episodes of Queer Eye?

8 posted on 10/07/2005 5:32:55 AM PDT by evolved_rage (Just nitpicking.)
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To: Abathar
Dumb Question here:

"How can a Man possibly be Homosexual and Celibate at the same time [according to modern-day lifestyle examples found anywhere]???

9 posted on 10/07/2005 5:34:08 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: Abathar

This is a big mistake. In my opinion, a priest or pastor should be beyond reproach and question in this area.


10 posted on 10/07/2005 5:36:21 AM PDT by MBB1984
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To: brewcrew

You're right. Celibacy isn't the issue, chastity is, and we have loads of evidence that many gay priests are not chaste and are not ashamed of that. We need to clean out our seminaries and rectories now. I don't care if we lose half the total number of priests in America...that would be preferable to a priesthood filled with sexual deviants.


11 posted on 10/07/2005 5:36:44 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Abathar

I sure hope this isn't true. Did the Vatican back down so quickly? This is a terrible policy, uneforceable, and effectively gives the imprimatur to the whole secular concept of homosexuality as a state rather than a disorder and sin.


12 posted on 10/07/2005 5:37:05 AM PDT by livius
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To: Abathar

I have to say that Shep Smith made a great comment the other night when he asked "If they are celibate, why would their sexual orientation matter?"


13 posted on 10/07/2005 5:37:46 AM PDT by saveliberty (I think so, Brain, but if we give peas a chance, won't the lima beans feel left out?)
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To: MBB1984

bump for reading later


14 posted on 10/07/2005 5:37:59 AM PDT by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: ExcursionGuy84

My thoughts exactly. In my mind, one cannot be homosexual and celibate.


15 posted on 10/07/2005 5:38:04 AM PDT by zeebee
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To: Abathar
How can someone who does not know the difference between a man and a woman presume to teach me anything?

Homosexual priests are not just about sex. There surely is something seriously psychologically dysfunctional about a person who follows unnatural sexual desires specifically condemned by the religion he is supposed to uphold..
16 posted on 10/07/2005 5:38:39 AM PDT by R.W.Ratikal
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To: R.W.Ratikal

Very important point. Homosexuality was considered a grave disorder, and it was this, aside from the matter of the sinfulness of the practice, that disqualified men for the priesthood.


17 posted on 10/07/2005 5:41:59 AM PDT by livius
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To: jrny; NYer; wideawake; Salvation

Random Catholic pings. Do you suppose there is any truth to this, or is it just wishful thinking on the part of the Tablet, Corriere della Sera, etc.?


18 posted on 10/07/2005 5:46:47 AM PDT by livius
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To: ExcursionGuy84
let's ask this question: Are you hetrosexual or homosexual?
..... and you might ask, "How can a celebate person be either?" Society insinuates that you are one or the other.

I am not sure how they (Vatican) can expect a priest to "prove" 3 years of celebate life....but perhaps a statement from the individual would work since lying is pretty sinful as is homsexuality.

I think it is appropriate for celebate men, who might have a tendancy toward homosexuality, to be a full part of the Catholic Church.......as long as they do not promote or fall into the homosexual lifestyle.

19 posted on 10/07/2005 5:47:52 AM PDT by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: R.W.Ratikal

So right. And just WHAT is a homo priest going to teach regarding sex??


20 posted on 10/07/2005 5:49:00 AM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: zeebee
My thoughts exactly. In my mind, one cannot be homosexual and celibate.

There's more to being homosexual than acting out sexually. The Church teaches that God's design is that man and woman enjoy a sexual relationship, in the state of Holy Matrimony while open to procreation. Any other sexual desire, whether acted out or not is illicit. Someone who refuses to accept that as the ONLY proper and licit teaching on sexuality is not fit for the priesthood and is not a fit teacher or preacher.

21 posted on 10/07/2005 5:49:31 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Abathar

Aren't all Priests supposed to be celibate?


22 posted on 10/07/2005 5:50:01 AM PDT by CSM (When laws are written, they apply to ALL...Not just the yucky people you don't like. - HairOfTheDog)
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To: CSM

Aren't all Priests supposed to be celibate?
***
Yup...but many are not.


23 posted on 10/07/2005 5:52:18 AM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: Abathar

What the church needs is more gay priests. That will fix everything.


24 posted on 10/07/2005 5:54:29 AM PDT by BinaryBoy
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To: Abathar
The Vatican will allow gay men into the priesthood if they can show they have been celibate for at least three years

Proved HOW ?

Anybody thinks they join the priethood cause they have a Calling ought to be looking into LA swampland as an investment
25 posted on 10/07/2005 5:55:51 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: Abathar

I'm not Catholic, or even religious, but I don't think this is good policy. For one thing, the Bible takes a pretty strong opposing position, if that means anything.


26 posted on 10/07/2005 5:59:01 AM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: R.W.Ratikal
Worth repeating:

Homosexual priests are not just about sex. There surely is something seriously psychologically dysfunctional about a person who follows unnatural sexual desires specifically condemned by the religion he is supposed to uphold..

27 posted on 10/07/2005 6:00:54 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: livius; CSM
This is completely bogus.

"If they can show they have been celibate for at least three years."

No Vatican document would ever say this, because "celibate" means unmarried!

All candidates for the priesthood are supposed to be celibate!

If the idiots who made this article up meant "chaste" - how can you prove chastity in men?

It's impossible.

People with this inclination have objectively disordered affections. They're spiritually disabled and should never be ordained under any circumstances.

28 posted on 10/07/2005 6:01:24 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: wideawake
But it said the Vatican will ban men who "publicly manifest their homosexuality" or show an "overwhelming attraction" to homosexual culture "even if it is only intellectually."

Whoooo.. I am surprised. This in my opinion ENCOURAGES homosexuals to join the church. I don't like this... does not seem right somehow.

29 posted on 10/07/2005 6:06:14 AM PDT by ElPatriota (Let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: ExcursionGuy84

Ding Ding Ding... Let the man choose his prize....


30 posted on 10/07/2005 6:07:36 AM PDT by showme_the_Glory (No more rhyming, and I mean it! ..Anybody got a peanut.....)
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To: pgkdan
Someone who refuses to accept that as the ONLY proper and licit teaching on sexuality is not fit for the priesthood and is not a fit teacher or preacher.

Right On!!

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:12-14

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=20&verse=12&end_verse=14&version=9&context=context

31 posted on 10/07/2005 6:09:20 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: ElPatriota
I'm certain the story is bogus.
32 posted on 10/07/2005 6:11:10 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: brewcrew

Morning BC,
Are they on the crack pipe at the vatican? Letting the fox in the hen-house to guard the chickens?????????

Kennedy and kerry must have some relatives in the vatican.
Reality Is,
NSNR-CSAOTL


33 posted on 10/07/2005 6:11:20 AM PDT by No Surrender No Retreat
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To: Abathar

this is nothing but BS in the first degree


34 posted on 10/07/2005 6:12:33 AM PDT by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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To: showme_the_Glory
And I choose.....hmmmmmmm...lemme see....hmmmmmm...

A Proverbs 31 young woman with lovely physical features and a heart that yearns & burns for JESUS and HIS holiness & Righteousness..

...and who agrees to a strict Constitutionalist view of the 2nd Amendment.

35 posted on 10/07/2005 6:14:24 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: Abathar

Currently in the US there is one priest for every 4700 parishioners. If the 40% of priests said to be homosexual were removed, there would be one priest for every 11,000 parishioners.


36 posted on 10/07/2005 6:16:57 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: Abathar
Image hosted by TinyPic.com
37 posted on 10/07/2005 6:18:43 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: wideawake

how can you prove chastity in men?

castration? make the priests eunochs. problem solved.


38 posted on 10/07/2005 6:28:10 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: wideawake
I hope so...the thing is nowadays... I am not surprised of anything! Thanks.
39 posted on 10/07/2005 6:30:32 AM PDT by ElPatriota (Let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: Abathar
But if you are gay wouldn't in this day and age you have already publicly manifested your homosexuality and shown at least an intellectual attraction to homosexual culture? Just look at the cover photo on this week's Time showing a gay teen.
40 posted on 10/07/2005 6:40:33 AM PDT by The Great RJ (q)
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To: Abathar

Don't the same rules apply to homos as to straights? Priests are to be celibate, period.

A priest who puts his service to God above his own needs and desires is fine with me, no matter what his sexuality. Don't ask, don't tell, like the military.

Those who cannot or will not control sexual urges should choose another form of service.


41 posted on 10/07/2005 6:41:01 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?")
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To: Abathar

It is so over for the Vatican Hierarchy of the Catholic Church. They have no Courage and no Moral Compass.

Why not also say , after A Catholic Couple have been
divorced for three Years and haven't remarried They are free to marry again.

Makes about the same sense.

People who are homosexual do not think straight, that goes for homosexual priests too.

The term "Homosexual Priest" is an Oxymoron.


42 posted on 10/07/2005 6:51:39 AM PDT by chatham
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To: saveliberty
I have to say that Shep Smith made a great comment the other night when he asked "If they are celibate, why would their sexual orientation matter?"

How about if they were celibate but promoted homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle?

Being Jewish, this is really none of my business, but it seems crazy for the Church to invite gays into the priesthood.

43 posted on 10/07/2005 6:54:30 AM PDT by veronica ("clowns clones clowns/ it's raining clowns/snarling FR obsessed clones/ claws bared clowns"...)
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To: Abathar

putting a homo in with a bunch of men is like putting a fox in the hen house...
if these queers want to join a religious order, let them join a nunnery!


44 posted on 10/07/2005 7:02:03 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Abathar
The Corriere report said: "Candidates who show a homosexual tendency will not be allowed into the priesthood unless they can demonstrate that they have been able to remain chaste for at least three years."
No way. Queer Psyops.
45 posted on 10/07/2005 7:03:04 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Abathar
Dumb on so many levels, but I'll just stick with the title.

Homosexuality is an activity. If you're not doing it, you're not it.

Otherwise, all this is saying is that people who are tempted and don't yield can be priests -- which, at best, surely describes all priests. (Leaving aside all other issues wrt RCC/priesthood.)

Dan
Biblical Christianity BLOG

46 posted on 10/07/2005 7:03:34 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Abathar

putting a homo in with a bunch of men is like putting a fox in the hen house...
if these queers want to join a religious order, let them join a nunnery!


47 posted on 10/07/2005 7:04:06 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Abathar

oops, sorry for the dbl post...my pc must have hiccuped. :-)


48 posted on 10/07/2005 7:05:48 AM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Abathar
1st Cor 6:9

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

The effeminate is also described as catamite or soft and the abusers or themselves with mankind are also more commonly known as Sodomites or those who engage in sodomy.

Other passages which read about sodomy include:

Genesis 19:5-8; Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 18:22,23; 20:13,15,16; Deuteronomy 23:17; 27:21; Judges 19:22; 1 Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Romans 1:24,26,27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:9,10

IMHO, A good word study of 'perverse' by reading all verses so translated helps edify the understanding of this doctrine.

Isa 19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.

The existence of this perverse spirit in America or possibly the RCC is indicative of consequences from past unrepentant sinfulness, but is reversible by a return to God.

Considering the criterion for church leadership in Scripture, I see nothing outlandish in banning homosexuals from any position of church leadership.

On the contrary, those who are unrepentant and adversarial to all things holy would be consistent if they sought to mingle homosexuality with holiness in an effort to corrupt all things righteous.

For these reasons, IMHO, even if a previous homosexual repented and returned to God, his intent as a leader is the church will probably raise doubt on his credibility.

49 posted on 10/07/2005 7:09:18 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: saveliberty
"If they are celibate, why would their sexual orientation matter?"

The same reason that a person who lusts after a woman in his heart is guilty of adultery. A homosexual who merely abstains from the physical act, but refuses to change his heart, is living in sin as opposed to living with the mind of Christ, which is commanded of every believer. Those who teach are held to even higher criterion than mere obedience to His will.

50 posted on 10/07/2005 7:14:03 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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