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Can an Electron be in Two Places at the Same Time?
Max Planck Society ^ | 11 October 2005 | Staff

Posted on 10/12/2005 3:10:28 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: PatrickHenry

Thanks for the ping!


41 posted on 10/12/2005 6:46:06 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: PatrickHenry
This looks like a classic.

If I ever figure it out.

42 posted on 10/12/2005 6:52:05 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
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To: PatrickHenry
I cannot begin to say what they have measured without some additional information.

Was there a difference in the number of electrons striking the target and the number of electrons emitted? That is a fairly easy thing to measure.

I would like to know if there was a difference with and without the 2nd slit being closed.

Passing a stream of electrons through a pair of closely spaced slits and seeing an interference pattern similar to light would not be surprising as within that stream each electron would have some small effect on any other electrons near it, possibly pushing them to the side enough to go through the 2nd slit. All of this I have had to deal with in color CRT (picture tubes) construction.

To believe what they are saying would require understanding how 100 electrons could be emitted, some or all passing through 2 slits at the same time. Seems we would for a moment have more than 100 electrons and where did they come from?

As far as the duality, never liked that word and they may have seen too many episodes of Star Trek TNG. Duality was Counselor Troy's favorite word. New age mumbo jumbo.

43 posted on 10/12/2005 6:52:08 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (I have the biggest organ in my town {;o))
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To: R. Scott

You know, it's discussions (not the previous post specifically) like this that require the explanation of the postulates of quantum mechanics in the Freshman year of high school, instead of waiting to the sophmore/junior year for physics majors. Then we can just say that the electron is a quantum object and forget all of this wave/particle B.S.

The electron is a quantum system where the relative value of Planck's constant is large compared to the mutiplicand of momentum and distance. It is acting like a quantum system. We've had outstanding descriptions of this for the last 50 years. This experiment has done nothing but, once again, validate the accepted description for the umpteenth time. The electron is acting exactly like the math says it should. An electron is what it is and we can validate it's description down to 13 decimal places. There is no problem with independent reality here, and anyone who says there is is a COMPLETELY IGNORANT MORON!


44 posted on 10/12/2005 6:52:52 AM PDT by Netheron
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To: gridlock
Spelling correction: Heisenberg = Heisenberg.

You owe me two minutes of my life.

45 posted on 10/12/2005 6:54:09 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
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To: Netheron
You know, it's discussions (not the previous post specifically) like this that require the explanation of the postulates of quantum mechanics in the Freshman year of high school, instead of waiting to the sophmore/junior year for physics majors. Then we can just say that the electron is a quantum object and forget all of this wave/particle B.S.

From what I have seen of high school textbooks, the atom is still described as being composed of three particles – with electrons orbiting around the nucleus like mini-solar systems.
I do like the use of “quantum object”. It keeps the reader from trying to visualize them as either a particle or wave. I’ll have to keep that term in mind.
46 posted on 10/12/2005 7:06:17 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: R. Scott

Yeah, they should put pictures of electron orbitals next to the solar system one and say that we'll show how to derive them after the student has learned some Calculus.

It really p****s me off when journalists, and especially textbook writers, go on about how weird and mysterious some physics concepts are when the actual concepts have been non-controversial for decades in the physics literature. I admit it could be strange to a novice, but don't leave the impression that a little more background won't cure the metaphysical vertigo. Doesn't anyone know that Newtonian mechanics was just as weird for most people back then as Quantum mechanics is now? Heck, once someone REALLY knows how to do Classical mechanics, Quantum mechanics is a very small extension.


47 posted on 10/12/2005 7:20:16 AM PDT by Netheron
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To: Gumlegs

"He's a real nowhere man..."


48 posted on 10/12/2005 7:26:36 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: kanawa

I was gonna name such a particle a Kerrytron.


49 posted on 10/12/2005 7:27:27 AM PDT by dirtboy (Drool overflowed my buffer...)
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To: PatrickHenry
Use spatial engineering. Take the space that the electron is in, copy it, then move it.

There you go.

50 posted on 10/12/2005 7:30:55 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Netheron

Like trying to explain a black hole to the average high school graduate – or journalist.


51 posted on 10/12/2005 7:32:40 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: PatrickHenry

There is only One Electron!


52 posted on 10/12/2005 7:51:08 AM PDT by hang 'em (Commies, Nazis, Muslims: enemies of the Constitution; ref. Das Kapital, Mein Kampf, Koran)
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To: PatrickHenry
Einstein suspected [PH: shouldn't that be "doubted"?] that natural characteristics actually depend on the observer.

It wasn't just Einstein. This idea goes way back.

53 posted on 10/12/2005 8:49:46 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: hang 'em
And this One Electron knows all about his possibilities to be at one place or another.

With helium atoms it is a little bit more strange. Especially then you know that you have an emission rate about 1 atom per second and you still get your interference behind a double-slit .
54 posted on 10/12/2005 8:57:03 AM PDT by MHalblaub (Tell me in four more years (No, I did not vote for Kerry))
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To: Netheron
"Quantum mechanics is a very small extension." Nice pun, that.

Although to be fair tunneling is a fairly non-classical phenomenon.

55 posted on 10/12/2005 10:23:48 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: PatrickHenry

I still think Harriet should withdraw and evolution is bunk!


56 posted on 10/12/2005 10:25:12 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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bttt


57 posted on 10/12/2005 10:36:19 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Yes, the world does revolve around us. We picked the coordinate system.)
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To: Physicist
If an electron is in two places, it doesn't mean that there's no independent reality.

Agreed. People tend to try to read too much philosophy into the science of quantum mechanics. Wave-particle duality means just what it says; no explicit or implicit statements about "independent reality" lie within it.

58 posted on 10/12/2005 10:37:14 AM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
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To: Netheron
Heck, once someone REALLY knows how to do Classical mechanics, Quantum mechanics is a very small extension.

That is true (and easier said than done). The big leap (IMO)is accepting the probablistic nature of the wave function; once you do that, most of the problem is statistical-mechanical in nature.

59 posted on 10/12/2005 10:40:21 AM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
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To: kanawa

"The Kerry Effect"-------Zero + Zero= sumtin?


60 posted on 10/12/2005 10:56:16 AM PDT by litehaus
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