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.40 vs .45 LAW ENFORCEMENT USE

Posted on 10/26/2005 1:36:11 AM PDT by bramdawg

Going onto a local PD in los angeles area. Have heard stories both about .40's and .45's what is really the difference. I know comfort is important put I want to know if I will be safe with a .40 or if I should go with .45. I want the best gun for my job.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: California; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; bbgunnin; lyingtroll
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To: Tijeras_Slim; Eaker
Now ya done it.......:o)


101 posted on 10/26/2005 1:11:47 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: xsrdx
Eh..

I'm just commenting on a post early morning... A supposed police officer who does not know what caliber suits him.

I just got in and will have to read back the thread since this morning.

Anyhows, if your life depends on it, and you are entering a life or death situation, and do not know chit from shinola, and you have a badge (?) carry a wheel gun.

Learning to shoot and hit the mark would be helpful too.

He/she/it is most likely a troll anyhow, so why waste words.
102 posted on 10/26/2005 1:12:37 PM PDT by mmercier
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To: bramdawg; Squantos
.45.

Why? Because "hey, it's a .45!"

9mm effectiveness, unless an immediately vital-to-function structure is hit, is dependent upon bullet design and manufacture. The reason the .45ACP is used in Bullseye and other target competitions is that the wide bullet may clip the next nearest ring toward the bull's eye. Translation: being wider, making a wider permanent channel, it may contact vital structures rather than pass them closely. Also, big holes empty more blood faster, leading to rapid blood pressure loss, loss of motor skills and consciousness..equals, a stop.

The low operating pressure case is also rather comfortable to shoot. I find the .40 somewhat unpleasant to shoot, and suspect it may be the pressure, but haven't looked into it.

The 9mm's capacity is handy when dealing with attacking dogs, and a large consideration for LE is ammo resupply from other officers, in a bad situation. However, 9mm is not a famous "stopper," which is the name of the game, really. The ammunition the department allows for carry is also a consideration, and the .45 is the most forgiving. It is a heavy, wide, slow projectile, which in hunting use is the formula for success, if very high velocity is not available, or the animal is very tough. All things considered then, for the greatest range of effectiveness, including against the intoxicated, insane, and armored...a 230/200 grain bullet offers rather impressive impact, and should get more of the desired job done, with the least amount of shooting....a very good thing.
103 posted on 10/26/2005 1:13:49 PM PDT by PoorMuttly (No really.)
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To: Squantos

Oop! Posted the wrong picture! Here we go! :)

104 posted on 10/26/2005 1:15:05 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: PoorMuttly
The 9mm's capacity is handy when dealing with attacking dogs

Yorkies and the like...

105 posted on 10/26/2005 1:16:47 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

Man that's some real shootist history there Slim....Awesome.

Jerry Miculek faster than these two ?


106 posted on 10/26/2005 1:20:11 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: ExtremeUnction

I agree. Most of those that diss the 9mm do so only because they are concerned that others won't think their choice of gun is macho enough.

With the right load, it is up around the stopping power of the other auto loads. I'd carry a 9 any day (and do).


107 posted on 10/26/2005 1:21:56 PM PDT by 1L
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To: jec1ny
You can shoot someone with a 9mm or .40 cal and yes even the much vaunted .45 several times and not bring them down. But you hit someone with a 357 mag and promise you they will immediately desist in whatever anti-social behavior they were engaged in.

Not necessarily. Anything short of a phasor set to maximum and you have to factor in too many variables. Bigger and faster is always better, but there are no guarantees. There are documented cases of heart shots and shotgun blasts failing to bring down a suspect quickly.

108 posted on 10/26/2005 1:24:10 PM PDT by hopespringseternal (</i>)
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To: Squantos

I'd hazard a guess that Jerry is faster with major power factor ammo, as most of Ed's fast shooting was with .38 Specials. Without a doubt, it will be a long time before anyone matches Ed's feats shooting aerial targets with a handgun. He would flip a target into the air from the butt of a revolver while holding it by the barrel, do a road-agent spin, and hit the thing before it was four feet up.


109 posted on 10/26/2005 1:27:11 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

No kidding, I drew one on a large, feral Doberman with pup early this morning, and I was glad it ran away, and I didn't have to test it. This is what prompted my choice, and post today. It was loaded with wimpy 115gr. ball, not my usual 147gr. OSM HPs. I shot a garden-eating rabbit at 40 yards paced with 115s only last week, and it took 3 hits, I kid you not.


110 posted on 10/26/2005 1:27:12 PM PDT by PoorMuttly (No really.)
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To: PoorMuttly

That's one bad rabbit. I usually settle with garden munchers with a 8 3/8th inch Smith model 48 .22 Mag with a 2 power Burris on it. The only 9 I have right now is a Sig 225.


111 posted on 10/26/2005 1:29:58 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim; PoorMuttly

A "friend" just got a gig with Dept of State in DSS and the issue was a glock 17 using 147gr OSM......:o)

Stick to yer guns Dr Muttly !

I have seen IDF troops on a protective detail carrying a Beretta 70 or 71S .22 caliber in the past. They were of the right eye left eye skill level of course but I am , albeit a dyed in the wool 45 fan, of the belief that only HITS count , hits that are of the fast and furious form that allows me to get to my rifle or shotgun. As IMHO no handgun is capable of taking down instantly an agressor with one or two hits.

I have seen storekeepers who were involved in past robberies shoot and empty a magazine as fast as they could into the target......then watch a LEO double tap at the paper, sweep left and right for additional threat etc etc....

Folks that have been in a fight have their version of what worked at that moment, under certain conditions. Each lesson has to be weighed and considered when one carries day to day for personal defense.....

I tend to carry either a Glock 21, My 1911A1 or a Glock 30 these days.....all loaded w/ 230gr Federal Hydrashok's and stick with those . When wheeling in the boonies I carry my 329PD that is magnaported loaded with a 240gr Hornaday Hardcast.

Varied choices for the situation or threat level at hand .

Stay Safe YA'll


112 posted on 10/26/2005 1:33:41 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Squantos; PoorMuttly
Varied choices for the situation or threat level at hand .

I've got a nickle plated 3rd model Lemonsqueezer in 38 S&W for settling disputes at church picnics.

113 posted on 10/26/2005 1:40:11 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim; Squantos

The .22 mag is really explosive, and I guess that's why it is said to be extremely effectibe for slaughtering cattle with brain shots. I have shot rabbits (to control a large predator problem) through the chest with .22 LR, and was amazed at how tenacious they are. It seemed like I had hit them with a cannon, relative to their size, but they did not stop. That is a rather horrible situation to behold for a person who does not like to inflict suffering on any animal, death perhaps, but not suffering. Squantos may chime in with a similar report, if he feels like being flamed for flights of fantasy, or really miserable shooting.

Hey, I have been told that the .22 Mag. is inherently inaccurate. I have advised a relative to get a Ruger in that cartridge...since he bought a used Western holster with a lot of those rounds still in the loops, and wants something for fun shooting, as well as general farm utility, and defense against dogs and cougars. I suppose it would do "something" against the big 'n nasty...but.....!


114 posted on 10/26/2005 1:41:43 PM PDT by PoorMuttly (No really.)
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To: archy
...and was a lot more comfortable with it only after Lee Jurras introduced his line of 110-grain jacketed hollowpoint ammunition in the early 1970s.

And that would be the "Super-Vel" ammo that started all the high velocity, light bullet loads, correct?

I recall my dad doing some training and being impressed when the Colo State Patrol first issued those to him in place of the 158 gr round nose ammo. For a state trooper, those old rounds were worthless for dealing with fleeing suspects in automobiles. BTW, I now own the 4" Colt Python that was his issued duty gun at that time. Dad bought it when the CSP switched to Smith model 19s and gave it to me later.

115 posted on 10/26/2005 1:45:10 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: PoorMuttly

It's no more inaccurate than I am, which is no ringing endorsement. Off sandbags I can get 2 or so inch groups at 50 yards. I agree that many .22 LR rounds won't do the trick unless it's a headshot, especially the round nose or non-Stinger types so far as velocity is concerned.


116 posted on 10/26/2005 1:46:03 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

Man that is purdy....I think that was what that old lady in NOLA was holding when the LEO body slammed her in that video that was floating around here......

Careful Slim that is real close to what we call a BBQ Gun here in Texas !.......:o)

Yer slip is showin......LOL !

My sunday go to meeting gun is a Seecamp 32, engraved, pimped out with mother of pearl grips. It rides in the pocket easy and backs up my 1911A1 in the day runner bible bag. 230grs of scripture for sinners per se !


117 posted on 10/26/2005 1:46:17 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Squantos

Verrrrrrry innnnnteresting. Observe, students, that he says "a" Glock......and "MY" 1911 .45.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Take notes now.


118 posted on 10/26/2005 1:48:20 PM PDT by PoorMuttly (No really.)
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To: PoorMuttly
I really like the .22 magnum but in a rifle. It has a lot of blast and noise in a pistol for not much more power.

I think I read some time ago that the .22 mag was the most popular barrel for the TC Contender, which is a little surprising.

A .22 LR does real well in a four or six inch barrel but after maybe 18 inches doesn't get any faster. The .22 mag likes the long barrels.

119 posted on 10/26/2005 1:48:55 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Squantos
What Texans consider a BBQ gun, we describe as a Taos Fondue gun. :P

230grs of scripture for sinners per se !

You're like that crazy preacher in "Will Penny" ain't cha?

120 posted on 10/26/2005 1:49:12 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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