This below can now apply to Rove and Libby and the whole conservative movement. Being conservative is NOT a crime! And it will NOT be criminalized!
Posted on 10/27/2005 2:20:13 PM PDT by Carl/NewsMax
For better or worse, Leakgate Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald has brought a new legal standard to Washington, D.C. - where he is said to be readying indictments against top White House officials based on false statements they made to investigators about a crime that may have never happened.
Though such a prosecution by Fitzgerald could certainly be legally justified, allegations similar to those currently under consideration for indictment - as well as other potential crimes that are far more serious - were seldom if ever prosecuted during the 1990s.
Here's a short list of potential criminal violations for which prosecutors decided not to file indictments during the Clinton administration.
• Lying under oath to a federal judge - a crime U.S. District Court Judge Susan Webber Wright determined that President Clinton committed in the Paula Jones sexual harasssment case. Legal resolution: No criminal indictment.
• Lying under oath to a federal grand jury - as Independent Counsel Ken Starr found President Clinton had done in the Monica Lewinsky investigation. Legal resolution: No criminal indictment.
• Lying under oath both to Congress and to federal investigators - as Independent Counsel Robert Ray concluded that Mrs. Clinton had done in the Travel Office probe. Legal resolution: No indictment
• Hiding evidence from Starr's Whitewater investigation - as the Senate Banking Committee concluded Mrs. Clinton did in the case of her missing Rose Law firm billing records. Legal resolution: No criminal referral, no indictments.
• Trading presidential pardons for finanical contributions - which President Clinton allegedly did in the Pardongate case. Legal resolution: No indictments.
• Trading presidential clemency for votes in a federal election - as President Clinton allegedly did with village elders in New Square, NY - which backed Mrs. Clinton's 2000 Senate candidacy 1400 to 12. Legal resolution: No indictments.
• Nuclear missile guidance technology allegedly traded by the Clinton adminsitration to China in exchange for campaign contributions. Legal resolution: No indictments.
• The Illegal gathering of confidential FBI files on political opponents - as the Clinton White House did in the Filegate case. Legal resolution: No indictments.
• Misusing the IRS to audit political opponents - as the White House allegedly did with numerous conservative organizations, as well as with witnesses against the Clintons. Legal resolution: No indictments.
• Hiring private detectives to intimidate and/or smear potential witnesses in the Starr investigation. Legal resolution: No indictments.
• Illegally leaking Linda Tripp's confidential personnel file to the press. Legal resolution: No indictments.
Too bad Patrick Fitzgerald was otherwise engaged when all of the above transpired.
• Lying under oath both to Congress and to federal investigators - as Independent Counsel Robert Ray concluded that Mrs. Clinton had done in the Travel Office probe. Legal resolution: No indictment
• Hiding evidence from Starr's Whitewater investigation - as the Senate Banking Committee concluded Mrs. Clinton did in the case of her missing Rose Law firm billing records. Legal resolution: No criminal referral, no indictments.
Excellent list and thanks for making it.
We may need to refer to it early and often.
FR.
Bump for later read.
Nice post.
One thing I'd point out is that under existing laws, I believe a President may not be indicted criminally. So Clinton wasnt indicted probably because of that.
But he should have been convicted by the Senate after the impeachment.
Someday republicans might learn to fight back. This is my biggest complaint with the republican party. They are too damn nice. They sit there and take it while they get slapped around by the schoolyard bully democrats.
Many of Clinton's crimes are well known, yet even now they go unpunished. Fitz snarls and foams at the mouth like a rabid dog over damning allegations of legal behavior, but he and all other federal prosecutors ignore the criminal elephant in the room named Bubba. Pathetic.
Sovereign immunity for acts as President...and the power to pardon himself. However, if the President were to commit murder, rape, other some other state crime, I see nothing that would prevent him from being indicted and prosecuted.
Everybody needs to sit tight and see what Fitz actually does. We just don't know. Therefore this is a bit preamature. You expect this of the liberal press, but not the Conservatives. "Hold fire to you see the whites of their eyes"
Splel Chcek is yur freidn.
I haven't heard ONE WORD from Fitz or his spokes-persons.
ping
Ann Coulter was saying on Sean that she thinks there will be indictments because that explains the pulling of the Miers nomination.
God it all seems so long ago, doesn't it? I used to have all the arguments at the tip of my tongue..but they're gone now.
I think you're correct about indicting a sitting president.
like it or not, dems get to play be a different set of rules. dont ask me why.
And now that Clinton is out of office, he still has executive priviledge covering him unless the current President orders it lifted or something to that effect....
It won't happen unless Billy Bob goes OJ on someone....
But the Republicans are the "culture of corruption", to quote one of the libs more popular current mantras. And with the MSM as co-conpsirators, that perception is prevalent and growing.
Welcome to Aldus Huxley's world.
OK, you're right there. I'm only joining in on the assumptions. I would love to be proven wrong.
Really? I guess I didn't realize he STILL retains executive priviledge after leaving office.
Because the media is nearly 100% in collusion with them. They share the same hatred for the United States.
he does...
and actually I think it's the Senate that lifts it....
But a Presidential pardon would do the same.
Ford didn't have to pardon Nixon, if the Senate didn't go after him which was a 50/50 guess.
Of course had he not pardoned Nixon, we may never have had Carter as President, and then maybe no Reagan....
It would have been interesting...
If I am wrong someone please tell me....
What a crock. Republicans get indicted for things that the clinton administraton got a pass one, and there's not even any evidence to substantiate the Republican indictments, but there was lots of evidence to support the clinton admin indictments, and they never came. Typical liberal pass. I guess even a supposed fair minded guy like Fitzgerald feels the need to justify the time and money he's spent. If he indicts Rove and Libby and not miller, wilson, or plame that is proof of a liberal slanted investigation and jury, because the three of them are more obviously involved in wrongdoing than Rove or Libby have ever been. This is a crock!
Actually, if Rove and/or Libby are indicted....their attorneys..and President Bush should just provide this list to the judge....case closed.
How about a President's wife?
The Senators who leaked classified information should be added to the list. Reid exposed raw data from FBI files (that he should not have seen). Kerry exposed something and I don't remember who spilt the beans on tracking Bin Laden from his cell phone. Can someone fill in the blanks.
The Republicans sit around and take it because they have BB balls.
Don't count your indictments just yet. Who knows where Fitzgerald has poked and prodded? All the reports in MSM are predicated on the assumption that, naturally, any correct-thinking person would be morally obligated to indict the Bushies.
But just suppose Fitzgerald is a decent, honorable man, as many claim him to be.
Well, in that case, Wilson and Plame might equally be the targets.
I'll concede there's no small amount of wishful thinking in this scenario, but once you strip the MSM bias and spin from what little they know officially, Wilson and Plame remain potential targets.
hey, but what do I know? I bet against the White Sox!
Sure..Coulter WOULD say that....I guess she thinks that Miers and Bush are TOO STUPID to listen to Frist, when he says the votes won't be there...
OR Bush is so crooked, that he is using a "distraction"?
Like someone else has said, everything the Democrats have been accusing the Republicans about, they have already done or are doing to this day, everything!
Unfortunately, the info about bin Laden's satellite phone came through prosecutor Duncan Fitzgerald (any relation?) in open court:
http://www.nationalreview.com/17dec01/bork121701.shtml
Oh,. my goodness....on Chrissy Matthews show....Norah O'Donnell is talking about the possibility that Rove/Libby could stay on staff even if indicted...
Her reasoning: There hasn't been a sitting official of the White House indicted since the Grant Administration...that they "offenders" resign...rather than being indicted while in employ of a POTUS...taking a chance of "tainting" the White House...
Chrissy asked Evan Thomas if he thought there was validity to O'Donnell's thoughts...Thomas said that "things are so loose" in the White House, "that probably NO ONE has told them that they need to resign....and that they probably will, either late tonight...or early in the morning, BEFORE the indictments come out"....
LOL...Matthews and his guests are totally baffled about why Rove and Libby haven't quit yet...they all have question marks above their heads....AND they seem very, very concerned that one or both might actually STAY until/unless proven guilty...........lol
Isn't this a indictment of the ineptness Ken Starr more than anything else?
I have no doubt that you are right on...
Agree completely - And I think I said exactly this within my first post - I think went on to give my take on the situation (with premising it with the fact that none of us actually KNOW what is going to happen).
Fitzgerald is going to do the right thing,
in his eyes,and indict on perjury or obstruction.
He`ll do this to protect his reputation.
One thing he will not do is go after the real story.The CIA,Plame going after a sitting President.Using a willing dupe and fellow traveller (Joe Wilson) to plant a false story on Niger/Iraq yellowcake uranium and enticing the WH to entrap themselves trying to tell the truth.
I sure hope that's right. This stinks of another hit piece criminalization for being Conservative, like with DeLay. I mean, when Victoria Toensing who wrote the Intelligence Identities Protection Act comes out and flatly says that if Rove and Libby are indicted under it, or the 1914 espionage act it's a total abuse of their intended use, that kinda says it all. Especially since the whole point of this is the outing of valerie plame who any objective person would admit that Vanity Fare, the 1999 Who's Who list, her "SPY" liscense plate, and 2000 donation to Gore which said she's a Covert CIA agency, etc so on, pretty well outed her before Rove or Libby were even in a place to. This is nothing but a CROCK! 100%
Yeah really. Might they be staying on and not resigning because they know that haven't done a flipping thing wrong? I sure believe that's the case. If they know this is a joke, and they are innocent, I hope they refuse to resign, stating clearly that they have committed no wrong doing, and they will continue to do their jobs for Bush and Cheney, until they are acquitted of the bogus charges, and proven innocent.
Well, if that's the truth, don't you think that will come out in the defense case (short of Presidential pardons that is)?
First person I call as a witness,
Joe Wilson himself.
This below can now apply to Rove and Libby and the whole conservative movement. Being conservative is NOT a crime! And it will NOT be criminalized!
You and me both, brutha!!!
I hadn't heard anywhere that either Wilson or Plame testified before the Grand Jury.
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